open carry question from a new guy

cloudcroft · Oct 17, 2007

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"Real tough chick she was, eh?"

Yeah, she's been watching too many "superchick" TV shows where women kick men's asses. The reality is she'd getHER ass kicked...and then some. But a lot of airhead women nowadays believe that "tough chick" BS "as seen on TV" and in the movies...they're in for a rude awakening someday if they ever get into it with a guy...that is, if he's not one of the many effeminate "men" we also have about nowadays...then it'd be just a cat fight/hissy-fit thing going on.

Meow.

Besides, don't we haveENOUGH unattractive butch masculine "attitude" women about nowadays?

You can have them.

-- John D.

P.S. As I said earlier to everyone here, you're SUPPOSED to be aware of your surroundings...so you SHOULD have time to rack a slide if you need to (if that's how you want to carry, unloaded chamber). If you doNOT have time, you screwed up in other areas, not re: what condition the gun was in. It's not just the gun, it's TACTICS, too.

expvideo · Oct 17, 2007

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I used to work ina rough neighborhood at night. Of the (let me recollect for a second)4.5 times I had to draw down, only about half of them would have worked well with racking the slide. I never had to shoot, but some of those situations would not have worked well with racking the slide.

1. I was walking down second ave when a bum pulled what appeared to be a knife, yelled at me and started to run at me (no reason whatsoever) at 2:30am. I drew and had enough distance that if I had to I could have racked the slide.

2. A group of roughly 50 black guys decided to beat aguy Ikind of knewnearly to death in a parking lot. He's alive because I got there with a surefire light and my hand on a holstered handgun. Fortunately for me (since this was not a very thought out plan) this detered the croud and they backed off. I may have been able to rack the slide.

3. A 300 pound (and not an ounce of it fat) drunken native american was about to throw a guy I knew off of a balcony at a hotel. I tried to calm him down since he didn't realize what he was doing. He decided to put down the guy and take his anger out on me. After knocking the wind out of me with a kick to the chest, I tried to calm him down with a stereotypical "not my fight" comment, only to be answered by another kick to the chest. I felt that I would be dead if this went on much longer so I drew down on him and he stopped. I could not have racked the slide.

4. A guy stumbled out of a bar that shared the parking lot of the gas station I was pumping at. He and his friend threw some stuff at cars and banged on the car behind me, scaring the girl in it. I decided to leave and avoid trouble. As I was trying to leave the guy decided he was going to kick my ass (since I was another guy, and for no other reason). He broke the window of my car and tried to pull me out of it. His face met the muzzle of my sig and he backed down. I could not have racked the slide.

5.I was working at a night club. I was in the parking lot when a bunch of people started screaming and running toward the club. A black "gangsta" came across the parking lot with a Mac11 in his hand. He stood a few feet away from a scared crowd of about 30 people, waving his machinepistol at them and yelling something in gangsta. I was about 20 yards away baracaded behind a car with my sigp220 .45trained on his head. I was unconfident about the shot, since it had to count, and I didn't want him to notice me. I wouldn't have been comfortable racking the slide. Fortunately, he heard sirens and ran before I had to make a choice. I was scared and spent a lot of time at the range after that, building my confidence.

Anyway, there it is. Long story short, I don't work in night clubs anymore, and I stay away from people and situationsthat make me uncomfortable. I'm sure I get to enjoy some flaming now, since there is nothing I can do that isn't a mistake once picked appart by forum dwellers, but whatever. I can take it.

Mainsail · Oct 17, 2007

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cloudcroft wrote:

If you doNOT have time, you screwed up in other areas, not re: what condition the gun was in.

That blanket statement borders on silly. One cannot predict an emergency. The flight manual for the C-141 has almost a dozen chapters, and chapter three is one of the most important because it details the emergency procedures. If we were to experience an in-flight or ground emergency, we were expected to open the book and review the procedures for that emergency. It started out as just a small handful of pages when the airplane was built in the early 60s, and was phonebook thick when I started flying them in the 80s. The funny thing is that very few of the emergencies I experienced were addressed in chapter three. Why? Because it is impossible to have foreknowledge of something unpredictable.

I carry one in the chamber because I cannot predict how a situation may present itself. I do not feel that a requirement to use two hands to ready the pistol is acceptable.

