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MMM's & Bradys to lie in at Richmond gun show 10/20
- Thread starter skidmark
- Start date
bohdi
Regular Member
imported post
Hank, why don't we just make love and not war? How about you drop what your doing, and hot dog it down here to the meeting. I'll foot the bill. Bring me the receipts. Swear to god. I'd like NSL to get you on tape next to the lie in. I'd pay a million bucks to see that. Now you've got no reasonable excuse to not participate in an actual event.
I've seen T-Hawk in action, and others. You - just words. Some good, some not so much. If you want to be a force of change, join the action. Anyone can be an armchair quarterback. It doesn't get exciting until you actually hit the field.
I'll consider your "proof of life" when NSL calls me and identifies you the unicorn properly recorded on multimedia.
Hank, why don't we just make love and not war? How about you drop what your doing, and hot dog it down here to the meeting. I'll foot the bill. Bring me the receipts. Swear to god. I'd like NSL to get you on tape next to the lie in. I'd pay a million bucks to see that. Now you've got no reasonable excuse to not participate in an actual event.
I've seen T-Hawk in action, and others. You - just words. Some good, some not so much. If you want to be a force of change, join the action. Anyone can be an armchair quarterback. It doesn't get exciting until you actually hit the field.
I'll consider your "proof of life" when NSL calls me and identifies you the unicorn properly recorded on multimedia.
imported post
OK, just got back home from the C&E show today. The MMM's decided to hold their event at the church across the road from the Showplace - heard several folks say it was because they thought they would get better "exposure" there than in front of the Showplace whichwould have beenwell back from the road.
There were cameras from Richmond TV 6 and MTV, as well as a reporter from the Richmond Times Dispatch and some guy who called himself a "YouTube reporter". Folks told me their names, but I do not recall any of them. (I'm claiming CRS so be nice to the handicapped person here. :lol
I counted 37 adults, plus 3 kids. I might have missed one or two folks, but am pretty sure the count was right. They were all lined up - 37 across - while different folks stood in front and used a bullhorn to talk at them. Either the bullhorn was not very effective or I just could not hear because I was at the far left of their line, about even with where the speakers were.
There were about 15 VCDL/OCDO types who made it across the street to watch the goings-on. One person besides me brought a sign - "Guns Save Lives". I had 3 signs that I made up last night - "You are responsible for your own protection - when seconds count the police are just minutes away", "This is what happens when people are denied efffective means of self defense" (which I heldat the end of the line ofMM's who were laying on the ground), and "MMM's denied 32 victims the only effective means of self defense against a killer". One of the regulars that volunteers at the VCDL table (again CRS - can't recall his name) needs a wheelchair for mobility. He made a great visual holding the "You are responsible ...." sign. Grapeshot was there lending moral support and making pithy comments as the MMM's were demonstrating.
The only confrontation I saw during the lay-down was one of the MMM's told me I could not stand at the end of their line, and said I was trespassing. I assured her that I would move to make room for any of their group who wanted to lay down where I was, and that seemed to cut her off before she could take it any further.
After the lay-down, whichlasted for a bit longer than the previously announced 2 minutes, the press started taking more pictures and interviewing folks. My recollection was that they got a few quotes from the MMM folks and then started talking to the "counter-protesters). I think everyone was asked if they came to the Showplace because of the MMM demonstration. It seems the standard response was that we all came for both the gun show and the demonstration.
Some of the questions were seeking responses to the MMM's claims that you can buy a gun from an "unlicensed dealer" without a background check and that background checks need to be "even more thorough". It was as if the reporters knew the issues, and the questions gave us the opportunity to rebut the distortions and illogical stuff the MMM's were putting out.
One of the MMM women wanted to get interviewed too, so tried to worm her way into the Q&A I was having with the Times Dispatch reporter. Mostly she said "Oh, come on now" when I said anything. I decided that was the opening I had been waiting for, so trotted out the stats on meore kids being killed by 5-gallon pails andautomobiles than by firearms, and that those items ought to be banned, or at least buyers should have to pass a background check before getting them. The MMM sputtered and said "Those things are different". I replied that if if she really meant it when she saif "If only one life is saved, it will be worth it" when talking about firearms, then she ought to mean it as well when talking about all the other dangerous items out there.
