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Thread: Student suspended for suggesting that carry of weapons could curb school shootings.

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    Hamline University has suspended a student after he sent an e-mail suggesting that the Virginia Tech massacre might have been stopped if students had been allowed to carry concealed weapons on campus.

    http://thefire.org/index.php/article/8475.html

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Just when you think you have heard it all...........
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    God help him if he would have drawn a picture of a gun, too

    On the plus side, though, at least this story is bringing more attention to the issue than just a few e-mails, quietly deleted, would have done.

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    Wow! You are witnessing petty tyrants in action, here, folks! They want to make him submit to a mental evaluation before they let him return to school. Don't do it, kid!


    October 10, 2007

    FIRE Press Release

    ST. PAUL, Minn., October 10, 2007—Hamline University has suspended a student after he sent an e-mail suggesting that the Virginia Tech massacre might have been stopped if students had been allowed to carry concealed weapons on campus. Student Troy Scheffler is now required to undergo a mandatory “mental health evaluation” before being allowed to return to school. Scheffler, who was suspended without due process just two days after sending the e-mail, has turned to the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education (FIRE) for help.

    “Hamline’s punishment of Troy Scheffler is severe, unfair, and apparently unwarranted,” FIRE President Greg Lukianoff said. “Peacefully advocating for students’ ability to carry a concealed weapon as a response to the Virginia Tech shootings may be controversial, but it simply does not justify ordering a mandatory psychological evaluation.”

    On April 17, 2007, Hamline’s Vice President of Student Affairs, David Stern, sent an e-mail to the campus community offering extra counseling for Hamline students in the wake of the Virginia Tech shootings. Later that day, Scheffler responded directly to Stern, arguing that Virginia Tech’s ban on concealed weapons was part of the problem and advocating that Hamline eliminate its similar policies. Scheffler also wrote that the university’s diversity programs may have angered some in the student body, himself included.

    On April 19, 2007, Hamline University President Linda Hanson e-mailed the campus community again to address the tragedy at Virginia Tech. Scheffler responded directly to Hanson and again criticized the university’s concealed weapons ban, academic standards, financial policies, and the university’s efforts to promote diversity.

    Hanson replied to Scheffler on Friday, April 20, offering him a chance to meet with university personnel to discuss his views the following week. Yet on Monday, April 23, before Scheffler was even able to respond to Hanson’s invitation, he received a hand-delivered letter from Dean of Students Alan Sickbert notifying him that his e-mails to Stern and Hanson were “deemed to be threatening and thus an alleged violation of the Hamline University Judicial Code.”

    Sickbert’s letter also informed Scheffler that he was being placed on immediate “interim suspension” that could not be lifted unless he agreed to a “mental health evaluation” by a licensed mental health professional.

    FIRE wrote to President Hanson on May 29, 2007, vehemently opposing the sanctions against Scheffler, since neither of Scheffler’s e-mails even came close to meeting the legal definition of a “threat.” FIRE also pointed out that Hamline maintains a “Freedom of Expression and Inquiry” policy that encourages the public expression of opinions and the freedom to examine and discuss all questions of interest. FIRE wrote that “it is difficult to reconcile these admirable commitments to freedom of expression with Hamline’s hasty actions against Scheffler.”

    FIRE also informed Hamline administrators that subjecting Scheffler to a mandatory psychological evaluation poses a grave threat to liberty at Hamline. FIRE wrote, “A psychological evaluation, to be overseen by a Hamline administrator, is one of the most invasive and disturbing intrusions upon Scheffler’s individual right to private conscience imaginable. Because Scheffler has shown no proclivity toward violence and has made no threatening comments, this psychological evaluation seeks to assess his political opinions….”

    Hanson responded to FIRE on June 11, 2007, claiming that there were several reasons for Scheffler’s suspension, including the e-mails, his failure to meet with administrators when invited, and “critical input from various members of the Hamline community.” FIRE addressed each of those claims in another letter to Hanson on September 17, 2007. Not only did FIRE reiterate that Scheffler’s e-mails were not threats, but it also pointed out that Scheffler was given less than one full business day before his suspension to respond to the invitation from school officials to discuss his views. FIRE also noted that the alleged information from “various members of the Hamline community,” which supposedly played a role in determining Scheffler’s sanctions, had not even been revealed to Scheffler himself, denying him the right to defend himself or present his side of the story. In a September 28, 2007, response, Hamline’s attorneys refused to address FIRE’s concerns that Scheffler has been denied his due process rights.

