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Leo always reminds us that not all gun owners are good guys

Kevin108

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http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/10/08/wisconsin.shooting

Deputy fired 30 shots from rifle in killing 6, officials say

CRANDON, Wisconsin (CNN) -- An off-duty sheriff's deputy used a police-style AR-15 rifle to kill six people at an early morning party in a small Wisconsin town, officials said Monday.Twenty-year-old Tyler Peterson had gone to the party early Sunday to make amends with his ex-girlfriend, a friend of Peterson's told The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.
Peterson lost control after people called him a "worthless pig," Mike Kegley told the paper.
Peterson left and got a police-style AR-15 rifle from his truck, forced his way back into the apartment and fired about 30 rounds at about 2:45 a.m. (3:45 a.m. ET). Six people were killed; one person survived and is hospitalized, Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen said at a Monday news conference.
Peterson was killed in a shootout with law officers Sunday afternoon after negotiations for his surrender failed, officials said. The town's mayor said Tyler was killed by a SWAT team sniper.
The dead and wounded were all students or graduates of Crandon High School, and Peterson was a graduate of the school, which has a little more than 300 students.
Witnesses said the victims ranged in age from 14 to 20, and one was apparently Peterson's former girlfriend.
Peterson's family, in a statement read by Bill Farr, a pastor, expressed condolences to the victim's relatives and said they could not find any reason for the killings.

"We are grieving for your losses. We are very sorry for what has happened. This huge tragedy has deeply affected everyone, including us. We also feel a tremendous amount of guilt and shame for the horrible acts Tyler committed. This is not the Tyler we knew and loved," the statement read.
Jenny Stahl said her daughter, Lindsey, was the youngest victim.
video.gif
Watch the victim's mom describe her grief »
"I don't want to believe it. I'm waiting for somebody to wake me up," she said. "She's only 14 -- she'll be 15 next month; she's just starting to live. And the sad thing is who killed her -- a cop. Cops are supposed to always protect you, I thought, and it's one who took my daughter and how many other people's lives."
It was the high school's homecoming weekend.
Friends of the victims said Peterson also worked part time as a Crandon police officer.
Residents near the scene of the shooting told the Associated Press it was hard to accept that a police officer was the shooter.
"The first statement we said to each other was, 'How did he get through the system?' " David Franz told the AP. "How do they know somebody's background, especially that young? It is disturbing, to say the least."
The town's schools were closed Monday, with grief counselors available to students, said Superintendent Richard Peters.
"This was the kind of scenario where every small town in the USA says, 'This could never happen here,' " Peters said.
Crandon, a town of about 2,000 people, is 220 miles north of Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
Crandon Mayor Gary Bradley said the town will work together to get over the tragedy.
"There's a lot of people weeping and gnashing their teeth and the emotions are very raw right now," Bradley said. "But we'll rebuild brick by brick."
Forest County Sheriff Keith Van Cleve called the situation "very difficult" for his deputies and the community.
Karly Johnson, 16, told the AP she knew the shooter.
"He was nice. He was an average guy -- normal. You wouldn't think he could do that," Johnson said, adding that Peterson had helped her in a class and had graduated with her brother, according to the AP.
The state attorney general's office will investigate the case, Van Cleve said.
Kevin St. John, a spokesman for the state Department of Justice, said the agency's criminal investigation unit routinely investigates cases of a "statewide or significant nature."

art.peterson.wtmj.jpg
 

Renegade

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Not that I have anything against the thousands of fine LEOs out there doing the right thing for the right reason...but:

It is my opinion (no facts at this point) that LEO have a much higher probability of actually being criminals as compared to regular civilians. What I mean to say is that given one thousand randomly selected LEOs and and equal number of randomly selected civilians - there would be more LEOs that have been charged/convicted or crimes per capita as compared to civilians.

Fact: law enforcement attracts a narrow range of persons with specific interests, habits, and character traits as compared to the general population.

Fact: this "group" as compared to the general population, has either a higher potential to commit crimes or a lower one.

Fact: this same group may arrive to duty with the best of intentions but after being exposed to the worst in our society their view of the world becomes blurred. Doing something "a little bad" is nothing compared to what they see routinely. For normal civilians who rarely see anything bad, "a little bad" may seem like a big deal.

Can anyone point to any studies that deal with this issue?
 

