New Mod

[cato]

EXTRA! EXTRA! New record: Three threads locked in one day!

Longwatch has been appointed to reign in this willy independent marauding band of OCers, several LEOsand oneHankT.

Shall the title of this new chapter in OCDO be "There is a new Sheriff in Town" and ordered liberty prevail,or will "Sic Simper Tyrannis" be the battle cry once again?

[FogRider]

Semper fidelis tyrannosaurus!

[Tomahawk]

Does he get to wear a moderator badge?

[longwatch]

Im just trying to be tough but fair. Last thing I want to do is to turn this forum into THR, but I'll do what I gotta do. Sometimes when we get into flamewars and it does us no good, I will lock that thread. If we have 3 topics on the same subject I will merge them. If we have off topic or non geographically oriented topics I will move them to their proper area. BTW we have a new General section for those other subjects. Frankly I'd like to have this forum return to the high level of self moderation we had for a while. We didn't always agree but we respected each other because we knew one another and operated under the premise that an armed society is a polite society.

[dng]

Nothing wrong with some moderation. There have been some threads in the past few months that should have been locked, but never were. As long as it doesn't become the Socialist State of Open Carry, then I am all for it. (BTW, I don't see longwatch being that kind of mod.)

[HankT]

longwatch wrote:

Im just trying to be tough but fair. Last thing I want to do is to turn this forum into THR, but I'll do what I gotta do. Sometimes when we get into flamewars and it does us no good, I will lock that thread. If we have 3 topics on the same subject I will merge them. If we have off topic or non geographically oriented topics I will move them to their proper area. BTW we have a new General section for those other subjects. Frankly I'd like to have this forum return to the high level of self moderation we had for a while. We didn't always agree but we respected each other because we knew one another and operated under the premise that an armed society is a polite society.

Well, THR is known for its heavy-handed "moderation." Sometimes those boys end up crossing over into censorship. That crossing is very easy to do. Ole BobCav fell prey to that temptation on a number of occasions. Ironic, too, since he railed against the THR censorship in threads he had an interest in. Then he would, when he got really excited, just delete bunches of posts/threads without comment or rationale.

I have seen many verbal and personal attacks here in the last 4 months or so. All allowed by BobCav. He was too busy with his business or something, so can't really expect more from him.

Good luck in the new gig, longwatch. Regarding merging threads, though, I noticed that of the 3 threads on the Oct. 20 MMM lie-in that you locked twoof them instead of actually merging the posts. Was that the wayyou really wanted to handle those?


The Heinlein quote is perhaps apt for this discussion...and so is Lord Acton:

Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I have found that newbie forum moderators often to succumb to the allure of the delete post/thread button and the power to create new instant rules. Human nature....

[Doug Huffman]

Don't forget, also by Baron Lord Dalberg-Acton

*"Great men are almost always bad men."
* “Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
* “There is not a soul who does not have to beg alms of another, either a smile, a handshake, or a fond eye.”
* “The one pervading evil of democracy is the tyranny of the majority, or rather of that party, not always the majority, that succeeds, by force or fraud, in carrying elections.”
* “Be not content with the best book; seek sidelights from the others; have no favorites.”
* “[History is] not a burden on the memory but an illumination of the soul.”
* “And remember, where you have a concentration of power in a few hands, all too frequently men with the mentality of gangsters get control. History has proven that. All power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
* "The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks."

Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. NRA/GOP *******

[Tomahawk]

"Weren't nobody in history had a statue of himself made that wasn't some kind of sumbitch or another." ~ Captain Mal of Firefly, writen by Joss Whedon

[CA_Libertarian]

Ah, so that's what happened to our nice little debate about limits on 2nd Amendment rights...

Sad, that was a good discussion too, and now it's gone.

Question: how is a 2A debate considered OT on these forums?

Stop the censorship!

[HankT]

CA_Libertarian wrote:

Ah, so that's what happened to our nice little debate about limits on 2nd Amendment rights...

Sad, that was a good discussion too, and now it's gone.

Question: how is a 2A debate considered OT on these forums?

Stop the censorship!

I once asked BobCav why he deleted someone's postt about something or other. He said: "Rule 5."

Rule 5, btw, reads: "5) We reserve the right to remove posting for any reason, at our sole discretion."


Bob never bothered to answer the question. He went right for the authority.

Quite similarly to how the Norfolk/Alexandria/Manassas cops do...



The thread you referred to was about 2A. Some interesting ideas (and somedumb ones) were discussed. It wasa conversation......Why was it deleted? Whoknows. Just Rule 5, I guess.

BTW, I have a copy of page 2 of that thread. I happened to have it on my screen when the thread was deleted about 1 minute after I posted in it (nothing provocative, just some concepts from John Stuart Mill's essay, "Liberty" that I thought pertinent).

If you or anyone else wants a copy of it, just PM me.

[Citizen]

longwatch wrote:

Im just trying to be tough but fair. Last thing I want to do is to turn this forum into THR, but I'll do what I gotta do. Sometimes when we get into flamewars and it does us no good, I will lock that thread. If we have 3 topics on the same subject I will merge them. If we have off topic or non geographically oriented topics I will move them to their proper area. BTW we have a new General section for those other subjects. Frankly I'd like to have this forum return to the high level of self moderation we had for a while. We didn't always agree but we respected each other because we knew one another and operated under the premise that an armed society is a polite society.

I don't know.

I can't tell if he's a Moderator or what. From his avatar it looks like he might be a food critic with serious issues. Maybe got canned by Uniroyal or Michelin or whoever. Maybe hewrote an undeservedly negative review on thechinese Tiger Paw soup or something.



Actually, we've needed a Moderator for a while. I'm glad Longwatch stepped forward.

[cato]

Citizen wrote:

Actually, we've needed a Moderator for a while. I'm glad Longwatch stepped forward.

Me too! But who moderates the Moderator? We do (rule # 5 exempted of course).

But I think he should have to wear some kind of authoritative outfit when moderating. Maybe a special moderator avitar so we know its the "means business" Longwatch and not the "happy go lucky" Longwatch we're used to when he's lay'n downda law:

[longwatch]

I am what I am, I am certainly open to critique, criticism, and helpful suggestions. I can't go too crazy because I have to face many of you in real life so there is one aspect of moderation on me. I will do what I think needs to be done though.

[CA_Libertarian]

HankT wrote:

CA_Libertarian wrote:

Ah, so that's what happened to our nice little debate about limits on 2nd Amendment rights...

Sad, that was a good discussion too, and now it's gone.

Question: how is a 2A debate considered OT on these forums?

Stop the censorship!

I once asked BobCav why he deleted someone's postt about something or other. He said: "Rule 5."

Rule 5, btw, reads: "5) We reserve the right to remove posting for any reason, at our sole discretion."

Well, here's what I think of 'rule #5'...

This forum is someone's private property, and like any other property, the owner has the right to have it moderated in whatever way they want. However, if rule #5 is going to be thrown around like that, then why even have rules 1-4?

The solution is simple; if things keep going down this path, I'll simply stop wasting my time on these boards. Maybe we'll have to create a new place where we don't have to worry about the moderators power tripping.

**waits for this thread to disappear (see rule #5)**

[longwatch]

Sheesh. If anyone feels overly oppressed by OCDO let me know.

[Tomahawk]

longwatch wrote:

I am what I am, I am certainly open to critique, criticism, and helpful suggestions. I can't go too crazy because I have to face many of you in real life so there is one aspect of moderation on me. I will do what I think needs to be done though.

You can do what you want to HankT, though, since he never shows his face amongst us.

[HankT]

CA_Libertarian wrote:

HankT wrote:

CA_Libertarian wrote:

Ah, so that's what happened to our nice little debate about limits on 2nd Amendment rights...

Sad, that was a good discussion too, and now it's gone.

Question: how is a 2A debate considered OT on these forums?

Stop the censorship!

I once asked BobCav why he deleted someone's postt about something or other. He said: "Rule 5."

Rule 5, btw, reads: "5) We reserve the right to remove posting for any reason, at our sole discretion."

Well, here's what I think of 'rule #5'...

This forum is someone's private property, and like any other property, the owner has the right to have it moderated in whatever way they want. However, if rule #5 is going to be thrown around like that, then why even have rules 1-4?

The solution is simple; if things keep going down this path, I'll simply stop wasting my time on these boards. Maybe we'll have to create a new place where we don't have to worry about the moderators power tripping.

**waits for this thread to disappear (see rule #5)**

Yes, it is a private property context. There is no 'freedom of speech' or 1A concerns here. That's the way forums work. He who owns the site gets to dictate the parameters of behavior and speech.

Although Rule 5 is pretty stark and impersonal if just read literally, it's pretty standard language. And it doesn't necessarily mean that the owner is going to be a dictatorial tyrant about what he wants in the way of speech on his site.

Don't forget, and this is probably a new concept for some ideologues here, a good discussion forum has, well, good discussion. Different points of view generate counterpoints to the received view. Arguments and debates about important issues spring up. Positions, advocate or otherwise, get developed, refined and strenthened through a free discourse of ideas.

Most people here are newbies to the Net. They don't really understand that that is exactly what the promise of the Net was--free discourse of ideas.

It's about learning.

I think now is a time for me to insert a pitch for the founders of this site: John and Mike. I think they realize that some differening points of view are, on the whole, beneficial to the discussion of human or gun rights issues--or any halfway relevent side issues. So they've been pretty laid back about how they handle the censorship levers at this forum. And I thank them for that. Their attitudes are quite generative of a viable advocate discussion forum site, I think. They know that.

BobCav, on the other hand has been a disaster. He personally deleted 40-50 of my posts in the early morning hours of June 22nd. When I asked him whether he had done the deleting and why, he did not reply. However, he later publicly posted that he was going to personally delete every post I made.

Bob is an excitable guy. He claims to be passionate and he is. But he likes to get his way.And healso succumbed to his censorious impulses--simply because he didn't agree with the content of many of my posts.

Bob is a Rule 5 kind of guy. But he never was able to back it up with any substantive reason for removing those 40-50 posts. Ironically, Bob railed against the censorship he saw on the High Road gun site and he left in a huff-after slamming the moderators over there in his final post.

So, CA_Libertarian, I don't think this thread will disappear. The posts contained herein may not be PC but John and Mike have shown they are not inclined to be heavy-handed censors. Certainly nothing like Bob has been. I wish Bob well in his new business thang. Maybe it'll be good for him and he'll make lots of $$$$$.

I tend to doubt that longwatch will delete any part of this thread. There simply isn't any reason to do so.

Now, BobCav.....:quirky

[longwatch]

For some reason this clip comes to mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqM_tPumTZI

[BobCav]

Andy, glad to have your help.

To the other comments, wow.... just wow.

[AbNo]

longwatch wrote:

For some reason this clip comes to mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqM_tPumTZI

That Gunny seems to have a slight problem being able to take off his cover. :P

[WhiteFeather]

My personal beliefs are that of support for the mods. They have undertaken a risk in becoming an authority on an otherwise free market of ideas. Their goals should be to police up posts that cross the fine line of sanity and gross insult of persons. How does one do this when they risk "sensorship" and "violation of rights"PM'sbeing lashed at them by the keyboards of thousands of parishioners of the first church of the 1A. I have asked before how people draw the line in civil discussion and thread quagmire. These people are forced to make that decision. Some do it well others not so.

I do have a few requests on the matter.

1. If I cross a line at least make me aware of it.

2. Warnings before deletion make for much appriciation on the OP's part.

3. Punish those who commit said crime not everyone on the thread.

[Grapeshot]

longwatch wrote:

I am what I am, I am certainly open to critique, criticism, and helpful suggestions. I can't go too crazy because I have to face many of you in real life so there is one aspect of moderation on me. I will do what I think needs to be done though.

Ok - a simple thanks for an under appreciated service!
Yata hey