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Thread: Who's asking about your gun?

  1. #1
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    I have only been asked one time by a stranger if I am a cop while carrying openly. But I have lost track of the amount of times friends and family members have quiestioned why I carry. One of my sisters brings it up every time she sees me OC. It gets a little old; but I was just wondering if you guys have had similar experiences.

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    What does your sister have to say? What are her position and argument(s)?

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    I hate to sound like a dick, but she doesn't really have anything intelligent to say on the subject. It isn't like she has put a lot of thought into it and is anti-gun, she is just unfamiliar with firearms and is scared of them. A couple of weeks ago I rode up to my family's cabin with her and her husband and I laid my Benelli in the backseat, she asked me if it "was on". One time she opined that if I used my gun in self defense I would be charged with premeditated murder because I thought ahead to bring a gun. On another occasion she asked me if cops ask me about my gun, to which I replied, "Do I ask cops about their guns?", a friend of mine chimed in "yeah, well your not a cop". It gets old conversing with people who feel LEO's are the only ones special enough to exercise the 2A. From other family members I think they are mainly concerned I am doing something illegal and am putting myself at risk of criminal charges.

    But as baffled as they are that I would walk the streets armed, I am equally amazed that anyone would go about their day with no means whatsoever of protecting themselves. I guess I'm wierd!

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    I agree with your confusion. I was at a doctor's office the other day and a young couple sat next to me in the waiting room. The guy was the same age as me, 23, and the girl seemed to be around that age as well. They had a9 month old baby, and she was absolutely amazing. She smiled and was the happiest, most outgoingbaby I've ever seen.

    So being young and engaged, I'm thinking about how I want to be a dad, and all of those thoughts that young engaged people think. I got to wondering: How can you have something that important and fragile and not have the means to protect it? I mean, seriously, how can anyone truely love a child and not want to be able to guarantee it's safety?

    I thought for a moment what a good analogy would be. I'm an analogy kind of person. I decided to compare it to walking around with a clear breifcase full of $100 bills. Everyone can see it, and it's unprotected. Bad people might try to take it from you, or threaten to take it to get something else out of you. Would you walk around the city with something as important to you as $100,000 in a clear case without a gun? Don't you think that baby is more important than the hypothetical breifcase?

    Maybe it's a bad analogy, but I just don't understand how anyone can have a child and not want to have the means to protect it.

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    @JB: You should tell them that they are Americans, which means they have more freedoms than most everywhere else in the world. Therefore, they shouldn't WANT there to be a privileged class. If they don't value their lives enough to invest in their own safety, they sort of forfeit the right to expect their safety to be covered by others. Which is a good thing because case law has established time and time again that police do not have to protect you.

    The trick is to walk them through it. She says you'll be charged with pre-meditation, ask her to cite one case. Then when she's t-boned by logic, drop a bunch of cases on her where the defender was not question, was exonerated, or was celebrated.

    Most importantly, invite her to the range. Share with her the basics of firearm safety. Tell her about criminals that attack with knives, with screwdrivers. Tell her about the times when the robee (I just said it, so yes, it's a word :P) wields a firearm and diffuses a crime... when police are nowhere to be seen. You can share with her two of my stories where I had a gun pointed at my attackers and never even had to put my finger in the trigger guard. When I called the police the last time and TOLD them that I thought ahead to bring a gun and pointed it at other humans, she was far more interested in physical descriptions of my attackers and their direction of flight.

    There are tons of ways to use logic to make your point. The key is guiding the way and let THEM figure it out for themselves. Point out that criminals know how to spot where a policeman is because they're uniformed and drive in marked vehicles. Poin out that you respect her own personal choice, but that even she benefits from statewide concealment as no longer can the bad guys spot where resistance is. Not to mention that the ante is upped from a twisted system they might be able to manipulate IF they're caught to now possibly being dead on the scene.

    From my perspective, she's free to choose as she pleases. My concerns are that A) her choice is based on misinformation and lack of information and B) that if too enthusiastic, her decision could infringe upon the rights of others to decide for themselves. You can help with both. I wish you luck with that. I've helped and/or been party to a helping force in spreading the word more than a few times now. It's a good feeling that we all benefit from Well, everybody but the criminals

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    JB wrote:
    I hate to sound like a dick, but she doesn't really have anything intelligent to say on the subject. It isn't like she has put a lot of thought into it and is anti-gun, she is just unfamiliar with firearms and is scared of them. A couple of weeks ago I rode up to my family's cabin with her and her husband and I laid my Benelli in the backseat, she asked me if it "was on". One time she opined that if I used my gun in self defense I would be charged with premeditated murder because I thought ahead to bring a gun. On another occasion she asked me if cops ask me about my gun, to which I replied, "Do I ask cops about their guns?", a friend of mine chimed in "yeah, well your not a cop". It gets old conversing with people who feel LEO's are the only ones special enough to exercise the 2A. From other family members I think they are mainly concerned I am doing something illegal and am putting myself at risk of criminal charges.

