• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Security Camera Captures Shootout at South Carolina Store

dkd

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
107
Location
NoVa by way of Chesapeake, Virginia, USA
imported post

BG picked the wrong person to start trouble with



http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=acd_1192566843


CHARLESTON COUNTY, SC -- The Charleston County, South Carolina Solicitor says Omar Brown, an off-duty police officer and mayor candidate, acted appropriately during a gas-station shoot-out. Charleston County Solicitor Scarlett Wilson released 911 calls and the surveillance video Monday. She says the video plays a crucial role in her decision.

Wilson would not say how many shots were fired or who fired first, but she says it doesn't matter because the video shows an officer taking action to protect himself. The images captured on the El Cheapo store surveillance camera look like a scene straight out of a movie. Yet, instead of an actor, you're seeing off-duty cop and mayoral candidate Omar Brown. At least six people called 911 to report the shooting.

One man told the dispatcher, "There's a bunch of shots just been fired here.

There was a black guy running around and someone's shooting the hell out of him." Another caller described the gunshots as "pow, pow, pa pow" while a motorist driving by called 911 screaming, "Holy @#@#. I thought he was gonna shoot me. I was coming by in the truck."

Yet, it was not the calls, but the surveillance video that the solicitor reviewed repeatedly to make her decision.

Wilson said, "I have found Officer Brown acted reasonably and lawfully." Wilson said South Carolina's Castle Doctrine justified Officer Brown's actions.

She said, "A person is not required to wait till his assailant gets the drop on him." That's what Wilson says Antonio Rivers, who appears in a green striped shirt in the video, tried to do.

The video shows Officer Brown reach around Rivers as he was standing at the counter.

Brown grabbed his two snack cakes and a Pepsi, then walked out the door.

Yet, it's that encounter that officials say started the shooting.

Wilson said, "It is so ridiculous. I think most of us had in our minds a shoulder to shoulder bump that can be kind of aggressive. You can barely see any sort of contact."

The video then shows River leaving the counter and rushing to his car.

The solicitor reviewed the tape with News 2 and pointed out River's arms. She said, "Notice how his arms are out and it appears his hands are empty."

Wilson said Rivers went to his car to get a gun, then walked to Brown's Mercedes with his right hand hidden behind his back.

That's when the video shows Brown getting out of his car, firing his gun.

The 911 dispatcher asked one of the callers, "How many gunshots did you hear?" The caller answered, "At least seven." They're shots, according to Wilson, that saved Officer Brown's life.

Investigators found two types of ammunition rounds at the scene. Officer Brown had a .45 Glock that the solicitor says he fired until the threat was eliminated.

Wilson says the Castle Doctrine not only protects officers, but all citizens.

She said everyone has the right to protect themselves, whether it's in their home, their car or a business if they reasonably feel they are in danger.

Yet, River's attorney, Skip Martin, disagrees with the solicitor's decision. In a statement saying, "At no time on the video does Mr. Rivers point or present a firearm. Citizen Brown shot a man multiple times. He too should be prosecuted for his actions."

Officer Brown is on paid leave from the City of Charleston Police Department until the mayoral election. He is using the time to recover from a gunshot wound to the thigh, as well as work on his campaign.
 

Legba

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Messages
1,881
Location
, ,
imported post

Sorry, but there's something comical about a shootout at "El Cheapo." ;-/

-ljp
 

bayboy42

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
897
Location
Gloucester Point, Virginia, USA
imported post

Yet, River's attorney, Skip Martin, disagrees with the solicitor's decision. In a statement saying, "At no time on the video does Mr. Rivers point or present a firearm. Citizen Brown shot a man multiple times. He too should be prosecuted for his actions."

Officer Brown is on paid leave from the City of Charleston Police Department until the mayoral election. He is using the time to recover from a gunshot wound to the thigh, as well as work on his campaign.
Hmmmm.....is this gunshot wound the result of a separate incident, did Brown shoot himself......or is Mr. Rivers' lawyer incorrect?
 

dkd

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
107
Location
NoVa by way of Chesapeake, Virginia, USA
imported post

bayboy42 wrote:
Yet, River's attorney, Skip Martin, disagrees with the solicitor's decision. In a statement saying, "At no time on the video does Mr. Rivers point or present a firearm. Citizen Brown shot a man multiple times. He too should be prosecuted for his actions."

Officer Brown is on paid leave from the City of Charleston Police Department until the mayoral election. He is using the time to recover from a gunshot wound to the thigh, as well as work on his campaign.
Hmmmm.....is this gunshot wound the result of a separate incident, did Brown shoot himself......or is Mr. Rivers' lawyer incorrect?
i would think the lawyer was incorrect, due to the fact that " Investigators found two types of ammunition rounds at the scene"
 

gsh341

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2006
Messages
133
Location
Sioux Falls, South Dakota, USA
imported post

It looked like a clean shoot to me. The punk got offended at nothing, was going to prove how tough he was by getting his gun and got his dumb @$$ shot!!!

