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Thread: open carry question from a new guy

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    Hey guys, im new here and i have read some of the posts. I have not seen anywhere, so far, a basic part of OC. My question is What is the deal with the magazine and bullets while OCing? I dont think you should have a round in the chamber, but is it legal to carry your weapon with a loaded magazine in the gun? It only makes sense to have the loaded magazine in the gun since you have the gun to use for self defence and your attacker is not going to wait for you to load up? Please fill me in on this information. Thanks a lot guys.

    P.S. One more member from AZ.

    Rick

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    Note, an attacker is not going to wait for you to rack the slide on a semiauto. I don't know anyone that doesn'tCCW and OC arevolverwith onebehind the hammer so I would think the semiauto is acceptable to be ready to fire (other than a safety).

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    State dependent. Some places like utah have funny laws similar to what you are asking about.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_to...ht=two+actions



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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    Rick9mm wrote:
    I dont think you should have a round in the chamber...
    You don't think I should have a round in the chamber, or are you uncomfortable carrying a firearm with a round in the chamber.

    My 1911 is loaded, cocked and locked.

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    I meant one should not have one as a safety measure. I was asking if it waslegal to have the round ready, not if one should or is able to do it. I am comfortable to have the round ready in my home. Im just asking so that i cover my ass when i hand my weapon to an officer if i get pulled over. What does the law say about this.



    Rick

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    DO NOT EVER reach for a gun during a police stop, unless and until instructed to do so, and only then handle it exactly in the manner so directed - permit or not. They will kill you otherwise. No joke.

    -ljp

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    Rick9mm wrote:
    I meant one should not have one as a safety measure.
    "This is my safety" "Hoot" from Black Hawk Down

    Safety is more than a mechanical device. It is a mindset, an attitude, and the way you handle a firearm.

    And as Legba said, PLEASE do not touch your gun if pulled by a LEO. You will probably be shot, and with good reason. That just would not be smart.

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    Why would you hand your gun to a cop in the first place? If you can legally carry in any condition I see no reason why it should even come out of the holster. Just because you are asked to do something doesn’t mean you have to.Until I am under arrest My gun stays put in a LEO stop. I Have Had a LEO ask me to give him my gun to check during a traffic stop, I refused. When the cop asked why I told him It IS loaded and there is no reason for him to see it. In addition to this I informed him that it couldnt be in a safer place than my holster. At this point he dropped it and let me keep it on my hip.

    (some state restrictions apply that would make the above bad advice, learn your state laws)



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    Here is Las Vegas, its perfectly legal to carry with 1 in the chamber, racked and ready to go... full magazine and all... and I do.

    Glock 19, Surefire X-200A, Hornady TAP FPD or Corbon Hardball, 2 extra mags.

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    As with most of the others who have already posted, I also carry with a full mag and a round in the chamber. If I'm in the position to need my gun, I don't want to have to rack the slide before I can use it.

    If you don't feel 100% completely comfortable with a gun that has a round chambered, you may want to reconsider carrying.

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    As far as I know, it is completely legal to carry in any condition in Alabama. When I carry my dad's 1911, it's cocked and locked. When I carry my XD, 10 in the mag and one in the chamber... no exceptions. An unloaded gun is just an expensive hammer, and a bad one at that. Also, no sense getting into a gunfight with a partially loaded gun either. You are going to want as many rounds as you can get.

    Welcome to OCDO btw!

    Don't touch your gun around the police. The next time your family sees you you will be dressed nice and they will be saying nice things about you...

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    Legba,

    No they won't, they have to fire a warning shot first!

    Reach for it all you want...



    -- John D.

    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    THANKS A LOT GUYS!

    Like i said i just wanted to make sure it is legal. Im going to get my CW permit as soon as i get some money and time. My brother already has his. I like thiswebsite.



    Rick

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    When people ask me if my 1911 is loaded, I almost 100% of the time answer, "LOCKED, COCKED, AND READY TO ROCK!"

    An aquaintance of mine who was NG - several deployments to the sandbox - told me the following. "When people ask if I my firearms are loaded I tell them that unless it is, it is just an expensive club. And in the case of an AR-15 style weapon innefective."

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    When I first carried a semi, I carried it safetied without a round in the chamber. I was new to firearms and not THAT comfy yet... Until my first time making a delivery into a bad neighborhood. En route, I charged the gun. I started carrying it chambered. Then I was forced to draw in self-defense once. The dropping of the safety was automatic, but I decided I never wanted anything in between a draw and a shoot if I had to.

    Of course, later I got a Glock, so it's chambered and unsafetied just as I was carrying before

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    I have a 1911 also, but I carry a Beretta 3032 Tomcat for certain reasons (don't ask so I don't have to plead the 5th)...of course there IS a round in the chamber...why would I stack the odds against me?

    But remember this: ANY gunyou HAVE ON YOU-- regardless of its carrying condition and EVEN IF YOU HAVE TO RACKTHE SLIDE-- is a HELL of a lot better AND FASTER to get into operation than a gun left in the caror at home. Besides, you're SUPPOSED to be aware of your surroundings and not be taken by surprise. Wise up.

    Case closed.

    Don't sweat the milliseconds...that's just pointless. Leave the ignorance re: reality to clueless liberals.

    -- John D.


    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    Rick9mm wrote:
    THANKS A LOT GUYS!

    Like i said i just wanted to make sure it is legal. Im going to get my CW permit as soon as i get some money and time. My brother already has his. I like thiswebsite.



    Rick
    Well welcome aboard! As for the gun being loaded, I can understand where you are coming from, but I disagree. If you aren't familiar with the 4 rules, please take a moment to review them. I don't have a link, so I'll write them at the end of this post. If you follow the 4 rules, it won't matter if the gun is loaded, cocked, safety off, or anything else. Safety is a mindset.

    Personally, I think that keeping the gun unloaded is less safe. Let me explain. First of all, there is the typical arguement that there is no point carrying the gun if the chamber isn't loaded, and that an attacker will not give you time to cycle the action to load a round. While I agree with this statement, there are plenty of arguements against this, and I don't want to debate it. The problem is the responsibility of safety. If you leave the chamber unloaded, then you have transfered the responsibility of safety to the firearm. This is a bad idea. You should always be responsible for safety. You should rely on yourself for safety, not on the firearm. This is why you hear of people accidentally shooting people when they thought the gun was unloaded. It is safer to assume that the gun has a round in the chamber than to assume that it doesn't. If this makes you uncomfortable, there are plenty of guns with safeties and double action triggers that will make an accidental discharge less likely, but again, follow the 4 rules and this won't be an issue with any gun, no matterhow it operates. (except maybe one of those Japanese pistols from WWII that looked kind of like an ugly Luger... they had a tendancy to just go off from what I've read)

    As for the law, you will need to research your own state's regulations on handguns.

    Here are the 4 rules; If you follow them, you will never have to worry about an accidental or negligent discharge:

    1. Treat every gun as if it were loaded at all times, even if you know for a fact that it is not.
    2. Never, under any circumstance, point a gun at anything that you are unwilling to kill ordestroy. Always be aware of what your muzzle is pointed at.
    3. Keep your finger off of the trigger until your sights are on target and you are ready to fire. Even if you are anticipating having to fire, do not touch the trigger until you wish for a bullet to leave the barrel.*
    4. Be aware of your target and what is beyond it. Consider where your bullet will go if it misses or over-penetrates, and be100%sure of what you are shooting at.

    *A lot of people ask "what if" questions for this rule. Let me make it clear: even in a situation where you have an attacker at gunpoint, do not put your finger on the trigger. Your senses will be hightened and the slightest distraction could cause you to accidentally kill someone that has already surrendered. This is the case with a lot of officer involved shootings. The officer will enter the house with his finger on the trigger, and upon seeing someone they will accidentally shoot them because they are startled. Another situation would be that the officer has a suspect at gunpoint and then hears a gunshot or breakingglassin the next room, then flinches from the unexpected sound accidentally pulling the trigger. This doesn't just happen to cops; it can happen to you too. So really, honestly... keep your booger hook off the bang switch.

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    Welcome! Something to remember is that if you are having to draw your weapon, you are already under attack! Drawing your weapon takes one of your hands and your attention - even for a second - out of the fight. Trying to draw and then rack the slide to chamber a round (without short stroking or misfeeding) while being attacked is something I don't want to try.

    In Hollyweird, you have two guys engaged in a witty battle of skills. In real life, you have a brick being smashed into your face.:what:

    LoveMyCountry

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    I'll add to what expvidep said. Carrying with an empty chamber can decrease your safety. Negligent discharges almost always happen when someone is handling a gun. The more you have to do with a gun while under the stress of an attack, the more likely something untoward will happen. Flipping the safety off is much less distracting and doesn't invove fumbling with the firearm to any extent. Racking the slide when you're scared to death might increase the risk that you'd instinctively grip the pistol tightly with your right hand.....and the trigger. JMHO.

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    cloudcroft wrote:
    Legba,

    No they won't, they have to fire a warning shot first!

    Reach for it all you want...



    -- John D.
    Nice epitaph that...

    The last "warning" I got from a cop was "shut the **** up before I kick the **** out of you" afterI was already handcuffed and seated on the curbside. Real tough chick she was, eh? If I had offered to "show" them the gun I was then transporting in the car, they'd have emptied (4 detectives x # of bullets per magazine x # of magazines) + (backup uniforms responding and all their ammo)...

    You'd need calculator to figure out how many bullets I'd have taken, even if they hit at the usual police rate of 15% or so. I think I did OK, all considered. In any case, the newby might not appreciate your sick humor.

    -ljp

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    "Real tough chick she was, eh?"

    Yeah, she's been watching too many "superchick" TV shows where women kick men's asses. The reality is she'd getHER ass kicked...and then some. But a lot of airhead women nowadays believe that "tough chick" BS "as seen on TV" and in the movies...they're in for a rude awakening someday if they ever get into it with a guy...that is, if he's not one of the many effeminate "men" we also have about nowadays...then it'd be just a cat fight/hissy-fit thing going on.

    Meow.

    Besides, don't we haveENOUGH unattractive butch masculine "attitude" women about nowadays?

    You can have them.

    -- John D.


    P.S. As I said earlier to everyone here, you're SUPPOSED to be aware of your surroundings...so you SHOULD have time to rack a slide if you need to (if that's how you want to carry, unloaded chamber). If you doNOT have time, you screwed up in other areas, not re: what condition the gun was in. It's not just the gun, it's TACTICS, too.







    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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    I used to work ina rough neighborhood at night. Of the (let me recollect for a second)4.5 times I had to draw down, only about half of them would have worked well with racking the slide. I never had to shoot, but some of those situations would not have worked well with racking the slide.

    1. I was walking down second ave when a bum pulled what appeared to be a knife, yelled at me and started to run at me (no reason whatsoever) at 2:30am. I drew and had enough distance that if I had to I could have racked the slide.

    2. A group of roughly 50 black guys decided to beat aguy Ikind of knewnearly to death in a parking lot. He's alive because I got there with a surefire light and my hand on a holstered handgun. Fortunately for me (since this was not a very thought out plan) this detered the croud and they backed off. I may have been able to rack the slide.

    3. A 300 pound (and not an ounce of it fat) drunken native american was about to throw a guy I knew off of a balcony at a hotel. I tried to calm him down since he didn't realize what he was doing. He decided to put down the guy and take his anger out on me. After knocking the wind out of me with a kick to the chest, I tried to calm him down with a stereotypical "not my fight" comment, only to be answered by another kick to the chest. I felt that I would be dead if this went on much longer so I drew down on him and he stopped. I could not have racked the slide.

    4. A guy stumbled out of a bar that shared the parking lot of the gas station I was pumping at. He and his friend threw some stuff at cars and banged on the car behind me, scaring the girl in it. I decided to leave and avoid trouble. As I was trying to leave the guy decided he was going to kick my ass (since I was another guy, and for no other reason). He broke the window of my car and tried to pull me out of it. His face met the muzzle of my sig and he backed down. I could not have racked the slide.

    5.I was working at a night club. I was in the parking lot when a bunch of people started screaming and running toward the club. A black "gangsta" came across the parking lot with a Mac11 in his hand. He stood a few feet away from a scared crowd of about 30 people, waving his machinepistol at them and yelling something in gangsta. I was about 20 yards away baracaded behind a car with my sigp220 .45trained on his head. I was unconfident about the shot, since it had to count, and I didn't want him to notice me. I wouldn't have been comfortable racking the slide. Fortunately, he heard sirens and ran before I had to make a choice. I was scared and spent a lot of time at the range after that, building my confidence.



    Anyway, there it is. Long story short, I don't work in night clubs anymore, and I stay away from people and situationsthat make me uncomfortable. I'm sure I get to enjoy some flaming now, since there is nothing I can do that isn't a mistake once picked appart by forum dwellers, but whatever. I can take it.

  23. #23
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    cloudcroft wrote:
    If you doNOT have time, you screwed up in other areas, not re: what condition the gun was in.
    That blanket statement borders on silly. One cannot predict an emergency. The flight manual for the C-141 has almost a dozen chapters, and chapter three is one of the most important because it details the emergency procedures. If we were to experience an in-flight or ground emergency, we were expected to open the book and review the procedures for that emergency. It started out as just a small handful of pages when the airplane was built in the early 60s, and was phonebook thick when I started flying them in the 80s. The funny thing is that very few of the emergencies I experienced were addressed in chapter three. Why? Because it is impossible to have foreknowledge of something unpredictable.



    I carry one in the chamber because I cannot predict how a situation may present itself. I do not feel that a requirement to use two hands to ready the pistol is acceptable.

  24. #24
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    expvideo wrote:
    I used to work ina rough neighborhood at night. Of the (let me recollect for a second)4.5 times I had to draw down, only about half of them would have worked well with racking the slide. I never had to shoot, but some of those situations would not have worked well with racking the slide.

    1. I was walking down second ave when a bum pulled what appeared to be a knife, yelled at me and started to run at me (no reason whatsoever) at 2:30am. I drew and had enough distance that if I had to I could have racked the slide.

    2. A group of roughly 50 black guys decided to beat aguy Ikind of knewnearly to death in a parking lot. He's alive because I got there with a surefire light and my hand on a holstered handgun. Fortunately for me (since this was not a very thought out plan) this detered the croud and they backed off. I may have been able to rack the slide.

    3. A 300 pound (and not an ounce of it fat) drunken native american was about to throw a guy I knew off of a balcony at a hotel. I tried to calm him down since he didn't realize what he was doing. He decided to put down the guy and take his anger out on me. After knocking the wind out of me with a kick to the chest, I tried to calm him down with a stereotypical "not my fight" comment, only to be answered by another kick to the chest. I felt that I would be dead if this went on much longer so I drew down on him and he stopped. I could not have racked the slide.

    4. A guy stumbled out of a bar that shared the parking lot of the gas station I was pumping at. He and his friend threw some stuff at cars and banged on the car behind me, scaring the girl in it. I decided to leave and avoid trouble. As I was trying to leave the guy decided he was going to kick my ass (since I was another guy, and for no other reason). He broke the window of my car and tried to pull me out of it. His face met the muzzle of my sig and he backed down. I could not have racked the slide.

    5.I was working at a night club. I was in the parking lot when a bunch of people started screaming and running toward the club. A black "gangsta" came across the parking lot with a Mac11 in his hand. He stood a few feet away from a scared crowd of about 30 people, waving his machinepistol at them and yelling something in gangsta. I was about 20 yards away baracaded behind a car with my sigp220 .45trained on his head. I was unconfident about the shot, since it had to count, and I didn't want him to notice me. I wouldn't have been comfortable racking the slide. Fortunately, he heard sirens and ran before I had to make a choice. I was scared and spent a lot of time at the range after that, building my confidence.



    Anyway, there it is. Long story short, I don't work in night clubs anymore, and I stay away from people and situationsthat make me uncomfortable. I'm sure I get to enjoy some flaming now, since there is nothing I can do that isn't a mistake once picked appart by forum dwellers, but whatever. I can take it.
    Remind me to never hang out with you. :what: Man! YOU ATTRACT TROUBLE!

    Seriously, though, I'm not bashing you, just some light hearted humor... but you're the poster-child for armed self-defense... you've defended yourself, other times you've defended others and ALL without firing a shot!

    Nicely handled situations BTW (took a couple kicks, tried to drive away etc) It shows you have restraint.



  25. #25
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    Mainsail,

    You CAN train for the unexpected in little things that happen every day and which have nothing to do with guns, self-defense, etc..

    But if my comments "border on silly," you keep doing what you've been doing.

    Some people get it, most don't.

    Good luck,

    -- John D.



    (formerly of Colorado Springs, CO)

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