Please forgive me. I know I sinned when I did that to her. But I just could not resist.:celebrate
Another of the MMM's got into the conversation and said he was a former MP and former law enforcement officer. I asked him what he would suggest, based on his backgrould, as an alternative that would provided effective self defense for the students, staff and faculty at Va Tech. He started saying how he believed guns were not the answer, but I kept interrupting (yes, I know I displayed bad manners) and asking him what alternative he would suggest that would have provided an effective means of self defense. After about 3 rounds of that he ran out of steam and huffed off.
I got a lot of face time with the reporter and camera-person from MTV. They were filming for the "Real Life" series, which has had some very balanced and positive coverage of the "gun rights" issues. Again, great questions and great opportunities to get pro- comments in.
[Cutting it short here. I'm getting called for dinner. I'll check back later & add more if nobody else who was there has not chimed in.]
stay safe.
skidmark
OK, just got back home from the C&E show today. The MMM's decided to hold their event at the church across the road from the Showplace - heard several folks say it was because they thought they would get better "exposure" there than in front of the Showplace whichwould have beenwell back from the road.
There were cameras from Richmond TV 6 and MTV, as well as a reporter from the Richmond Times Dispatch and some guy who called himself a "YouTube reporter". Folks told me their names, but I do not recall any of them. (I'm claiming CRS so be nice to the handicapped person here. :lol
I counted 37 adults, plus 3 kids. I might have missed one or two folks, but am pretty sure the count was right. They were all lined up - 37 across - while different folks stood in front and used a bullhorn to talk at them. Either the bullhorn was not very effective or I just could not hear because I was at the far left of their line, about even with where the speakers were.
There were about 15 VCDL/OCDO types who made it across the street to watch the goings-on. One person besides me brought a sign - "Guns Save Lives". I had 3 signs that I made up last night - "You are responsible for your own protection - when seconds count the police are just minutes away", "This is what happens when people are denied efffective means of self defense" (which I heldat the end of the line ofMM's who were laying on the ground), and "MMM's denied 32 victims the only effective means of self defense against a killer". One of the regulars that volunteers at the VCDL table (again CRS - can't recall his name) needs a wheelchair for mobility. He made a great visual holding the "You are responsible ...." sign. Grapeshot was there lending moral support and making pithy comments as the MMM's were demonstrating.
The only confrontation I saw during the lay-down was one of the MMM's told me I could not stand at the end of their line, and said I was trespassing. I assured her that I would move to make room for any of their group who wanted to lay down where I was, and that seemed to cut her off before she could take it any further.
After the lay-down, whichlasted for a bit longer than the previously announced 2 minutes, the press started taking more pictures and interviewing folks. My recollection was that they got a few quotes from the MMM folks and then started talking to the "counter-protesters). I think everyone was asked if they came to the Showplace because of the MMM demonstration. It seems the standard response was that we all came for both the gun show and the demonstration.
Some of the questions were seeking responses to the MMM's claims that you can buy a gun from an "unlicensed dealer" without a background check and that background checks need to be "even more thorough". It was as if the reporters knew the issues, and the questions gave us the opportunity to rebut the distortions and illogical stuff the MMM's were putting out.
One of the MMM women wanted to get interviewed too, so tried to worm her way into the Q&A I was having with the Times Dispatch reporter. Mostly she said "Oh, come on now" when I said anything. I decided that was the opening I had been waiting for, so trotted out the stats on meore kids being killed by 5-gallon pails andautomobiles than by firearms, and that those items ought to be banned, or at least buyers should have to pass a background check before getting them. The MMM sputtered and said "Those things are different". I replied that if if she really meant it when she saif "If only one life is saved, it will be worth it" when talking about firearms, then she ought to mean it as well when talking about all the other dangerous items out there.
Please forgive me. I know I sinned when I did that to her. But I just could not resist.:celebrate
Another of the MMM's got into the conversation and said he was a former MP and former law enforcement officer. I asked him what he would suggest, based on his backgrould, as an alternative that would provided effective self defense for the students, staff and faculty at Va Tech. He started saying how he believed guns were not the answer, but I kept interrupting (yes, I know I displayed bad manners) and asking him what alternative he would suggest that would have provided an effective means of self defense. After about 3 rounds of that he ran out of steam and huffed off.