IdahoCorsair · Oct 17, 2007

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expvideo wrote:

I used to work ina rough neighborhood at night. Of the (let me recollect for a second)4.5 times I had to draw down, only about half of them would have worked well with racking the slide. I never had to shoot, but some of those situations would not have worked well with racking the slide.

1. I was walking down second ave when a bum pulled what appeared to be a knife, yelled at me and started to run at me (no reason whatsoever) at 2:30am. I drew and had enough distance that if I had to I could have racked the slide.

2. A group of roughly 50 black guys decided to beat aguy Ikind of knewnearly to death in a parking lot. He's alive because I got there with a surefire light and my hand on a holstered handgun. Fortunately for me (since this was not a very thought out plan) this detered the croud and they backed off. I may have been able to rack the slide.

3. A 300 pound (and not an ounce of it fat) drunken native american was about to throw a guy I knew off of a balcony at a hotel. I tried to calm him down since he didn't realize what he was doing. He decided to put down the guy and take his anger out on me. After knocking the wind out of me with a kick to the chest, I tried to calm him down with a stereotypical "not my fight" comment, only to be answered by another kick to the chest. I felt that I would be dead if this went on much longer so I drew down on him and he stopped. I could not have racked the slide.

4. A guy stumbled out of a bar that shared the parking lot of the gas station I was pumping at. He and his friend threw some stuff at cars and banged on the car behind me, scaring the girl in it. I decided to leave and avoid trouble. As I was trying to leave the guy decided he was going to kick my ass (since I was another guy, and for no other reason). He broke the window of my car and tried to pull me out of it. His face met the muzzle of my sig and he backed down. I could not have racked the slide.

5.I was working at a night club. I was in the parking lot when a bunch of people started screaming and running toward the club. A black "gangsta" came across the parking lot with a Mac11 in his hand. He stood a few feet away from a scared crowd of about 30 people, waving his machinepistol at them and yelling something in gangsta. I was about 20 yards away baracaded behind a car with my sigp220 .45trained on his head. I was unconfident about the shot, since it had to count, and I didn't want him to notice me. I wouldn't have been comfortable racking the slide. Fortunately, he heard sirens and ran before I had to make a choice. I was scared and spent a lot of time at the range after that, building my confidence.

Anyway, there it is. Long story short, I don't work in night clubs anymore, and I stay away from people and situationsthat make me uncomfortable. I'm sure I get to enjoy some flaming now, since there is nothing I can do that isn't a mistake once picked appart by forum dwellers, but whatever. I can take it.

Remind me to never hang out with you. :what: Man! YOU ATTRACT TROUBLE!

Seriously, though, I'm not bashing you, just some light hearted humor... but you're the poster-child for armed self-defense... you've defended yourself, other times you've defended others and ALL without firing a shot!

Nicely handled situations BTW (took a couple kicks, tried to drive away etc) It shows you have restraint.

cloudcroft · Oct 17, 2007

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Mainsail,

You CAN train for the unexpected in little things that happen every day and which have nothing to do with guns, self-defense, etc..

But if my comments "border on silly," you keep doing what you've been doing.

Some people get it, most don't.

Good luck,

-- John D.

Mainsail · Oct 17, 2007

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cloudcroft wrote:

But if my comments "border on silly," you keep doing what you've been doing.

Uh…no. I only found the blanket statement that if you do not have time to cycle the action on your pistol to mean you screwed something up in ‘other areas’ to be silly. That’s why my quote included only that one line. The rest of your post I found insightful.

cloudcroft · Oct 17, 2007

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Okay...

But you CAN rack a slide pretty fast you know, even with one hand. Some people can even dothat faster than someone drawing a cocked-and-locked gun.

As for me, there's always one in the chamber.

I was just saying that for people who do NOT want one in the chamber, it's not THAT much slower to get into action.

I've been criticized for using an ankle holster, because it takes SO LONG to get to my gun. But as I said, it's LOTS FASTER than having to go to my car or home to get it. Works for me.

Regards,

-- John D.

Demarest · Oct 17, 2007

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cloudcroft wrote:

But you CAN rack a slide pretty fast you know, even with one hand.