Seriously, Officer Brown was wounded and there are two types of casings at the scene. The BG had a gun, planned to use it and did. Luckily Officer Brown was a better shot.
 

bayboy42

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
897
Location
Gloucester Point, Virginia, USA
imported post

I skipped right over the "two types of ammo found" statement. Must learn to read several times before asking questions.......thank yall for clearing it up for me!:banghead:
 

CA_Libertarian

State Researcher
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
2,585
Location
Stanislaus County, California, USA
imported post

Demarest wrote:
Don't beat yourself up too badly. It's healthy to be skeptical of the things you see.
Especially when our public servants are involved, since we often cannot trust the government to always be honest and objective in it's self-evaluations.

In this case, it looks like the off-duty officer did exactly what he should have done. Too bad he wasn't a good enough shot to end the gunfight before he was injured.
 

AbNo

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,805
Location
Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
imported post

Well, was Brown supposed to try and out-draw some punk-arse gangsta-wannabe that was already pointing a gun at him? Was he supposed to wait for that first?

You'll notice they cut out the thug walking FROM his car. Who's to say Brown didn't see this "jenius" in his mirror, before the gun was hidden?

Seriously, are you telling me Rivers (the guy in the green shirt) was was justified walking past Brown, GETTING A GUN FROM HIS CAR, and walking BACK to Brown?

Because if you are, I want to see you justify that.
 

Demarest

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2006
Messages
245
Location
Toledo, Ohio, USA
imported post

uncoolperson wrote:
i'd still like to see the rest of the video... looks like the defender became more of an aggressor pretty quickly.
Running for cover and then taking down an ARMED attacker. The video doesn't show for example if the REAL aggressor had gone off frame, turned, and began opening fire. Or continued running while shooting backwards. Or running off, threatening other people...

Point is that it's really easy for us to judge from our armchair when all is well. The man in the video was in fear for his life and high on adrenaline. He did what came naturally to him at that moment in time.
 

AbNo

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,805
Location
Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
imported post

uncoolperson wrote:
i'm saying there isn't enough info to make an opinion

*ahem*

Seriously, are you telling me Rivers (the guy in the green shirt) was was justified walking past Brown, GETTING A GUN FROM HIS CAR, and walking BACK to Brown?

All for a bump on the shoulder?
 

bayboy42

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2006
Messages
897
Location
Gloucester Point, Virginia, USA
imported post

ahem*

Seriously, are you telling me Rivers (the guy in the green shirt) was was justified walking past Brown, GETTING A GUN FROM HIS CAR, and walking BACK to Brown?

All for a bump on the shoulder?


No....what he's telling you is that "there isn't enough info to make an opinion".
 

uncoolperson

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
608
Location
Bellingham, ,
imported post

I'm saying shooting someone retreating, might be justified (in my opinion...everyone's differs, like the guy that got bumped for example)... but i can't figure it out from the video.

bravo to the guy for defending himself and surviving... all for that.

but if he did go from defender to aggressor, then the aggressor was defending himself.

and then who do we say is in the wrong at the end?

if me pulling my gun get's you running, and you are no longer a direct threat to me.... well that's good enough by me, i'm not going to unleash a shower of lead on you. however if you fall back and continue, you'd best bet i'm doing the same.

if the original aggressor withdrew, then he withdrew and was no longer a threat.
if he didn't then he didn't.

all i'm saying is i can't tell, so i can't make a good opinion for myself (which i'd like to do)
 

AbNo

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,805
Location
Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
imported post

Well, that's just the thing, Brown (the "Defender") WAS shot in the thigh by this joker, which means Rivers was still an aggressor, even if he was retreating.

You can't tell me that if someone's firing at you while running away, and you've already drawn on him, that you would not return fire.

I don't believe it. ;)
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

AbNo wrote:
You can't tell me that if someone's firing at you while running away, and you've already drawn on him, that you would not return fire.

I would not. If I'm already behind cover, I'm ducking and staying that way with just a peek around the corner to make sure he really is going. I already know how hard it is to hit a moving target, and a miss means that bullet is going somewhere beyond.

"Look and smell, Officer. I didn't fire a shot. All that ruckus was his doing"

Unless he looks like he is moving to cover to continue shooting, or has me in the open with no cover instantly available.
 

uncoolperson

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
608
Location
Bellingham, ,
imported post

AbNo wrote:
Well, that's just the thing, Brown (the "Defender") WAS shot in the thigh by this joker, which means Rivers was still an aggressor, even if he was retreating.

You can't tell me that if someone's firing at you while running away, and you've already drawn on him, that you would not return fire.

I don't believe it. ;)
did rivers retreat or continue being a threat?

shooting while retreating and simply retreating are different things... i can't tell from the video which it was.

to me it looks like a trout that went after a fly not quite matched to the hatch, looks at it... maybe starts a lunge, but backs down cause it didn't seem like a good idea (dang trout)
 
Top