Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 50

Thread: An Idea...

  1. #1
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    I read a brief article in the local section of The Olympian today. It was essentially a press release from some local kook organization whining about how Israel uses Caterpillar tractors to destroy Palestinian homes, blah blah blah. They were trying to get attention for their protest today at 4:30 So they are protesting Cat tractors and whining about how Rachel Corey got ran over when she stood in front of one, etc... Can't find a link online right now though...

    So I thought, well if the wackjobs can use press releases, why don't we? When we settle on a place for an OC lunch, dinner or picinic, send a press release to the local newspaper and radio stations, and try and drum up some publicity. Heck tell the local fuzz too, so you can force a comment from them about it being legal behavior, etc...They don't want to get swamped with service calls about a bunch of people packing and eating potato salad after all...

    Steve

  2. #2
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    Sounds like a good idea to me.

    Maybe get an editor interested in dispatching a writer to cover the OC lunch/picnic/whatever. It really would be an interesting story for the general public.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Silverdale, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,532

    Post imported post

    I don’t want to be a kook. I prefer an approach of quiet dignity. What I’m doing is normal, and so I act normal.

  4. #4
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    Mainsail wrote:
    I don’t want to be a kook. I prefer an approach of quiet dignity. What I’m doing is normal, and so I act normal.
    I don't think sv_lib was suggesting being a kook--just sending out a press release or some other notice to achieve some beneficial coverage or acknowledgment.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Everett, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,339

    Post imported post

    I think what mainsail is saying is that there are people who will read the articel and think we are kooks for open carrying.

    Remember what is normal to one is kooky to another.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  6. #6
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Silverdale, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,532

    Post imported post

    HankT wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    I don’t want to be a kook. I prefer an approach of quiet dignity. What I’m doing is normal, and so I act normal.
    I don't think sv_lib was suggesting being a kook--just sending out a press release or some other notice to achieve some beneficial coverage or acknowledgment.
    I still prefer to maintain some decorum. So far, everyone I’ve encountered has acted as though my pistol was no big deal. Why should I act as though it is? I think it’s best to be low key, like there is nothing out of the ordinary.

    JMO

  7. #7
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,013

    Post imported post

    I think it sums up to this: right now, OC in Washington State is a BIG DEAL....to Joe Blow and his family......by doing this, we would have no control of how that article was written, and we all know that the news loves to make the gun community in general sound like a bunch of crazed wackos.....this would just reinforce the notions in everyone's heads right now that we are just "crazy nutjobs, shoving their gun rights in our face every time we go out in public; we should do something about this".

    I prefer to control my interactions with those that would encounter OC while I'm around, because I can have an intelligent conversation with those who would listen and hopefully succeed in showing that those of us who OC are nothing to fear or be nervous about; we are responsible citizens who simply choose to rely on only ourselves for protection and self defense, because there just isn't a police officer on every street corner. With the spin that would exist in such a news article, I think it would damage our cause, not support it.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Tacoma, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,327

    Post imported post

    I'm with compmanio365--heck, in too many cases just the fact that you own a gun* needs to be finessed by letting people get to know you and find out you're a completely reasonable person before they learn you're a gun owner.

    I've been in this situation more than once, and I don't even live in "liberal Seattle"!


    -------------------------------------------------------------

    *let alone many guns that would necessitate an entire rack. :P


    [edited to fix the inevitable typos]


  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Union, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,256

    Post imported post

    compmanio365 wrote:
    I think it sums up to this: right now, OC in Washington State is a BIG DEAL....to Joe Blow and his family......by doing this, we would have no control of how that article was written, and we all know that the news loves to make the gun community in general sound like a bunch of crazed wackos.....this would just reinforce the notions in everyone's heads right now that we are just "crazy nutjobs, shoving their gun rights in our face every time we go out in public; we should do something about this".

    I prefer to control my interactions with those that would encounter OC while I'm around, because I can have an intelligent conversation with those who would listen and hopefully succeed in showing that those of us who OC are nothing to fear or be nervous about; we are responsible citizens who simply choose to rely on only ourselves for protection and self defense, because there just isn't a police officer on every street corner. With the spin that would exist in such a news article, I think it would damage our cause, not support it.
    Two things, First I think you under rate the average citizen and how he feels about guns. The press does not and hasn't in the last 50 years represented the average citizen's views. Second, you sound scared to have an opinion and let people know what it is. Your attitude plays into the anti's hands.