That's not true of somebody just sitting around in their living room. It certainly wouldn't be true of somebody that just had an adrenaline dump to save their own life.

cloudcroft · Oct 17, 2007

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Maybe you can't, but other people can...I've seen them do it (but I can't because I'm not at their level). Also, it's a question of just how far you want to go with your training. Most people won't put in the effort.

As for "sitting around in your living room" and you've no time to rack a slide, again, you messed up elsewhere...got drunk and left your front door open or what?

Have fun,

-- John D.

CA_Libertarian · Oct 17, 2007

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Legba wrote:

DO NOT EVER reach for a gun during a police stop, unless and until instructed to do so, and only then handle it exactly in the manner so directed - permit or not. They will kill you otherwise. No joke.

-ljp

Sometimes they'll kill you even when following instructions. If a LEO asked me to hand him my firearm, I would politely refuse and give the LEO *permission to take it directly from my holster.

(*In CA, statute requires surrending your firearm for inspection while OC'ing because loaded carry is illegal in most public places. If this statute did not exist, I would refuse the unlawful search/seizure and they would have to arrest me before taking my firearm.)

expvideo · Oct 17, 2007

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IdahoCorsair wrote:

Remind me to never hang out with you. :what: Man! YOU ATTRACT TROUBLE!

Seriously, though, I'm not bashing you, just some light hearted humor... but you're the poster-child for armed self-defense... you've defended yourself, other times you've defended others and ALL without firing a shot!

Nicely handled situations BTW (took a couple kicks, tried to drive away etc) It shows you have restraint.

What's funny is that I'm polite and friendly to everyone. I guess big, mean, scary people just don't like me. Anyway all of these problems seemed to disappear after I stopped working in night clubs. There's a lot of violence that surrounds them, and I think it's common knowledge that being on 2nd ave of seattle (or anywhere for that matter) at 2:30am is not a good idea in the first place.

Now that I work a 9-5 kind of job in an office, I *gasp* don't run into dangerous situations/people at all. I never went looking for trouble, but when I worked nights at a club, trouble seemed to have a pretty easy time finding me. So if you're in bed by 10, you probably will never have to worry about having these problems.

bayboy42 · Oct 17, 2007

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cloudcroft wrote:

Maybe you can't, but other people can...I've seen them do it (but I can't because I'm not at their level). Also, it's a question of just how far you want to go with your training. Most people won't put in the effort.

As for "sitting around in your living room" and you've no time to rack a slide, again, you messed up elsewhere...got drunk and left your front door open or what?

Have fun,

-- John D.

Heres is my whole problem with the "time it takes to rack a slide". Even the people I've met that can do it "fast" do so working under the assumption that both hands are available to rack the slide! What happens when only one hand is available to rack it..........do these "fast rackers" teach themselves to do it that fast using the sole of their shoe......or their belt.......or the edge of a table..........with their weak hand???

cloudcroft · Oct 17, 2007

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Sure, we all can come up with the worst situation possible to complicate things, can't we. Or assorted Gremlins doing this or that to us in our time of crisis.

But here's my take on it: If some screwup or shortcoming on my part -- either with my weapon (what condition I carry it in, a dud round, stovepipe, safety sticks, etc.) or with my tactics (I wasn't aware of my surroundings and got bushwhacked)cause me tobuy the ranch, I don't care...it was my time to check out and it's no big deal to me! In fact, I would probably be relieved it's all over down here on this planet. It's got to be God's will if something wrong happens just at the very instantI need things to go right. So, I do what I can how I can...and don't worry AT ALL about "what ifs." Even debating assorted "scenarios" is a complete waste of time to me.

That's how I look at it...if something goes wrong, I just die. It's that simple.

But that's just me...and I'm insane (and I have a VA card to prove it)...so please just disregard my posts.

-- John D.

expvideo · Oct 17, 2007

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cloudcroft wrote:

Sure, we all can come up with the worst situation possible to complicate things, can't we. Or assorted Gremlins doing this or that to us in our time of crisis.

But here's my take on it: If some screwup or shortcoming on my part -- either with my weapon (what condition I carry it in, a dud round, stovepipe, safety sticks, etc.) or with my tactics (I wasn't aware of my surroundings and got bushwhacked)cause me tobuy the ranch, I don't care...it was my time to check out and it's no big deal to me! In fact, I would probably be relieved it's all over down here on this planet. It's got to be God's will if something wrong happens just at the very instantI need things to go right. So, I do what I can how I can...and don't worry AT ALL about "what ifs." Even debating assorted "scenarios" is a complete waste of time to me.