Doug Huffman

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Kevin108 wrote:
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/10/08/wisconsin.shooting

Deputy fired 30 shots from rifle in killing 6, officials say

The town's mayor said Tyler was killed by a SWAT team sniper.
Later reports have his four wounds as self-inflicted.

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought ot be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA/GOP KMA$$
 

paramedic70002

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Doug Huffman wrote:
Kevin108 wrote:
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/10/08/wisconsin.shooting

Deputy fired 30 shots from rifle in killing 6, officials say

The town's mayor said Tyler was killed by a SWAT team sniper.
Later reports have his four wounds as self-inflicted.

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought ot be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA/GOP KMA$$
Is that like someone falling on their kitchen knife 4 times, or did he have a select fire weapon?
 

Doug Huffman

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paramedic70002 wrote:
Is that like someone falling on their kitchen knife 4 times, or did he have a select fire weapon?
My first response to this event's telling by the lamestream media was that it is the first time an AR-15 rifle did not have the 'assault' epithet attached - evidently it wasn't select fire or rogue cops are allowed by the media to have such.

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA/GOP KMA$$
 

Highlander

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Renegade wrote:
Fact: law enforcement attracts a narrow range of persons with specific interests, habits, and character traits as compared to the general population.

Fact: this "group" as compared to the general population, has either a higher potential to commit crimes or a lower one.

Fact: this same group may arrive to duty with the best of intentions but after being exposed to the worst in our society their view of the world becomes blurred. Doing something "a little bad" is nothing compared to what they see routinely. For normal civilians who rarely see anything bad, "a little bad" may seem like a big deal.

Can anyone point to any studies that deal with this issue?
Are these actual "facts" or your opinions?
 

rchjr

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Renegade wrote:
Not that I have anything against the thousands of fine LEOs out there doing the right thing for the right reason...but:

It is my opinion (no facts at this point) that LEO have a much higher probability of actually being criminals as compared to regular civilians. What I mean to say is that given one thousand randomly selected LEOs and and equal number of randomly selected civilians - there would be more LEOs that have been charged/convicted or crimes per capita as compared to civilians.

Fact: law enforcement attracts a narrow range of persons with specific interests, habits, and character traits as compared to the general population.

Fact: this "group" as compared to the general population, has either a higher potential to commit crimes or a lower one.

Fact: this same group may arrive to duty with the best of intentions but after being exposed to the worst in our society their view of the world becomes blurred. Doing something "a little bad" is nothing compared to what they see routinely. For normal civilians who rarely see anything bad, "a little bad" may seem like a big deal.

Can anyone point to any studies that deal with this issue?
I'm assuming you have statistics to validate your assumptions? With out statistics they are just that, assumptions or opinions.
 

sjhipple

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<sarcasm>This is why citizens should go up to any cop they see carrying a gun and ask to see his license, then call 9-11 to make sure he's not wanted. You never know. </sarcasm>
 

HankT

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Renegade wrote:
Fact: law enforcement attracts a narrow range of persons with specific interests, habits, and character traits as compared to the general population.

Fact: this "group" as compared to the general population, has either a higher potential to commit crimes or a lower one.

How is it a "fact?"

And what do you mean by "potential to commit crimes?"

There would seem to be three possibilities:

1. The LE group has a "higher potential to commit crimes" than the general population.

2. The LE group has a lower "potential to commit crimes" than the general population.

3. The LE group has a "potential to commit crimes" thatdoes not (statistically) differ fromthe general population.

How do you know it is either lower or higher? How is it a fact? What the heck is "potential to commit crimes?"
 

Doug Huffman

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For a start, cop hires are a sample of a population, "regular civilians," that includes criminals. The OP was "either a higher potential to commit crimes or a lower one." that seems to effectively exclude the middle. QED

If the population is defined as not including criminals, then the likelyhood of criminality of the population and the sample might approach.

Further, the OP's statement "law enforcement attracts a narrow range of persons with specific interests, habits, and character traits as compared to the general population." is a naive statement of 'self-selection' and probably accurate without the too precise and undefined "narrow."

But I'll withold further comment, waiting for someone here, I don't recall who, that posts of being familiar with "probability analysis" or some such. I'm just a retired neutron mechanic and not qualified in some eyes to 'think out loud.'

It is amusing to read the retreat to a demand for "facts" in this blizzard of base opinion. The only value in opinion comes from the effort in its development and exposition. Some here don't even bother to spell or attempt standard grammar.