  10. #10
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,013

    Post imported post

    No, if you actually knew anything about me, you'd know I am quite an opinionated person, and IN PERSON, where I can control my words to make sure they are not twisted around to benefit the views of a liberal pro-gun-control media, I am perfectly capable and willing to share those views. But once you give those words to the news media, as we all know, they can twist them around to say whatever they want them to say. So what everyone else gets to see is not what you actually said or meant, and most likely makes you come off as some wacko nutjob. The media is NOT our friend 99.99% of the time. Why would you play their game? By doing so, you become little more than a pawn of the pro-gun-control lobby by letting them twist your words around to be against your cause and not for it. I think you are doing more harm to our cause than I would be by just saying "no comment". Haven't you ever heard "Discretion is the better part of valor"? In that case I would have the discretion not to give the media any more ammo to throw against us.

  11. #11
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    compmanio365 wrote:
    No, if you actually knew anything about me, you'd know I am quite an opinionated person, and IN PERSON, where I can control my words to make sure they are not twisted around to benefit the views of a liberal pro-gun-control media, I am perfectly capable and willing to share those views. But once you give those words to the news media, as we all know, they can twist them around to say whatever they want them to say. So what everyone else gets to see is not what you actually said or meant, and most likely makes you come off as some wacko nutjob. The media is NOT our friend 99.99% of the time. Why would you play their game? By doing so, you become little more than a pawn of the pro-gun-control lobby by letting them twist your words around to be against your cause and not for it. I think you are doing more harm to our cause than I would be by just saying "no comment". Haven't you ever heard "Discretion is the better part of valor"? In that case I would have the discretion not to give the media any more ammo to throw against us.
    Ahhh, the myth of the liberal media. I hate to break it to you, but not ALL media is liberal. Of course I will admit to a certain bias here, The Olympian keeps me gainfully employed. About a month ago they published a letter of mine I wrote after some woman in Lacey, when interviewed about the Cabelas store coming in freaked out that Cabelas would be selling guns... http://www.theolympian.com/opinion/story/223293.html Read the comments section as well to see the reaction of readers to my letter.

    Any reputable newspaper will ensure any news story it's staffers write will be as unbiased as possible. The opinion pages tend to reflect the readership (i.e., market share, the people who pay it's bills) I have not ever seen an official anti gun line from The Olympian.

    Nor was I suggesting trying to get a story written, but rather a press release published. Again, the kooks do it, which includes their viewpoint, why not do the same thing for a decent cause? And why would you be afraid of a news story? Do you have something to hide, or just not able to articulate your case well enough to a reporter who probably has no interest one way or another in your story except doing their job and getting a paycheck?

    I have seen no media bias in Oly towards gun control. I have seen a couple of stupid syndicated articles, especially after Virginia Tech, but as you can see I got my pro gun view across, and most online comments agreed.

    At any rate, as I said, not all media is evil. There has been a lot of negative press, but I wonder, how much effort is given to counteract it? There needs to be outreach on our end as well. At the very least, get the stones to write a letter to the editor of your local rag.


    Steve

  12. #12
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    Mainsail wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    Mainsail wrote:
    I don’t want to be a kook. I prefer an approach of quiet dignity. What I’m doing is normal, and so I act normal.
    I don't think sv_lib was suggesting being a kook--just sending out a press release or some other notice to achieve some beneficial coverage or acknowledgment.
    I still prefer to maintain some decorum. So far, everyone I’ve encountered has acted as though my pistol was no big deal. Why should I act as though it is? I think it’s best to be low key, like there is nothing out of the ordinary.

    JMO
    I think you're way off the mark on this one. Look what some OC folks did in Utah:

    Utah Deseret Morning News covers OCDO meetup big time!

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum52/5506.html



    You can't buy the advertising that it would take to have the OC postion toget out this favorably.

    Remember, Mainsail: New times, new ideas!