I got a lot of face time with the reporter and camera-person from MTV. They were filming for the "Real Life" series, which has had some very balanced and positive coverage of the "gun rights" issues. Again, great questions and great opportunities to get pro- comments in.
[Cutting it short here. I'm getting called for dinner. I'll check back later & add more if nobody else who was there has not chimed in.]
stay safe.
skidmark
HankT
State Researcher
imported post
Well, thanks for the first report, skidmark.
I'd have to headline it:
Train Wreck Averted In Richmond Today
Now........we get to see how the press handles it....:uhoh:
Well, thanks for the first report, skidmark.
I'd have to headline it:
Train Wreck Averted In Richmond Today
Now........we get to see how the press handles it....:uhoh:
taurusfan
Regular Member
imported post
I went to show same old people, same old stuff, except one new product I didn't know about before: Ruger SR9, a polymer, striker fired 9mm pistol.
http://www.ruger.com/sr9/
I went to show same old people, same old stuff, except one new product I didn't know about before: Ruger SR9, a polymer, striker fired 9mm pistol.
http://www.ruger.com/sr9/
sjhipple
Regular Member
imported post
Tomahawk wrote:
Tomahawk wrote:
That's because they're trying their best to try and think of gun owners as somehow non-human and you acting like the everyday guy that you (probably) makes it harder for them to hold onto their prejuduces, stereotypes and hatred.
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Was I really "pithy" Skidmark? I didn't know that is how it was spelled. Thought I was just being observant and commenting objectively.
Had a chance to recommend that the MTV camera lady and reporter read Armed and Female and Skidmark recommended Fight Like a Cornered Cat site as very informative. They (the reporters) actually seemed very interested and wrote down the info for both of these. Just maybe some potential converts - hopefully.
Looking forward to any footage of the "lie-in" He-he love that discription!
Yata hey
Was I really "pithy" Skidmark? I didn't know that is how it was spelled. Thought I was just being observant and commenting objectively.
Had a chance to recommend that the MTV camera lady and reporter read Armed and Female and Skidmark recommended Fight Like a Cornered Cat site as very informative. They (the reporters) actually seemed very interested and wrote down the info for both of these. Just maybe some potential converts - hopefully.
Looking forward to any footage of the "lie-in" He-he love that discription!
Yata hey
Ghettokracker71
Regular Member
imported post
What ended up happening?
What ended up happening?
Shovelhead
Regular Member
DrMark
Lone Star Veteran
imported post
nakedshoplifter wrote:
SicSemperTyrannis wrote:
My brother went to the Richmond show today (I couldn't make it). He said he saw nothing of the protest.
nakedshoplifter wrote:
Good point. Ignoring JerseyCity Hank works well for many of us!
SicSemperTyrannis wrote:
The involvement of church folks, and the church serving as a protest site, seem bizarre to me. Heck, most of my friends at church (including our last pastor) have concealed handgun permits. I usually see someone from church at the local gun shows.
My brother went to the Richmond show today (I couldn't make it). He said he saw nothing of the protest.
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Hopefully VCDL will have some footage available soon of the MMM "lie-in."
The MMM did not protest on the gun show grounds, but at their staging area across the street on church property. They retreated before they advanced!
Read other's comments above and you will get a pretty good feel for what this non-confrontational event was like. Same old lies and distortions on their (MMM) part and solid, polite responses on our part - leaving the MMM reps sputtering and walking away. It was good.
Yata hey
Hopefully VCDL will have some footage available soon of the MMM "lie-in."
The MMM did not protest on the gun show grounds, but at their staging area across the street on church property. They retreated before they advanced!
Read other's comments above and you will get a pretty good feel for what this non-confrontational event was like. Same old lies and distortions on their (MMM) part and solid, polite responses on our part - leaving the MMM reps sputtering and walking away. It was good.
Attachments
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The MMM's vilified firearms as inherently evil things, and blamed firearms for killing or wouding their children. They were unable to say that people have to be responsible for their behavior, and to accept the consequences of their behavior. They continued to refuse to acceptthat criminals will disregard any laws they propose, as well as all the laws already on the books. And they refused to admit that there might beany bodywho possesa firearm who is capable of behaving in a responsible manner.