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA/GOP KMA$$ I think HenrieTTa may also.
 

XCon

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He had problems and his agency overlooked his situations. Often times people join the force for power and respect that they couldnt get from public. When there is too much power, they would start to abuse the power and ultimately they will end up being killed.
 

LEO 229

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This is a citizen that shot and killed several people because he "lost control after people called him a "worthless pig" and that is all.

He was employed as a cop and was off duty at the time. This does not mean that cops go out and kill people on duty.

As with any "citizen"... murders happen.

Renegade wrote: It is my opinion (no facts at this point) that LEO have a much higher probability of actually being criminals as compared to regular civilians. What I mean to say is that given one thousand randomly selected LEOs and and equal number of randomly selected civilians - there would be more LEOs that have been charged/convicted or crimes per capita as compared to civilians.

Fact: law enforcement attracts a narrow range of persons with specific interests, habits, and character traits as compared to the general population.

Fact: this "group" as compared to the general population, has either a higher potential to commit crimes or a lower one.

Fact: this same group may arrive to duty with the best of intentions but after being exposed to the worst in our society their view of the world becomes blurred. Doing something "a little bad" is nothing compared to what they see routinely. For normal civilians who rarely see anything bad, "a little bad" may seem like a big deal.


What you post as fact is total BS!

Fact #1 This could not be farther from the truth! The LEO profession attracts people from all walks of life. They are so different in so many ways.

Fact #2 How can the LEO group have aHigher AND Lower potential to commit crime? This it moronic! That is like says my car is expensiveand cheep at the same time.

Fact #3 The LEO sees the bad people every day. His view is not blurred as you suggest.. It opens your eyes to how bad some people canbeand how many criminalsout there others do not know about. Just because the LEO sees crime does not mean he is going to commit "small crimes" because of it.

Fact: There are 303,158,137 people in the US

Fact: There are about 850,000 LEOs in the US

Fact: There were 766,010 inmates in US jails in 2006

Fact:1 out ofevery 406 people in the US area jail.

Fact:1 out of every 357people in the US are a LEO.

Fact: .24% of the US population were in US jails in 2006

Fact: .28% of the US population are LEOs

Fact: 1000 out of 303,158,137= .000329

Fact: 1000 out of 850,000=.117647

Fact: The correct ratiois1000 of the US populationto 3 LEOs

Your assertion that more LEOs are criminals vs citizens based on a random sample of 1000 from each group is so flawed!! It is simply wrong mathematically.
 

sjhipple

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LEO 229 wrote:
This is a citizen that shot and killed several people because he "lost control after people called him a "worthless pig" and that is all.

He was employed as a cop and was off duty at the time.


Oh please, he was a cop...it's hilarious that you're trying to act like he was just another guy who happened to be "employed as a cop"...but not a member of "da brudda-hood" or whatever you're calling yourgang nowadays. I guess the Chicago cop that beat up that young bartender was just another guy who "happened to be a cop" too?

It's a shame for him he wasn't on duty when he did it because he probably would've just been put on administrative leave till internal investigations cleared him. Plus, he would've had the benefit of having the entire police spin team behind him to say the victims had it coming.

LEO 229 wrote:
Your assertion that more LEOs are criminals vs citizens based on a random sample of 1000 from each group is so flawed!! It is simply wrong mathematically.

The fact that cops can do everything from get high off of stolen drugs to assaultyoung girlsto murder people without getting charged just MIGHT have something to do with it. On the other hand, the rest of us can be jailed if we yell "shut up" to a dog. Your statistics are completely worthless.
 

roscoe13

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LEO 229 wrote:
Renegade wrote:

Fact: this "group" as compared to the general population, has either a higher potential to commit crimes or a lower one.

Fact #2 How can the LEO group have aHigher AND Lower potential to commit crime? This it moronic! That is like says my car is expensiveand cheep at the same time.

Read much? Note the words "either" & "or" in "Fact" #2.
 

LEO 229

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roscoe13 wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
Renegade wrote:

Fact: this "group" as compared to the general population, has either a higher potential to commit crimes or a lower one.

Fact #2 How can the LEO group have aHigher AND Lower potential to commit crime? This it moronic! That is like says my car is expensiveand cheep at the same time.

Read much? Note the words "either" & "or" in "Fact" #2.

That alleged fact is meaningless....

It is just likepregnancy "Either your pregnant or your not...."

Which is it??
 

Doug Huffman

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