  13. #13
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,013

    Post imported post

    sv_libertarian wrote:
    compmanio365 wrote:
    No, if you actually knew anything about me, you'd know I am quite an opinionated person, and IN PERSON, where I can control my words to make sure they are not twisted around to benefit the views of a liberal pro-gun-control media, I am perfectly capable and willing to share those views. But once you give those words to the news media, as we all know, they can twist them around to say whatever they want them to say. So what everyone else gets to see is not what you actually said or meant, and most likely makes you come off as some wacko nutjob. The media is NOT our friend 99.99% of the time. Why would you play their game? By doing so, you become little more than a pawn of the pro-gun-control lobby by letting them twist your words around to be against your cause and not for it. I think you are doing more harm to our cause than I would be by just saying "no comment". Haven't you ever heard "Discretion is the better part of valor"? In that case I would have the discretion not to give the media any more ammo to throw against us.
    Ahhh, the myth of the liberal media. I hate to break it to you, but not ALL media is liberal. Of course I will admit to a certain bias here, The Olympian keeps me gainfully employed. About a month ago they published a letter of mine I wrote after some woman in Lacey, when interviewed about the Cabelas store coming in freaked out that Cabelas would be selling guns... http://www.theolympian.com/opinion/story/223293.html Read the comments section as well to see the reaction of readers to my letter.

    Any reputable newspaper will ensure any news story it's staffers write will be as unbiased as possible. The opinion pages tend to reflect the readership (i.e., market share, the people who pay it's bills) I have not ever seen an official anti gun line from The Olympian.

    Nor was I suggesting trying to get a story written, but rather a press release published. Again, the kooks do it, which includes their viewpoint, why not do the same thing for a decent cause? And why would you be afraid of a news story? Do you have something to hide, or just not able to articulate your case well enough to a reporter who probably has no interest one way or another in your story except doing their job and getting a paycheck?

    I have seen no media bias in Oly towards gun control. I have seen a couple of stupid syndicated articles, especially after Virginia Tech, but as you can see I got my pro gun view across, and most online comments agreed.

    At any rate, as I said, not all media is evil. There has been a lot of negative press, but I wonder, how much effort is given to counteract it? There needs to be outreach on our end as well. At the very least, get the stones to write a letter to the editor of your local rag.


    Steve
    Well that's great, for that ONE paper......I know that The News Tribune or the Seattle PI or Times are definitely NOT pro-gun media, neither is most, if not all of the news TV stations around here. All you have to do is listen to the news to hear their anti-gun slant to every news story that pops up.....I have rarely heard anything positive about gun ownership in any newspaper, news show, anything related to local media. Sorry, but that's just the way I see it......may be different elsewhere in the state, and in the country, but not where I live......

  14. #14
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    compmanio365 wrote:
    Well that's great, for that ONE paper......I know that The News Tribune or the Seattle PI or Times are definitely NOT pro-gun media, neither is most, if not all of the news TV stations around here. All you have to do is listen to the news to hear their anti-gun slant to every news story that pops up.....I have rarely heard anything positive about gun ownership in any newspaper, news show, anything related to local media. Sorry, but that's just the way I see it......may be different elsewhere in the state, and in the country, but not where I live......
    I should apologize for being rather harsh before, I get a bit touchy on the matter sometimes... :P

    I should also insert the disclaimer that I do not speak for TheOlympian on any matter execpt current subscription prices, practices and specials.

    Apologies and legal CMA aside...

    I have found through my experience that The O is fairly unbiased in their own writings and opinions regarding guns. In fact it really hasn't come up in the 7 months or so I have been reading it, and I believe that in this town anyone can get a fair shake from the paper either on the opinion page or in news reporting.

    Media is market driven, if they have an decidely anti gun stance it is because it sells them papers or gets them viewership. Of course I never accused The News Tribune of being a reputable newspaper

    Like I say, at the very least a well written letter to the editor, or a proposal for a guest editorial is a good start. Write to a reporter who prepares a biased article and call them on it. Write to the publisher or editor about it too. A good media outlet will read or listen to your complaints.

    Remember, bad news, controversy and contention sells. I hate to admit it, but I have made some rather good money off of local and national tradgedies. VA Tech was probably worth the used P89 I bought. When Bad Things happen it is easier for me to sell subscriptions... oh well.



  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    3

    Post imported post

    It seems thatliving in a state that "allows" open carry is a good thing.... However, bringing it to he attention of people who are inheirently nervous around guns could, and does,cause issues, and could eventually cause our laws to be changed so that we can't openly carry anymore.

    Having dinners in public places or other events of this type where we proudly display our right to posess and bear arms, is supposedly to generate awareness. But does it generate support?

    If being allowed to carry your sidearm with you is important,consider taking advantage of our state's shall issue policy, and get a concealed permit.

    You'll be able to carry without letting everyone around you know about it... a definite advantage in all kinds of situations, especially the life and death ones.

