open carry question from a new guy

Demarest · Oct 18, 2007

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HankT wrote:

Carrying with a round in the chamber can also decrease your safety:

Uh... no. Did you even read the article YOU linked to?

Drown was trying to place his gun in a safety mode when it went off

Click to expand...

Guns don't "went off." The guy was not exercising good muzzle discipline for sure and probably poor trigger discipline at the same time. Are you really trying to use ONE man's mistakes as your proof that having one in the chamber decreases your safety? Rule one is "every gun is loaded." Those who keep this in mind will never shoot themselves or otherwise decrease their safety.

In fact, I say they decrease their safety by not having one chambered. Sure having a rock is better than no rock, but rocks are free.

expvideo · Oct 18, 2007

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HankT wrote:

expvideo wrote:

I used to work ina rough neighborhood at night. Of the (let me recollect for a second)4.5 times I had to draw down, only about half of them would have worked well with racking the slide. I never had to shoot, but some of those situations would not have worked well with racking the slide.

1. I was walking down second ave when a bum pulled what appeared to be a knife, yelled at me and started to run at me (no reason whatsoever) at 2:30am. I drew and had enough distance that if I had to I could have racked the slide.

Click to expand...

Did the bum actually have a knife?

It was darkand I'm not sure what it was, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't really a knife, just a knife shaped piece of metal. I am sure that he wanted me to think it was a knife, but it didn't strike me asa real knife when he dropped it. He was still about 20 feet away or so. There was construction in the area, and I think it may have been a piece of scrap metal, but again I'm just speculating.

Bravo_Sierra · Oct 18, 2007

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Rick9mm wrote:

Hey guys, im new here and i have read some of the posts. I have not seen anywhere, so far, a basic part of OC. My question is What is the deal with the magazine and bullets while OCing? I dont think you should have a round in the chamber, but is it legal to carry your weapon with a loaded magazine in the gun? It only makes sense to have the loaded magazine in the gun since you have the gun to use for self defence and your attacker is not going to wait for you to load up? Please fill me in on this information. Thanks a lot guys.

P.S. One more member from AZ.

Rick

This is my last statement on this topic.

I have been OCing for 4 years now.. NEVER in that time has my gun "went off." I am 28 and have been shooting since I was 7. never seen or had an "accident."

Not saying it can't happen, but it probably won't in my case.

Carry your gun (loaded), and a first aid kit!

HankT · Oct 18, 2007

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Demarest wrote:

HankT wrote:

Carrying with a round in the chamber can also decrease your safety:

Click to expand...

Uh... no. Did you even read the article YOU linked to?

Drown was trying to place his gun in a safety mode when it went off

Click to expand...

Guns don't "went off." The guy was not exercising good muzzle discipline for sure and probably poor trigger discipline at the same time. Are you really trying to use ONE man's mistakes as your proof that having one in the chamber decreases your safety? Rule one is "every gun is loaded." Those who keep this in mind will never shoot themselves or otherwise decrease their safety.

In fact, I say they decrease their safety by not having one chambered. Sure having a rock is better than no rock, but rocks are free.

Nah, the story is just an exemplar. People have accidents. People who don't have one inthe pipe, generally, cannot have that accident.

Millions of people carry in Condition 3. They can't all be wrong.

People should choose which carry condition is good for them. It's always a tradeoff of benefits/costs.....

Beware the proponent who says his method has no costs, only benefits. There's always simplism behind such a claim....

Basic Guy · Oct 18, 2007

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When I am carrying or even when I stash a pistol in the truck/car/home for possible deployment it is always chamber loaded, safety on. I remember way back how it used to feel a bit “unsafe” – and I let that feeling stay to ensure I ALWAYS treat EVERY gun like it is loaded.

But I have also trained myself to be able to load a semi-auto with one hand. I can transition from a regular grip to one with my thumb in the trigger guard, index finger in front of the front sight, and middle finger on the front of the slide under the muzzle – and back to a normal grip. I can do this in just about 1.5 seconds with any 1911 and a few other pistols I own.

I don’t ever plan to use this as part of my presentation under any circumstances. I developed it just in case I need to rack the slide in some dire situation when my other hand is occupied.

Demarest · Oct 19, 2007

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HankT wrote:

People who don't have one inthe pipe, generally, cannot have that accident.

People not pulling the trigger cannot have that accident. People not pointing the gun at themselves cannot have that accident. People who "know" that all guns are loaded cannot have that accident. Safety is in education. It is a frame of mind. Not the physical restriction of one's self.

HankT wrote:

Millions of people carry in Condition 3. They can't all be wrong.

Now you've lowered your argument that because a number of people do something, it is not only correct, but you believe it's proof of what's best. Even if I agreed with your end, I'd be constrained to point out the gaping hole in that logic.

HankT wrote:

People should choose which carry condition is good for them.

Something they cannot do if they receive bogus information from people who should know better.

HankT · Oct 23, 2007

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expvideo wrote:

HankT wrote:

expvideo wrote:

I used to work ina rough neighborhood at night. Of the (let me recollect for a second)4.5 times I had to draw down, only about half of them would have worked well with racking the slide. I never had to shoot, but some of those situations would not have worked well with racking the slide.

1. I was walking down second ave when a bum pulled what appeared to be a knife, yelled at me and started to run at me (no reason whatsoever) at 2:30am. I drew and had enough distance that if I had to I could have racked the slide.

Click to expand...

Did the bum actually have a knife?

Click to expand...

It was darkand I'm not sure what it was, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't really a knife, just a knife shaped piece of metal. I am sure that he wanted me to think it was a knife, but it didn't strike me asa real knife when he dropped it. He was still about 20 feet away or so. There was construction in the area, and I think it may have been a piece of scrap metal, but again I'm just speculating.

So some guy saw you walking down 2nd Ave in the dark, started to run at you and displayed a knife shaped piece of metal, yelling at you, then stopped about 20 feet away.

What did he yell and why did he stop? Did he see your gun? Did you yell something back at him?

When did he drop the object? Did you pick it up to inspect it?

How did the bum depart? What did he communicate to you after he stopped about 20 feet away from you?

Do you actually think that bum with that object was a threat to you?

expvideo · Oct 23, 2007

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HankT wrote:

So some guy saw you walking down 2nd Ave in the dark, started to run at you and displayed a knife shaped piece of metal, yelling at you, then stopped about 20 feet away.

What did he yell and why did he stop? Did he see your gun? Did you yell something back at him?

When did he drop the object? Did you pick it up to inspect it?

How did the bum depart? What did he communicate to you after he stopped about 20 feet away from you?

Do you actually think that bum with that object was a threat to you?

Let me start with this: I don't appreciate your tone, and I think that you are only attempting to draw skepticism to my posts. that being said, let me elaborate.

I had just gotten off of work at the club, and it was 2:30 in the morning. I was walking down the street with my hands in my pockets not doing anything upsetting to anyone. A bum-looking man with abottle of rum under his arm started yelling incoherantly at me from about 50 feet away. I attempted to cross the street and get out of his way, but he turned toward me and pulled out a piece of metal that he held like a knife. It was too dark and distant for me to see the detail of what he was holding, but he obviously wanted me to think it was a knife. He yelled at me again, incoherantly, and started to run at me. I reached back and put my hand on my gun. Just as it cleared leather, the guy stopped, realizing what I was doing, and dropped the "knife". I didn't inspect it, because my primary concern was putting distance between myself and him. I left the scene and that is that. This happened two years ago, it was dark, and I was tired. This is all of the detail I remember, so I hope it's sufficient.

Any more questions?

HankT · Oct 23, 2007

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expvideo wrote:

HankT wrote:

So some guy saw you walking down 2nd Ave in the dark, started to run at you and displayed a knife shaped piece of metal, yelling at you, then stopped about 20 feet away.

What did he yell and why did he stop? Did he see your gun? Did you yell something back at him?

When did he drop the object? Did you pick it up to inspect it?

How did the bum depart? What did he communicate to you after he stopped about 20 feet away from you?

Do you actually think that bum with that object was a threat to you?

Click to expand...

Let me start with this: I don't appreciate your tone, and I think that you are only attempting to draw skepticism to my posts. that being said, let me elaborate.

I had just gotten off of work at the club, and it was 2:30 in the morning. I was walking down the street with my hands in my pockets not doing anything upsetting to anyone. A bum-looking man with abottle of rum under his arm started yelling incoherantly at me from about 50 feet away. I attempted to cross the street and get out of his way, but he turned toward me and pulled out a piece of metal that he held like a knife. It was too dark and distant for me to see the detail of what he was holding, but he obviously wanted me to think it was a knife. He yelled at me again, incoherantly, and started to run at me. I reached back and put my hand on my gun. Just as it cleared leather, the guy stopped, realizing what I was doing, and dropped the "knife". I didn't inspect it, because my primary concern was putting distance between myself and him. I left the scene and that is that. This happened two years ago, it was dark, and I was tired. This is all of the detail I remember, so I hope it's sufficient.

Any more questions?

Yes.

Do you actually think that bum with that object was a threat to you?

How fast of a runner would you say the bum was compared to how fast you could run at the time?

Also, were thereany intoxicants in you at the time? If so, how much?

Did you point your gun at the bum?

expvideo · Oct 23, 2007

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HankT wrote:

expvideo wrote:

HankT wrote:

So some guy saw you walking down 2nd Ave in the dark, started to run at you and displayed a knife shaped piece of metal, yelling at you, then stopped about 20 feet away.

What did he yell and why did he stop? Did he see your gun? Did you yell something back at him?

When did he drop the object? Did you pick it up to inspect it?

How did the bum depart? What did he communicate to you after he stopped about 20 feet away from you?

Do you actually think that bum with that object was a threat to you?

Click to expand...

Let me start with this: I don't appreciate your tone, and I think that you are only attempting to draw skepticism to my posts. that being said, let me elaborate.

I had just gotten off of work at the club, and it was 2:30 in the morning. I was walking down the street with my hands in my pockets not doing anything upsetting to anyone. A bum-looking man with abottle of rum under his arm started yelling incoherantly at me from about 50 feet away. I attempted to cross the street and get out of his way, but he turned toward me and pulled out a piece of metal that he held like a knife. It was too dark and distant for me to see the detail of what he was holding, but he obviously wanted me to think it was a knife. He yelled at me again, incoherantly, and started to run at me. I reached back and put my hand on my gun. Just as it cleared leather, the guy stopped, realizing what I was doing, and dropped the "knife". I didn't inspect it, because my primary concern was putting distance between myself and him. I left the scene and that is that. This happened two years ago, it was dark, and I was tired. This is all of the detail I remember, so I hope it's sufficient.

Any more questions?

Click to expand...

Yes.

Do you actually think that bum with that object was a threat to you?

How fast of a runner would you say the bum was compared to how fast you could run at the time?

Also, were thereany intoxicants in you at the time? If so, how much?

Did you point your gun at the bum?

You're baiting, but I'll answer your questions.

Do you actually think that bum with that object was a threat to you?

Yes, at the time I felt that the bum was an immediatethreat to me.

How fast of a runner would you say the bum was compared to how fast you could run at the time?

I don't know, I didn't attempt to run from him, and I was in no way obligated to.

Also, were thereany intoxicants in you at the time? If so, how much?

No, there were not.

Did you point your gun at the bum?

I already answered this question. The bum stopped being a threat as my gun cleared leather, so I didn't have to point it at him. So no, I did not.

unrequited · Oct 23, 2007

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HankT making friends again. : (

SouthernBoy · Oct 23, 2007

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unrequited wrote:

HankT making friends again. : (

HankT makes lots of friends.

I like the part about running away from the threat. In a number of states (not sure how many, but Virginia is definitely one), a victim has no duty to retreat if he is where he is legally. Now this doesn't mean that there are certainly times when prudence may dictate leaving the area to be in the best interests of the potential victim. But here in Virginia, you may stand your ground and meet force with repelling force if necessary.

And then there is the subject of running. When you turn your back and take off, you present a greater target to your assailant, not so much as surface area, but more along the lines of diminished ability to resist an attack. In a word, you submit yourself to the mercy and whim of the attacker. Not a good or smart thing most of the time. For myself, I can no longer run away since my knees and legs have taken life's beatings and in more recent months, have made it clear to me that other avenues of escape or resistance must be considered.

Somehow, I find it most curious how there are some in the gun culture who dance to the PC tune of give-the-benefit-of-doubt-to-the-BG. I don't buy this and in that moment when one is facing the business end of a firearm or multiple fists, legs, and handheld weapons, any concern or imagine compassion for the BG's will only get you seriously injured or killed.

expvideo · Oct 24, 2007

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SouthernBoy wrote:

unrequited wrote:

HankT making friends again. : (

Click to expand...

HankT makes lots of friends.