    “How can Scheffler hope to defend himself when Hamline refuses even to tell him what he is accused of doing?” FIRE Vice President Robert Shibley asked. “Hamline’s policies promise freedom of expression and basic due process to its students, but this case brings the sincerity of those promises into serious question. FIRE calls on President Hanson to either admit that the suspension and order for a ‘mental health evaluation’ had no justifiable basis or give Scheffler all the information he needs to respond to the charges against him.”

    FIRE is a nonprofit educational foundation that unites civil rights and civil liberties leaders, scholars, journalists, and public intellectuals from across the political and ideological spectrum on behalf of individual rights, due process, freedom of expression, academic freedom, and rights of conscience at our nation’s colleges and universities. FIRE’s efforts to preserve liberty across America can be viewed at thefire.org.

    CONTACT:
    Robert Shibley, Vice President, FIRE: 215-717-3473; robert@thefire.org
    Linda Hanson, President, Hamline University: 651-523-2202; lhanson@hamline.edu
    David Stern, Vice President for Academic and Student Affairs, Hamline University: 651‑523-2088; dstern02@hamline.edu

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    Cue-Ball wrote:
    Hamline University has suspended a student after he sent an e-mail suggesting that the Virginia Tech massacre might have been stopped if students had been allowed to carry concealed weapons on campus.

    http://thefire.org/index.php/article/8475.html
    I like the part where the university refered the whole matter to their attorneys. I think they know they screwed up and are trying to hide.

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    Another article on this from WorldNetDaily.com:

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=58082



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    They kinda glossed over this part, but I'd be willing to bet this had a lot more to do with his trouble than the gun suggestion.

    Scheffler also wrote that the university’s diversity programs may have angered some in the student body, himself included.
    Let's see..... "I hate (blacks, jews, asians, illegal immigrants, etc.) and I think you should let me carry a gun on campus."

    If he phrased it anything like that, he got exactly what he was asking for. He should never have mixed the two issues in the same letter.

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    mzbk2l wrote:
    They kinda glossed over this part, but I'd be willing to bet this had a lot more to do with his trouble than the gun suggestion.

    Scheffler also wrote that the university’s diversity programs may have angered some in the student body, himself included.

    Let's see..... "I hate (blacks, jews, asians, illegal immigrants, etc.) and I think you should let me carry a gun on campus."


    If he phrased it anything like that, he got exactly what he was asking for. He should never have mixed the two issues in the same letter.
    Where did you get that from? He could have just as likely said that there are not enough (blacks, jews, asians, illegal immigrants, etc.) and I think all of us need to be able to defend ourselves.

    Disagree with those in power and you are a nut. Disagree while having the ability to defend yourself and you are a threat to society who must be re-educated.

    LoveMyCountry

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    LoveMyCountry wrote:
    mzbk2l wrote:
    They kinda glossed over this part, but I'd be willing to bet this had a lot more to do with his trouble than the gun suggestion.

    Scheffler also wrote that the university’s diversity programs may have angered some in the student body, himself included.

    Let's see..... "I hate (blacks, jews, asians, illegal immigrants, etc.) and I think you should let me carry a gun on campus."


    If he phrased it anything like that, he got exactly what he was asking for. He should never have mixed the two issues in the same letter.
    Where did you get that from? He could have just as likely said that there are not enough (blacks, jews, asians, illegal immigrants, etc.) and I think all of us need to be able to defend ourselves.

    Disagree with those in power and you are a nut. Disagree while having the ability to defend yourself and you are a threat to society who must be re-educated.

    LoveMyCountry
    Thank you. You took the words right out of my mouth. The left always reads between the lines and draws the wrong conclusons or twists them to fit their own ideal of Utopia.

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    It looks like he used his first amendment freedoms to discuss the second amendment. That’s entirely too much freedom for any one student. :quirky



    What a school full of hypocrites.

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    mzbk2l wrote:
    They kinda glossed over this part, but I'd be willing to bet this had a lot more to do with his trouble than the gun suggestion.