That's how I look at it...if something goes wrong, I just die. It's that simple.

But that's just me...and I'm insane (and I have a VA card to prove it)...so please just disregard my posts.

-- John D.

Yes, Alah Akbar.

FiremanJoe · Oct 17, 2007

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Well fwiw,

I Used to carry with the thought I can Rack it an be ready, and felt it was safer, however, as EXP related, (wow EXP Wild stories!) we can't always be that ready to not be that ready. It takes time to get more comfortable with the fact hey I got one loaded round ready to go, so safer handling techniques with your firearm get inbred, Finger control for one. practice the finger out an down away on normal things like when you pick up a ordinary object, keep yourtriger finger out an flat along it. Having had a coupleclose calls, draws,I am definitly seen the light of keeping one in the pipe, seconds count, and unless you practice at the range every day to be like quick draw magraw, you need to be prepared, and just be saftey concious. I always kept the chamber empty, and I havecarried the same gun since I was in high school, on bike trips, camping, hotels, etc... Thinking it was better, I believe now that it wasn't. Now that I can and do carry 16/7......... (16 instead of 24. = - 8 hours at work. or unless partying.)

My 2 cents...

Joe in Cinci.

Demarest · Oct 17, 2007

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@cloudcroft: Blame the guilty, not the victim.

bourneshooter · Oct 17, 2007

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FiremanJoe wrote:

Well fwiw,

I Used to carry with the thought I can Rack it an be ready, and felt it was safer, however, as EXP related, (wow EXP Wild stories!) we can't always be that ready to not be that ready. It takes time to get more comfortable with the fact hey I got one loaded round ready to go, so safer handling techniques with your firearm get inbred, Finger control for one. practice the finger out an down away on normal things like when you pick up a ordinary object, keep yourtriger finger out an flat along it. Having had a coupleclose calls, draws,I am definitly seen the light of keeping one in the pipe, seconds count, and unless you practice at the range every day to be like quick draw magraw, you need to be prepared, and just be saftey concious. I always kept the chamber empty, and I havecarried the same gun since I was in high school, on bike trips, camping, hotels, etc... Thinking it was better, I believe now that it wasn't. Now that I can and do carry 16/7......... (16 instead of 24. = - 8 hours at work. or unless partying.)

My 2 cents...

Joe in Cinci.

If your local laws (stupid as they are) require the sidearm to be sans round in the chamber, then Israeli Carry (Mag in, nothing in chamber) but move ASAP to a free state where we can carry locked cocked and ready to rock!

kparker · Oct 18, 2007

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An additional problem with the OP is that his gun has a round chambered at home, but empty chamber while out-and-about. That is a very bad idea. You need to do it the same way every time, so when the crisis hits you can respond automatically. Having two different modes of carry greatly increases your chances of either pulling the trigger on an empty chamber, or else wasting time ejecting a perfectly good round.

HankT · Oct 18, 2007

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Dutch Uncle wrote:

I'll add to what expvidep said. Carrying with an empty chamber can decrease your safety. Negligent discharges almost always happen when someone is handling a gun....

Carrying with a round in the chamber can also decrease your safety:

Driver handling gun shoots himself

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/1167.html

Some people blamed restaurant laws for the guy shooting himself in the thigh. Some people blamed the public's uncomfortability with guns for the hole in the guy's leg. Others blamed the antis for being, well, being antis and causing the mischief they do so well...

I blame the shooter who had one in the pipe.

Do what you want. Millions of people carry in Condition 3. They do alright.

HankT · Oct 18, 2007

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expvideo wrote:

I used to work ina rough neighborhood at night. Of the (let me recollect for a second)4.5 times I had to draw down, only about half of them would have worked well with racking the slide. I never had to shoot, but some of those situations would not have worked well with racking the slide.

1. I was walking down second ave when a bum pulled what appeared to be a knife, yelled at me and started to run at me (no reason whatsoever) at 2:30am. I drew and had enough distance that if I had to I could have racked the slide.

Did the bum actually have a knife?

open carry question from a new guy

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