And perhaps worst of all, they had nothing to offer when asked for an alternative that would provide an effective means of self defense against someone bent onkilling them.
While our side may not get the same number of seconds of air time, or the same number of column inches, as the MMM's my experience with both the print and tv/video media folks was that they knew the MMM"s were not coming up with any plans that might prove workable. Yes, little kittens stuck in treesandchildren shot dead will always get the attention of the press. But after the initial "thrill" subsides and folks start askingquestionsabout how to prevent more kittens from getting stuck in trees or children killed by psychos (or gangbangers with bad aim for that matter) the MMM's have only one answer, and that answer only works for folks who are going to obey the law. Criminals, by definition, do not obey the law. I have never seen any research that supports the idea that psycho killers are able to control their behavior because they know it breaks some law.
stay safe.
skidmark
No, Hank, there was no train wreck averted in Richmond today. As a matter of fact, the MMM's wrecked even worse than they did up in Fairfac County at their two previous public meetings.
The MMM's vilified firearms as inherently evil things, and blamed firearms for killing or wouding their children. They were unable to say that people have to be responsible for their behavior, and to accept the consequences of their behavior. They continued to refuse to acceptthat criminals will disregard any laws they propose, as well as all the laws already on the books. And they refused to admit that there might beany bodywho possesa firearm who is capable of behaving in a responsible manner.
And perhaps worst of all, they had nothing to offer when asked for an alternative that would provide an effective means of self defense against someone bent onkilling them.
While our side may not get the same number of seconds of air time, or the same number of column inches, as the MMM's my experience with both the print and tv/video media folks was that they knew the MMM"s were not coming up with any plans that might prove workable. Yes, little kittens stuck in treesandchildren shot dead will always get the attention of the press. But after the initial "thrill" subsides and folks start askingquestionsabout how to prevent more kittens from getting stuck in trees or children killed by psychos (or gangbangers with bad aim for that matter) the MMM's have only one answer, and that answer only works for folks who are going to obey the law. Criminals, by definition, do not obey the law. I have never seen any research that supports the idea that psycho killers are able to control their behavior because they know it breaks some law.
stay safe.
skidmark
imported post
The funny thing is late this evening I talked to some folks who were driving by the site of the event. They said they were not able to see who it was or why they were standing in front of the church. They said they guessed it was not a wedding or funeral because of the way people were dressed, but otherwise had no clue what was going on.
Having orchstrated activism events in my mis-spent youth, I know that one of the best tactics is to organize people to drive past the event and honk their horns in support. From the lack of folks doing that, I'm guessing the MMM's did not organize that for their event and that nobody passing by could figure out who they were or why they were there.
I want to thank Skeeter (hope I finally remembered his name correctly) and his wife Kim (again hope I remembered the name right), Grapeshot who truely was "pithy", the guy who held the third sign (still cannot recall his name), the VCDL member who came with his "Guns Save Lives" sign, and the VCDL Executive Committe and peons who stiood there to be counted, for showing up. And last of all, I'd like to thank whoever it was who decided that I was to be the person to speak to the media after Philip and the Executive Committe folks went back to the Showplace. I'll find out who you are, and I'll get even some how, some day.
It's late, and I have to get up in a few hours to go buy the Sunday paper - something I have not done in years.
stay safe.
skidmark (whose sign got more air time thanhis face. that might be a good thing.)
The church site seemed to have been selected because it was adjacent to Mechanicsville Turnpike, a major 6-lane highway. My guess is the MMM"s realized that anything they did in front of the Showplace would not be seen by the general public, and also that they would be "in enemy territory" and thus greatly outnumbered. There also may have been some inherent fear of being so close to "guns".
The funny thing is late this evening I talked to some folks who were driving by the site of the event. They said they were not able to see who it was or why they were standing in front of the church. They said they guessed it was not a wedding or funeral because of the way people were dressed, but otherwise had no clue what was going on.
Having orchstrated activism events in my mis-spent youth, I know that one of the best tactics is to organize people to drive past the event and honk their horns in support. From the lack of folks doing that, I'm guessing the MMM's did not organize that for their event and that nobody passing by could figure out who they were or why they were there.