    Scheffler also wrote that the university’s diversity programs may have angered some in the student body, himself included.
    Let's see..... "I hate (blacks, jews, asians, illegal immigrants, etc.) and I think you should let me carry a gun on campus."

    If he phrased it anything like that, he got exactly what he was asking for. He should never have mixed the two issues in the same letter.
    Even if someone did say things like that,I have the right to hate anybody I want and express that right in a verbal or written maner, as well as the right to carry a weapon to defend myself. I don't see why you would say hegot what he deserved. I'm not saying the student said these things, my point is he should be able to say anything he want's, as long as he does not threaten or doesharm to anyone.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    mzbk2l wrote:
    They kinda glossed over this part, but I'd be willing to bet this had a lot more to do with his trouble than the gun suggestion.

    Scheffler also wrote that the university’s diversity programs may have angered some in the student body, himself included.
    Let's see..... "I hate (blacks, jews, asians, illegal immigrants, etc.) and I think you should let me carry a gun on campus."

    If he phrased it anything like that, he got exactly what he was asking for. He should never have mixed the two issues in the same letter.
    I had those thoughts when I was reading the article, too. I guess I just can't reconcile in my mind how a suggestion to follow the Constitution could be perceived as a threat. But then again, maybe that is just how crazy the anti's have gotten.

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    Do any of you who are disagreeing with me have any idea what he wrote in the letter?

    NO. You've simply decided that if he supports guns on campus, he must be the sane one and everyone else is wrong.

    NEWS FLASH: He could be as crazy as a loon. We don't know without seeing the letter.

    My point in my little made-up sentence from his letter was simply that he could have said anything. Maybe the school had a legit reason for asking for a mental eval; none of us know, because we didn't see the letter.

    The article posted by Tomahawk did a find job of turning it into a gun rights issue, when it may well have been a "threats against minorities issue."

    I'm not going to off blindly supporting the guy until I know if he deserves my support.

    And, by the way, not only do I support guns on campus, I carried mine frequently while I was in school. Backpacks are handy accessories, aren't they?

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    mzbk2l wrote:
    The article posted by Tomahawk did a find job of turning it into a gun rights issue
    This is opencarry.org. Expect most threads to being about gun rights

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    mzbk2l wrote:
    The article posted by Tomahawk did a find job of turning it into a gun rights issue, when it may well have been a "threats against minorities issue."
    The article posted by Tomahawk is the article linked to in the OP.

    According to that (the article in the OP) this student was suspended for advocating the bearing of arms on campus. Sounds like a gun rights issue to me.

    If you have information to the contrary, besides for that one small line, please post it.

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    I'd say it also might be useful to bear in mind the current media situation. Civil rights are so 40 years ago in the media world. The current craze in the media is showing how evil guns are in the hands of college students. It would be very prudent to suspect a media spin. A student makes threats against minorities? Big deal. Been there, done that. A student wants to do another Virginia Tech? That'll get people to read/watch/listen.

    Once again, though, the student probably was the victim of militant anti-gunnism. But I see nothing wrong in mzbk2l's healthy questioning of the media.

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    Two of Shefflers' letters are linked for viewing. He's not being politically correct by any means but I dont see a loon..

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    StrictlySig wrote:
    Two of Shefflers' letters are linked for viewing. He's not being politically correct by any means but I dont see a loon..
    Whoops, I didn't even realize that there were links. I just assume that all hyperlinked words in an otherwise text document are annoying pop-up ads.

    So, reading those, I can't find any threat, or anything even remotely threatening. He's a horrible persuasive writer and isn't going to win a debate anytime soon, but that's obviously not worthy of suspension.

    Makes me glad that I resisted the urge to send reply e-mails to all the Virginia Tech ******** that my New York-located Ivy League school sent out. Instead I just went target shooting with the good 'ole .44.

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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    God help him if he would have drawn a picture of a gun, too

    On the plus side, though, at least this story is bringing more attention to the issue than just a few e-mails, quietly deleted, would have done.
    God couldn't help him....he was at a religious school. God rules there.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Tess wrote:
    imperialism2024 wrote:
    God help him if he would have drawn a picture of a gun, too

    On the plus side, though, at least this story is bringing more attention to the issue than just a few e-mails, quietly deleted, would have done.
    God couldn't help him....he was at a religious school. God rules there.
    Hmm... better petition Athena instead, then.

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