  16. #16
    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pierce County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    2,013

    Post imported post

    DanOSteel wrote:
    It seems thatliving in a state that "allows" open carry is a good thing.... However, bringing it to he attention of people who are inheirently nervous around guns could, and does,cause issues, and could eventually cause our laws to be changed so that we can't openly carry anymore.

    Having dinners in public places or other events of this type where we proudly display our right to posess and bear arms, is supposedly to generate awareness. But does it generate support?

    If being allowed to carry your sidearm with you is important,consider taking advantage of our state's shall issue policy, and get a concealed permit.

    You'll be able to carry without letting everyone around you know about it... a definite advantage in all kinds of situations, especially the life and death ones.
    Dude......did you even LOOK at the title of the site before you posted here or what?

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Everett, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,339

    Post imported post

    DanOSteel wrote:
    .....a definite advantage in all kinds of situations, especially the life and death ones.
    Care to elaborate?
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  18. #18
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    compmanio365 wrote:
    Dude......did you even LOOK at the title of the site before you posted here or what?
    I doubt it.The reply doesn't seem to fit the thread either. Kook alert! Kook alert!:what:

    Hmm a profile devoid of any info either. A throw away user name? Someone didn't like what I said about the TNT?

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Monroe, Washington, USA
    Posts
    356

    Post imported post

    I keep hearing about how anti-gun the Seattle TV stations are. But I haven't noticed that. I watch a lot of TV so how have I missed it? Except for that idiot Schramon KOMO4 I haven't seen any anti-gun bias on local TV. I usually watch KING 5and from what I've seen they seem to be slightly pro-gun. I only watch KIRO 7 occasionally so I don't know where they stand but I haven't seen anything anti there either. It's because of Shame er-um-I-mean Schram that I stopped watching the news on 4.

  20. #20
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    BluesBear wrote:
    I keep hearing about how anti-gun the Seattle TV stations are. But I haven't noticed that. I watch a lot of TV so how have I missed it? Except for that idiot Schramon KOMO4 I haven't seen any anti-gun bias on local TV. I usually watch KING 5and from what I've seen they seem to be slightly pro-gun. I only watch KIRO 7 occasionally so I don't know where they stand but I haven't seen anything anti there either. It's because of Shame er-um-I-mean Schram that I stopped watching the news on 4.
    A lot of people like to believe in the "liberal media" and the "anti gun media"

    Yes, there is plenty of media that is decidedly anti gun. There is also plenty that is pro gun or takes a neutral stance. Unfortunatley it is easier to complain and believe in common wisdom than to look at every major media outlet that a person is exposed to or uses and determine their stance on a particular subject.

    Media is market driven.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    3

    Post imported post

    (please bear with my somewhat disturbed sense of humor)

    A right not exercised is a right that's lost.... hmmmm

    let's consider:

    a Kooky family has grown an incredible crop but can't possibly eat all of it before it goes bad. what do they do? find a way to preserve it.

    a Kooky guy earns more money than he needs to pay his bills.... what does he do with the excess? saves it for the future.

    someone Kooky spends all their life dedicating themselves to learning a martial art and becomes a black belt. Does he wear his belt everywhere to proudly display his title? nope, he keeps it to himself.

    the point is that we have many rights as a result of many Kooky peoples' sacrifices.

    as long as we resepct and preserve those rights, we will have them.

    Flaunting our right to openly carry a firearm is a mixed bag o' 'Kookies'.

    sure it can serve to bring awareness to others regarding their right to do the same, (and an armed America is a good America) however it can also serve to bring awareness to those who don't want us to have that right because they are afraid.

    If these Kooky individuals realize that it is legal for every Kooky Joe to be carrying a sidearm, they're very likely to find a way to change the law.

    without a concealed permit you can't have a loaded firearm in your vehicle.
    (except under certain circumstances), so what good is it if everywhere you go,
    you have to unload, lock up and put away your firearm, and then have to get it
    back out and reload when you reach your destination?

    With a CWP, not only can you be armed at all times (with a few exceptions),
    but you also will not have tipped your hand in the event that you find yourself in a Kooky situation that would cause you to need your weapon.

    A definite tactical advantage.

    A Kooky mugger wants your wallet, you reach behind as though you are going to comply... instead of getting your wallet, he gets your .45 staring him inhisKooky face.

    Same Kooky mugger sees that you're packing... if you aren't fully aware of your surroundings and don't see him coming up behind you, what will you do if he disarms you, or worse, just puts his own firearm against the back of your head?