    But as baffled as they are that I would walk the streets armed, I am equally amazed that anyone would go about their day with no means whatsoever of protecting themselves. I guess I'm wierd!
    My wife is exactly the same . I asked her what I should do if someone violently breaks in the house. Should we offer them a frosty brew and cower in the corner while they ransack the house?? Call the cops and wait for them to show up?

    She keeps saying that crime would decrease if fewer and fewer people had guns. I fire back that criminals obtain guns illegally so it doesn't matter. I could rattle off all sorts of examples where they tried this and failed. DC, NYC, CA, IL, etc....

    I said even if someone could wave a wand and take guns away from all the criminals they would still find a way to commit armed crimes. I've more or less given up arguing with her at this point.

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    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."- Benjamin Franklin

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    My friends have only asked once, and all of my family whoare legal to carry, does so. If friends keep asking, punch them in the face, becuse if you've told them once, a repeated question is retorical, very rude, and deserving of a shot to the jaw.

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    soloban wrote:
    My wife is exactly the same . I asked her what I should do if someone violently breaks in the house. Should we offer them a frosty brew and cower in the corner while they ransack the house?? Call the cops and wait for them to show up?

    She keeps saying that crime would decrease if fewer and fewer people had guns. I fire back that criminals obtain guns illegally so it doesn't matter. I could rattle off all sorts of examples where they tried this and failed. DC, NYC, CA, IL, etc....

    I said even if someone could wave a wand and take guns away from all the criminals they would still find a way to commit armed crimes. I've more or less given up arguing with her at this point.
    I just picked up John Lott's Freedomnomics and it has a lot of interesting gun data. In particular I liked this quote:

    "During the 1990s, for example, assault victims who used a gun for self-protection were injured 3.6 percent of the time. This contrasts with 5.4 percent of those who ran or drove away, 12.6 percent of those who screamed, and 13.6 percent of those who threatened the attacker without a weapon. Those who took no self-protective action at all fared the worst --- 55.2 percent of them were injured." (Lott, pg 141)

    It might be something you could consider looking at to try to convince her.

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    JB wrote:
    SNIP ...but I was just wondering if you guys have had similar experiences.
    Only from friends who have a hidden disagreement with it.

    You can usually tell by how it is asked.

    You'll have to dig up and handle the actual disagreement. Maybe it just makes them uncomfortable. Maybe they worry that others will be made uncomfortable. Maybe...

    Just have a one-on-one discussion that finds their disagreement, as opposed to discussing the pro's and con's. Just keepgently asking for their objectionsuntil you get to the real objection. You'll know once you've got it.

    It may also be, particularly with siblings and spouses, that they don't really care--they just use it because they know it gets under your skin.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    If someone asks me why I carry a gun, I simply just ask them why they have car insurance. Are they going to go look for a car accident to get themselves into?

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    There was a time when there were no guns. The strong overpowered the weak, women were raped by men, and children were murdered along with the rest of the family because they were the wrong religion or race.

    With the presence of guns, everyone has the same ability to enjoy their lives and live as they wish without fear of the above things. If someone could explain to mewhy a 110 lb woman should have to defend herself against a 220 lb man with her bare hands, then I will support the idea of less guns in civilian hands. Until that day, I celebrate the fact that I can live peacefully in this world, without fear of someone hurting the ones I love.



    (disclaimer: I am not a woman, I'm just making a point)

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    Thanks for all of the feedback. I did try to explain my reasons for carry to another sister but she just asked me when I turned in to Ted Nugent (which I took as a compliment). I own a copy of Lott's More Guns Less Crime, maybe I'll suggest she reads it. She probably won't finish it though, it has a lot of data and is a tough read if you don't really want to get through it all. I may start showing her the Armed Citizen column in American Riflemen. It's the first thing I flip to and it's easy to put yourself in the shoes of the people who were attacked. I guess my biggest debate is deciding if I want to make it my job to educate everyone around me about the Bill of Rights. My first reaction is to ignore any snide remarks about OC, maybe I'll be more proactive in educating friends and family.

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    JB wrote:
    I hate to sound like a dick, but she doesn't really have anything intelligent to say on the subject. It isn't like she has put a lot of thought into it and is anti-gun, she is just unfamiliar with firearms and is scared of them. A couple of weeks ago I rode up to my family's cabin with her and her husband and I laid my Benelli in the backseat, she asked me if it "was on". One time she opined that if I used my gun in self defense I would be charged with premeditated murder because I thought ahead to bring a gun. On another occasion she asked me if cops ask me about my gun, to which I replied, "Do I ask cops about their guns?", a friend of mine chimed in "yeah, well your not a cop". It gets old conversing with people who feel LEO's are the only ones special enough to exercise the 2A. From other family members I think they are mainly concerned I am doing something illegal and am putting myself at risk of criminal charges.

    But as baffled as they are that I would walk the streets armed, I am equally amazed that anyone would go about their day with no means whatsoever of protecting themselves. I guess I'm weird!
    Weird ? Just the guy everyone will be standing behind when some unforeseen danger occurs.

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    The females in my family are completely befuddled by the gun thing. They - predictably - insist that it's some psycho-sexual compensation "issue." I don't even deny it any more. It got to be a running, if not very clever, joke around the house for a while. I onceasked my sister during her last visit if she had seen my "penis" (work/duty weapon) as I was getting ready for work. She assumed it was a Freudian slip, and it"confirmed" her opinion of the whole thing. Then again, she's an intellectual property lawyer who never slums it in common pleas court, or she might appreciate the practical need for guns a bit more.

    -ljp

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    It seems oddly enough that the girls that are my age that I work for are extremely understanding. They think it's cool, and often ask very legitimate questions.

    That said, my parents are both pretty supportive, and my mom's family is too. Her brother thinks OC is stupid, but he CCs all the time. The only problems I've ever had are out of my sister in law's friends. I actually went to one of these girls' houses OCing, and started playing with my 10 month old nephew, and she freaked out and told me to put the gun in my truck, saying it wasn't safe to have it around the baby. I did because it was her property, but by the time my sister-in-law, brother, and myself had finished talking to her about the irrationality of her actions, she was demanding that I go and get the gun, put it back on, and she probably went and bought her own gun the next day.

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    Maybe I just hang out with better people my age, but....

    I've taught two now ex-girlfriends how to shoot, one guy and his wife, and I'm one of four people I know of at school that infrequently discuss weapons and ammo.

    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Whenever anyone asks me about my desire to own a gun (just two more days!) and accuses me of preparing for something that will "never happen", I ask a few questions:

    -Do you carry a tool kit and spare tire in your car?
    -Do you have a charged cell phone, candles, and a battery-powered radio?
    -Do you have casual sex without condoms? Do you have committed sex without birth control when you aren't trying to concieve?
    -Do you give out your credit card or Social Security numbers over unsecure channels?
    -Do you routinely walk down dark alleys in big cities completely alone?
    -Do you buy more than one roll of toilet paper at a time?

    Usually the rejoiner is that 'Well, guns don't make mugging victims safer.'
    'You just said me being armed was silly, because I was never going to get mugged.'

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    You DO realize you'll have to start spending more time on this forum starting next week, right?
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Kendo_Bunny wrote:
    Whenever anyone asks me about my desire to own a gun (just two more days!) and accuses me of preparing for something that will "never happen", I ask a few questions:

    -Do you carry a tool kit and spare tire in your car?
    -Do you have a charged cell phone, candles, and a battery-powered radio?
    -Do you have casual sex without condoms? Do you have committed sex without birth control when you aren't trying to concieve?
    -Do you give out your credit card or Social Security numbers over unsecure channels?
    -Do you routinely walk down dark alleys in big cities completely alone?
    -Do you buy more than one roll of toilet paper at a time?

    Usually the rejoiner is that 'Well, guns don't make mugging victims safer.'
    'You just said me being armed was silly, because I was never going to get mugged.'
    Pardon me, but I have to ask. Why two more days? Age? State residence? ???

    Just curious. BTW, we are close as in both in the western end of the county. Since Haymarket is only .58 square miles, my guess is you live outside the town limits.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Two more days, because my 21st birthday is tomorrow, and my Dad's taking me to buy my very first gun the day after.

    And yeah, I live on the mountain.

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    Kendo_Bunny wrote:
    Whenever anyone asks me about my desire to own a gun (just two more days!) and accuses me of preparing for something that will "never happen", I ask a few questions:

    -Do you carry a tool kit and spare tire in your car?
    -Do you have a charged cell phone, candles, and a battery-powered radio?
    -Do you have casual sex without condoms? Do you have committed sex without birth control when you aren't trying to concieve?
    -Do you give out your credit card or Social Security numbers over unsecure channels?
    -Do you routinely walk down dark alleys in big cities completely alone?
    -Do you buy more than one roll of toilet paper at a time?

    Usually the rejoiner is that 'Well, guns don't make mugging victims safer.'
    'You just said me being armed was silly, because I was never going to get mugged.'
    I just noticed that I can only answer 2 of these "correctly" myself, and I still carry.

    -ljp

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    If you answer even one of them correctly, then you're just as "paranoid" as someone who carries. That's the point.

    Although when I made that point, some idiot actually argued that he didn't need to carry a spare tire or car tools because "love and understanding are much better than paranoia and living in fear". I asked him when was the last time that love and understanding changed a tire for him, and he didn't respond again.

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    I changed a tire for someone else only yesterday, so it can happen. Still, I was a passenger, so it wasn't quite love and understanding at work as much as practical necessity and the fact that the driver was a techno-tard who couldn't have managed it alone. ;-/

    -ljp

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    Don't forget to bring your b-day gun with you when you come down. :P
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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