I like the part about running away from the threat. In a number of states (not sure how many, but Virginia is definitely one), a victim has no duty to retreat if he is where he is legally. Now this doesn't mean that there are certainly times when prudence may dictate leaving the area to be in the best interests of the potential victim. But here in Virginia, you may stand your ground and meet force with repelling force if necessary.

And then there is the subject of running. When you turn your back and take off, you present a greater target to your assailant, not so much as surface area, but more along the lines of diminished ability to resist an attack. In a word, you submit yourself to the mercy and whim of the attacker. Not a good or smart thing most of the time. For myself, I can no longer run away since my knees and legs have taken life's beatings and in more recent months, have made it clear to me that other avenues of escape or resistance must be considered.

Somehow, I find it most curious how there are some in the gun culture who dance to the PC tune of give-the-benefit-of-doubt-to-the-BG. I don't buy this and in that moment when one is facing the business end of a firearm or multiple fists, legs, and handheld weapons, any concern or imagine compassion for the BG's will only get you seriously injured or killed.

I agree. Besides, whether or not I can outruna potentially dangerousattackeris not a gamble I'm willing to take, nor should I be expected to.

Demarest · Oct 24, 2007

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SouthernBoy wrote:

I like the part about running away from the threat. In a number of states (not sure how many, but Virginia is definitely one), a victim has no duty to retreat if he is where he is legally. Now this doesn't mean that there are certainly times when prudence may dictate leaving the area to be in the best interests of the potential victim.

That's something that can be looked at AFTERwards, on a case by case basis. To outlaw it ahead of time is unfounded. In fact, requiring would be victims to turn their backs to their assailants is not unlike disarming them in the first place. If you're incapacitated because your government required you to tactically surrender instead of stopping the threat and you complied, now the bad guy could have a larger arsenal thanks to the acquisition of YOUR gun.

Isn't it sad that some of our leaders are so callous about human life that we have to make sure arguments "for the sake of the gun"?

SouthernBoy · Oct 24, 2007

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Demarest wrote:

SouthernBoy wrote:

I like the part about running away from the threat. In a number of states (not sure how many, but Virginia is definitely one), a victim has no duty to retreat if he is where he is legally. Now this doesn't mean that there are certainly times when prudence may dictate leaving the area to be in the best interests of the potential victim.

Click to expand...

That's something that can be looked at AFTERwards, on a case by case basis. To outlaw it ahead of time is unfounded. In fact, requiring would be victims to turn their backs to their assailants is not unlike disarming them in the first place. If you're incapacitated because your government required you to tactically surrender instead of stopping the threat and you complied, now the bad guy could have a larger arsenal thanks to the acquisition of YOUR gun.

Isn't it sad that some of our leaders are so callous about human life that we have to make sure arguments "for the sake of the gun"?

Yes it is, sir. To demonstate how really out of touch and dangerous these people are, sample this little ditty.

The stupid radical femi-nazis would never dream of recommending a woman to carry a gun as a deterent and weapon to use against an assailant. Now because they have an adversion to guns and not because they might be anti self-defense nuts. No, not that obvious at all.

The reason is because were they to recommend such action to their constituents, there is the danger (in their minds) of aligning themselves with a stance which is largely believed to be conservative (and male) in nature. So they are perfectly willing to see the lives of women sacraficed on the alter of feminist agenda rather submit to the obvious.

ace1001 · Nov 11, 2007

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I was instructed to place my gun on the dash immediately upon being stopped. This is the state AG office in Kansas. Ace

ace1001 · Nov 11, 2007

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I think you should all consider that most safeties don't render the seer inoperable, just the trigger. My grandfather, a gunsmith, could set off any gun on safe with a rubber mallet because he knew how to jump the seer. Easily, I might add. A revolver with a transfer bar, hammer down is as close to safe as they get. Ace

ace1001 · Nov 11, 2007

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Those who carry locked and loaded, hammer down...point in safe direction, hit hammer lightly with rubber mallet. Doesn't take much. The SAA boys load only 5 for a reason. Ace

open carry question from a new guy

Demarest

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expvideo

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Bravo_Sierra

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HankT

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Basic Guy

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Demarest

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HankT

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expvideo

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HankT

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expvideo

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unrequited

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SouthernBoy

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expvideo

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Demarest

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SouthernBoy

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ace1001

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ace1001

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ace1001

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