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Constitution, Training Bulletins and Court Opinions

H

heresolong

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Can we make this a sticky so it stays at the top?

Another possibility for having all the information available might be to see if whosits that has that NW carry site would be willing to put up a page with all the documents on it. Then this thread could just link to the page.
 
C

carhas0

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Actually, Spencer provides insight into circumstances and actions that can warrant alarm by the reasonable person standard and gives us an idea of prohibited conduct, and how RCW 9.41.270 is interpreted by the courts. Maciolek may do the same thing, and I tried to find it as well, but was unable.
 
j2l3

j2l3

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Nice, thanks for posting that link! I saw them individually but hadn't tried ot sort by subject, and therefore couldn't post them as a link.
 
amlevin

amlevin

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sean-1286 wrote:
Actually, Spencer provides insight into circumstances and actions that can warrant alarm by the reasonable person standard and gives us an idea of prohibited conduct, and how RCW 9.41.270 is interpreted by the courts. Maciolek may do the same thing, and I tried to find it as well, but was unable.
Click to expand...
My point was that Spencer's conviction for carrying the rifle with mag inserted was upheld. If you are saying that it illustrates what you shouldn't do, I agree.
 
C

carhas0

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amlevin wrote:
sean-1286 wrote:
Actually, Spencer provides insight into circumstances and actions that can warrant alarm by the reasonable person standard and gives us an idea of prohibited conduct, and how RCW 9.41.270 is interpreted by the courts. Maciolek may do the same thing, and I tried to find it as well, but was unable.
Click to expand...
My point was that Spencer's conviction for carrying the rifle with mag inserted was upheld. If you are saying that it illustrates what you shouldn't do, I agree.
Click to expand...
Of course! I wouldn't suggest doing what Spencer did, but there is useful information in the opinion about the limits of open carry. I don't think anyone here would try what he did, but I think it is important to be aware of these limits.
 
Gene Beasley

Gene Beasley

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I think these points are worthy of discussion (re:Spencer). What do you think of limiting this thread as a place to compile pertinent cases/laws/AG opinions and start a new thread for discussion of the merits. I really like to have the resource in one place toreferenceimportent informationwhen writing letters or preparing to visit an official.

Mods - Could we make this a sticky?
 
M

Marty Hayes

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Just a note of warning for those of you relying on the legal argument in State v. Casad. This was an unpublished opinion, and does not set ANY precedent in this state. It cannot be cited in any legal brief, nor does it confer any legal rights.

An AG opinion is needed on this point.
 
J

joeroket

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Marty Hayes wrote:
Just a note of warning for those of you relying on the legal argument in State v. Casad. This was an unpublished opinion, and does not set ANY precedent in this state. It cannot be cited in any legal brief, nor does it confer any legal rights.

An AG opinion is needed on this point.
Click to expand...
I agree 100% Marty. I just can't find a willing official to do it yet. I am going to try a couple of Legisatures that are not mine but rather I have family members that live in thier district and see what I can come up with.
 
amlevin

amlevin

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Marty Hayes wrote:
Just a note of warning for those of you relying on the legal argument in State v. Casad. This was an unpublished opinion, and does not set ANY precedent in this state. It cannot be cited in any legal brief, nor does it confer any legal rights.

An AG opinion is needed on this point.
Click to expand...

You are 100% correct that it can't be used in any LEGAL forum. It can be used, however, when trying to point out to a boneheaded City Attorney or a City/County Prosecutor that there people above them in the Appeals process think about what constitues Alarm. It could sway their opinion without necessarily having to go through the full legal process. No it is not legal precedent but it does give insight as to whether they might become part of the suit that does set legal precedent.

Until it is published or another published ruling comes along I would continue to provide it for "Reading Material".
 
J

joshmmm

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Marty Hayes wrote:
Just a note of warning for those of you relying on the legal argument in State v. Casad. This was an unpublished opinion, and does not set ANY precedent in this state. It cannot be cited in any legal brief, nor does it confer any legal rights.

An AG opinion is needed on this point.
Click to expand...
After much research I have determined this is a fact. You can not cite, according to WA GR 14.1(a), unpublished opinions from the state court of appeals.

However, the citation, if you were to citeit (ok as long as not in court or in a brief to the judge--might hold sway withpolice departments asthe likely result every time???)is: Not Reported in P.3d, 139 Wash.App. 1032, 2007 WL 1822401 (Wash.App. Div. 2).

There has apparently been some discussion about whether to allow the citation of unpublished appelate court opinions in the trial court level, but that has not happened and it is currently not allowed--for the most part.

Strangely, in Johnson v. Allstate Ins. Co. 126 Wash.App. 510, 108 P.3d 1273, the court admonished allstate for citing an unpublished opinion, noted that the judge thought that the rule was going to change soon and then, while saying it can't be done added a footnote that said the following: "Kitsap County v. Allstate Ins. Co., 136 Wash.2d 567, 964 P.2d 1173 (1998); Woodall, 104 Wash.App. 525, 16 P.3d 701. In some very limited circumstances, a party may, however, cite an unpublished opinion for collateral estoppel or res judicata purposes."



Anyway, just thought I would throw this little tidbit out there to back up the fact that the casad case is useless in court but certainly is still good to know. We should try to get it published, or get the rule relaxed allowing citation to unpublished opinions...

IANAL
 
J

joeroket

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Ok I sent a request off to Rep. Mike Sells. I made sure he knew why I was unhappy with Rep. McCoy. We'll see what kind of response I get back from him. If need be I'll just keep shipping the request off one at a time to all of the state Reps and maybe some chiefs and sheriffs. (man am I glad e-mail is free):D
 
M

Marty Hayes

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joshmmm wrote:
Marty Hayes wrote:
Just a note of warning for those of you relying on the legal argument in State v. Casad. This was an unpublished opinion, and does not set ANY precedent in this state. It cannot be cited in any legal brief, nor does it confer any legal rights.

An AG opinion is needed on this point.
Click to expand...
After much research I have determined this is a fact. You can not cite, according to WA GR 14.1(a), unpublished opinions from the state court of appeals.
Click to expand...

The reason I brought this up, is that I don't want to see someone relying on the wording in Casad to open carry, as the way I understand the legal system, no judge had to follow the Casad ruling in determining what constitutes "warrants alarm."

Marty
 
L

longwatch

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Locked at request to keep from being a discussion thread but if more info needs to be added PM me.
 
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