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Thread: Empty holster protest

  1. #1
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    http://www.concealedcampus.org/
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    Yup. I'm on the University of Washington campus right now with my (sadly empty) Blackhawk Serpa. I haven't seen anyone else doing it yet, and really it doesn't seem like anybody has taken any notice (with the single exception of one of those Lyndon LaRouche nutjobs, who said as I walked past: "you look like a particularly feisty patriot." I took it as a compliment despite the source ).

    So, pretty quiet, all in all. Maybe I should've been wearing a pink holster. :P

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    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/5031.html
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/5280.html



    Thanks for the reminder, though. I forgot at class last night, need to do it tonight...

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    I think it'd be interesting if folks posted some pictures -- if I can get one of my students to snap one or two, I'll see if I can't put one up.

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    There was a fellow at my bus stop today, on the way to the UW, carrying an empty Serpa. That's one more for you, Stealth Potato!

    -Rattler

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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    Thereis a group doing this on the Ohio State campus. Kudos to these people for their efforts.

    http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Top_New...holsters/1148/

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    I wonder how many "man with a gun" calls there will be at particularly Democrat-oriented campuses, as I'm sure that there's a fair number of kids so indoctrinated into the anti-gun mentality that they assume that a holster is a gun.

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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    I wonder how many "man with a gun" calls there will be at particularly Democrat-oriented campuses, as I'm sure that there's a fair number of kids so indoctrinated into the anti-gun mentality that they assume that a holster is a gun.
    I really doubt it. That's stretching it wayyy too far.

    What's a "fair number," anyway, in your opinion?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I think what hes trying to say is some people would see a holster and assume a gun was it it. Heck I might at a quick glace. What is it called when you see what you expect is there but it isn't because your brain tricks you? I think it might fall under cognitive dissonance but I'm not sure.

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    longwatch wrote:
    I think what hes trying to say is some people would see a holster and assume a gun was it it. Heck I might at a quick glace. What is it called when you see what you expect is there but it isn't because your brain tricks you? I think it might fall under cognitive dissonance but I'm not sure.

    Perceptual completion...in the visual domain....

    I doubt it though. There isn't any support for his assertion. Often, when we want to make some point against someone else, we make it by ascribing some clearly bad or clearly incorrect to that someone else. It's OK to ascribe the bad or incorrect thing to the someone else--unlessthat bad or incorrect thing is not true or just a self-serving guess. Such is the stuff of straw man arguments.

    In any event, anyone worried about that perceptual error could always...




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    American Rattlesnake wrote:
    There was a fellow at my bus stop today, on the way to the UW, carrying an empty Serpa. That's one more for you, Stealth Potato!

    -Rattler
    Well, that couldn't have been me, since I just barely caught my bus today at 1:00PM. :P

    Yesterday evening, though, I was in the Allen Center labs, and a fellow student asked me, "Hey, is that a level 2 Serpa holster?" Turns out he was also a firearms enthusiast, though he hadn't heard of the Concealed Campus protest. He liked the idea though, and he told me he'd wear his Serpa the next day, so maybe you saw him at the bus stop?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I wonder if a more gun shaped holster would be more likely to elicit a reaction. It would make for a good hidden video. Say a GI type flap holster or a cowboy style gunbelt and holster. Would the reaction be noticably different in different areas? Somehow I think the general reaction in Texas would be different than say New Jersey, colleges different than a restaurants, etc.

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    Stealth Potato wrote:
    ...he told me he'd wear his Serpa the next day, so maybe you saw him at the bus stop?
    It's possible. It is also possible (likely?) that there are simply more gun enthusiasts and more people that take self defense seriously at the UW than is commonly understood.

    -Rattler

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    longwatch wrote:
    I think what hes trying to say is some people would see a holster and assume a gun was it it. Heck I might at a quick glace. What is it called when you see what you expect is there but it isn't because your brain tricks you? I think it might fall under cognitive dissonance but I'm not sure.
    Right on target with what I was trying to say. I'd also postulate that it would be easier to make this error for those who have never seen a real gun, and might see a handgun once in a while in a film or TV show, though they might steer away from such "violent" programming. Regardless, I'd say it's fair to assume that a large portion of the anti-gun crowd knows nothing about guns whatsoever, even things that we take for granted in this community, and so they may not know how a holster functions, what it's even called, what relation it has to a gun, etc. They just know that guns=holster. Anyhow, it would also prove interesting to see how a school police unit would respond to a student who is not carrying a weapon...



    *cue the extraneous babbling of the Forum Member Who Shall Not Be Named*

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    There is an interesting story and associated post today that demonstrates what you and I are thinking can happen.
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum43/5527.html
    Check out the reaction to a student wearing a gunbelt but no gun.

    On a moderator note, I have to admonish you a bit for baiting and being insulting. We may not agree with each other here but lets try to respect differing opinions and not be uncivil to the bearer. Put it this way if the person you were thinking of were in the room and armed, would you say that?

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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Anyhow, it would also prove interesting to see how a school police unit would respond to a student who is not carrying a weapon...
    Well, I walked right past several UW police officers today, though to be honest I don't think they even noticed the holster. Heck, I'm beginning to suspect that a lot of my fellow students (of the staring-at-their-shoes-while-listening-to-their-ipods variety) would not have noticed even if I had been openly carrying my full-sized 1911!

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    HankT wrote:
    I doubt it though. There isn't any support for his assertion. Often, when we want to make some point against someone else, we make it by ascribing some clearly bad or clearly incorrect to that someone else. It's OK to ascribe the bad or incorrect thing to the someone else--unlessthat bad or incorrect thing is not true or just a self-serving guess. Such is the stuff of straw man arguments.
    Didn't you commit the same fallacy with your assertion of doubt? Ascribing Imperialism's opinion as false without knowingthe facts? For self-serving purposes, maybe? I love the irony... you're always good for a laugh Hank.

    How about I settle your difference of opinions?

    I used to carry a firearm as a licensed rent-a-cop. One night, after responding to a call, the client called my boss to report I had a gun in her office. (It was a well-known company policy not to carry at her motel.) The gun was actually locked in the trunk of my patrol car, where it had been before I even entered her parking lot. In fact, my holster had been empty for the previous hour during my lunch break at the restuarant next door (due to nutty CA rent-a-cop gun laws that restrict where you can carry while in uniform). Luckily, a review of the security video cleared my good name and saved me from being fired.

    So, there you have it; it has happened, and could happen again.
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    Look out; He's got a banana! He must be looking to suicide by cop. I mean, the tip isn't even orange. It looks like a REAL banana. I was in fear for my life. [/sarcasm]

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    This story was found on the Fox News main web page!

    Students Strap On Empty Holsters to Protest Gun Restrictions on Campus

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304806,00.html

    College students across the country have been strapping empty holsters around their waists this week to protest laws that prohibit concealed weapons on campus, citing concerns over campus shootings.

    "People who would otherwise be able to defend themselves are left defenseless when on campus," said Ethan Bratt, a graduate student wearing an empty holster this week on the campus of Seattle Pacific University.

    Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, a group of college students, parents and citizens who organized after the deadly shootings at Virginia Tech University in April, launched the protest.

    A national debate over gun laws on campus began in the wake of those shootings, in which a deranged student killed 32 people in a classroom building before committing suicide. It was the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history.

    Campuses are prime targets for people intent on harming others because laws prohibit concealed weapons there, Bratt said.

    But others believe college is no place for firearms.

    "You don't like the fact that you can't have a gun on your college campus? Drop out of school," said Peter Hamm, a spokesman for the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.

    When someone pulls out a gun and starts firing in a crowded environment, it's more likely that additional victims will be harmed, Hamm said.

    "Let's be grateful that those holsters are empty," he said.

    Click here to visit the Students for Concealed Carry on Campus Web site.
    Click here to visit the Brady Center's Web site.

    A group of 12 students chose to wear empty holsters to class this week at the University of Idaho as part of the nationwide protest.

    Aled Baker, a junior, said he loses his constitutional right to protect himself and others when he steps on campus.

    "It's null and void when you go on campus," the mechanical engineering student said.
    Baker, a sportsman and hunter, has a license to carry a concealed handgun and hopes the protest will get people talking about the issue.

    University policies nationwide prohibit carrying concealed han
    dguns on campuses.

    "We do not allow weapons on campus for the safety and security of our student body and faculty," said Tracy Schario, spokeswoman for George Washington University in Washington, D.C.

    Justin Turner, a senior in criminology and history at Florida State University, also wants the ability to carry a concealed handgun on campus.

    "I'm hoping that people actually realize that this is something that college students are serious about moving forward and realize that it's not about taking the law into your own hands; it's about taking personal responsibility for yourself," said Turner, chairman of the Florida State chapter of Students for the Second Amendment.

    Congress is considering legislation that would tighten background checks and give states funding to submit information to a national database that would prevent guns from being sold to dangerous buyers. House lawmakers passed the legislation, but it remains in the Senate.

    "It fixes the problem that the states are not submitting the necessary records of people who have been found by a court to be dangerously mentally ill," Hamm said.

    Family members and survivors of the Virginia Tech shootings recently visited members of Congress to urge lawmakers to pass the legislation they believe could help prevent future tragedies.


  20. #20
    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    Duplicate thread. Discussed here: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum4/5507.html

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    Sorry about the duplication. Looked for the topic, didn't find it.

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    No problem. Threads can definately be difficult to find sometimes.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Good info, merged with the original thread.

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    "You don't like the fact that you can't have a gun on your college campus? Drop out of school," said Peter Hamm, a spokesman for the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.
    Wow... what a juvenile way to address the problem. Has the Brady bunch finally given up on arguing about the evils of guns? Then again, it seems strikingly similar to actions by the anti-smoking folk to just ban a practice often enough that people are alienated into submission....

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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    "You don't like the fact that you can't have a gun on your college campus? Drop out of school," said Peter Hamm, a spokesman for the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence.
    Wow... what a juvenile way to address the problem. Has the Brady bunch finally given up on arguing about the evils of guns? Then again, it seems strikingly similar to actions by the anti-smoking folk to just ban a practice often enough that people are alienated into submission....
    I guess that means once colleges start to allow students to carry, the brady bunch won't have a problem with us using the following argument: "You don't like the fact that you can have a gun on your college campus? Drop out of school!!!"

    :celebrate:what:

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