I want to thank Skeeter (hope I finally remembered his name correctly) and his wife Kim (again hope I remembered the name right), Grapeshot who truely was "pithy", the guy who held the third sign (still cannot recall his name), the VCDL member who came with his "Guns Save Lives" sign, and the VCDL Executive Committe and peons who stiood there to be counted, for showing up. And last of all, I'd like to thank whoever it was who decided that I was to be the person to speak to the media after Philip and the Executive Committe folks went back to the Showplace. I'll find out who you are, and I'll get even some how, some day.
It's late, and I have to get up in a few hours to go buy the Sunday paper - something I have not done in years.
stay safe.
skidmark (whose sign got more air time thanhis face. that might be a good thing.)
longwatch
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
imported post
Skidmark if I had known that was you I'd have said hi.
All I can say about the protest is it needed more cowbell.:celebrate
Skidmark if I had known that was you I'd have said hi.
All I can say about the protest is it needed more cowbell.:celebrate
Tomahawk
Regular Member
imported post
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I have footage of everything except for the first couple of minutes. Unfortunately, I have clearwire and am playing hell uploading any of it.
There was a lot of traffic noise and not much good audio except for an old fellow that told mie he wasa "Radical" and a "Hunter" and "owned 3 guns". Later he told me he he wanted the loophole closed because "terrorists could buy guns at gunshows"...Where do they get this stuff.
If I can't get it uploaded today, I'll make a DVD and get someone to do it for me.
I think the Henrico Police may have had a hand in using the Church. There was a lot of discussion with different people before they got there and they certainly had officers on location when it started.
The VCDL speakers did an excellent job.
My impression of the MMM's was that I was in a yard full of angry, snobbish, snippy. Mary Kay Girls.
I have footage of everything except for the first couple of minutes. Unfortunately, I have clearwire and am playing hell uploading any of it.
There was a lot of traffic noise and not much good audio except for an old fellow that told mie he wasa "Radical" and a "Hunter" and "owned 3 guns". Later he told me he he wanted the loophole closed because "terrorists could buy guns at gunshows"...Where do they get this stuff.
If I can't get it uploaded today, I'll make a DVD and get someone to do it for me.
I think the Henrico Police may have had a hand in using the Church. There was a lot of discussion with different people before they got there and they certainly had officers on location when it started.
The VCDL speakers did an excellent job.
My impression of the MMM's was that I was in a yard full of angry, snobbish, snippy. Mary Kay Girls.
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Still working on the video and there's no way I'm going to get the full 39 minutes on line but I'll make a DVD.
Here is a short clip of the most colorful fellow there:
http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/peternap/?action=view¤t=Default_1.flv
He came back a little later and started on the background checks again. When he got to the terrorists , I made a very undiplomatic comment and he went home. ....I never claimed to be an ambassador of good will. I was just taking videos:banghead:
http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/peternap/?action=view¤t=rad_3.flv
Still working on the video and there's no way I'm going to get the full 39 minutes on line but I'll make a DVD.
Here is a short clip of the most colorful fellow there:
http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/peternap/?action=view¤t=Default_1.flv
He came back a little later and started on the background checks again. When he got to the terrorists , I made a very undiplomatic comment and he went home. ....I never claimed to be an ambassador of good will. I was just taking videos:banghead:
http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa57/peternap/?action=view¤t=rad_3.flv
HankT
State Researcher
imported post
peter nap wrote:
peter nap wrote:
Were all thelie-in persons dressed in black?
SFDoc
Regular Member
imported post
http://www.wtvr.com/global/story.asp?s=7242809
this is what CBS has posted on their web site. Didn't see my heros (Skidmark and Grapeshot) on the 11:00 news last night. Must have edited them out for making too much sense.
the 7:00 am CBS news had even less. Didn't see anything on ABC or NBC.
http://www.wtvr.com/global/story.asp?s=7242809
this is what CBS has posted on their web site. Didn't see my heros (Skidmark and Grapeshot) on the 11:00 news last night
. Must have edited them out for making too much sense.the 7:00 am CBS news had even less. Didn't see anything on ABC or NBC.