    In a bank or any other establishment during a hold-up... you're openly carrying, and displaying your rights... you've also just singled yourself out of the crowd, and put on a big Kooky target.

    Want to preserve your right to openly carry, and keep it firmly established in our laws?

    Don't flaunt it, don't waste it... save it for a time when it might be important.

    we live in a shall issue state... if you apply, you shall be given a CWP.

    (unless you have something Kooky on your record that would disqualify you, which in most cases would also make it illegal for you to own or posess a firearm in the first place)

    Do yourself a favor... spend the $60, get printed, wait about 6 weeks for your little Kooky piece of paper to come in the mail. You'll be glad you did.




  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Blaine, WA, ,
    Posts
    1,315

    Post imported post

    Try watching when something like Virginia Tech happens. Or better yet, try watching when something like Pearl, Mississippi happens. You won't hear one word about the fellow with the gun that stopped the shooter. Bias can be subtle. They don't need to falsify shooting demonstrations like CNN and the Broward County sheriff in order to be biased. Leaving out crucial info can accomplish the same thing.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    3

    Post imported post

    agreed... in those states that don't allow open carry, the only option is a CWP.

    if just 1 of the VT students or faculty had been packing, the situation could have been averted much sooner.

    unfortunately, in many states, like Oregon, you have to jump through a lot of hoops and have a good reason (in the eyes if the issuing authority) to be allowed to carry... here in WA, all you have to do is apply, and wait.

  24. #24
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    DanOSteel wrote:

    Do yourself a favor... spend the $60, get printed, wait about 6 weeks for your little Kooky piece of paper to come in the mail. You'll be glad you did.


    Actually state law says WITHIN 30 days. Most agencies read that as "wait 30 days". Besides I should not have to wait 30 days or more to enjoy my rights. Would you like to wait 30 days before you could be allowed to start viewing cable tv? Of course not. Why wait 30 days before you can exercise any other right? Methinks Dano is a cop who is uncomfortable with the average citizen openly displaying arms, and would prefer that only "authorized" people openly display arms.


    You see, to carry a concealed pistol requires a permit. Concealed carry is hardly a "normal" way of carrying, but rather the result of society realizing that too many people insist on that funny thing of exercising their right to bear arms. So what do you do? You regulate it, tax it, and make a big deal out of it while pretending not to make a big deal about it.

    Throughout history OPEN CARRY has been considered the norm, while CONCEALED CARRY was a sneaky thing that you did only if you had a sneaky reason to hide your pistol, thus the government licensing concealed carry which as far as I am concerned is BS too. "Vermont style" http://www.gunowners.org/vtcarry.htmcarry should be the norm everywhere. That is to say, no permit to conceal, no permit to open carry. You just carry the pistol however you please. Bad guys do it, why restrict the honest citizen who by definition is not a criminal?

    Many states happily deal with OC on a daily basis. Alaska, Arizona, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, New Mexico, South Dakota, Kentucky, Virginia, and Vermont. That's 20% of all states that have common sense OC laws that are embraced by their populace.

    Never forget that open carry has never gone away in this country. Why are you tripping so badly over OC? If I have a gun and hide it, or have a gun and it is visible what is the difference? Am I more likely to commit a crime because you can see my gun? Why hide my light under a basket?

    How many people OCing do you know of who have been snuck up on and disarmed by a would be robber? Robber seek soft targets as you very well know, and are more likely to go somewhere else rather than grapple with an armed citizen.

    My main weapon is in plain view. When I get a belly gun that will be my sneaky little hideaway.

    If I am in a bank being robbed, OCing or CCing, I believe that if I felt justified in drawing my weapon in defense I would become a target.

    The more I re-read this post, the more I am convinced dano is a cop. Only a cop or someone who is programmed to believe certain things would talk this way.

    So come clean DanOSteel, are you 'da man? You can have my full name; Steve Coffman, Olympia WA. What is yours? I have already made my profession clear. What do you do?

    Steve

    BTW, your farmer analogy makes no sense.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Union, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,256

    Post imported post

    DanOSteel wrote:
    agreed... in those states that don't allow open carry, the only option is a CWP.

    if just 1 of the VT students or faculty had been packing, the situation could have been averted much sooner.

    unfortunately, in many states, like Oregon, you have to jump through a lot of hoops and have a good reason (in the eyes if the issuing authority) to be allowed to carry... here in WA, all you have to do is apply, and wait.
    Actually Oregon is also a "shall issue state just like Washington.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •