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Thread: could it be that a two year old....

  1. #1
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    Could it be that a two year old has better judgment than some folks at 40 ?

    The other day I meet my family at a local restaurant. My anti-gun sister n law is giving me the same evil look as when I gave my nephew a toy pistol a while back (it ended up disappearing ) . My sister than starts in with the "why are you bringing a gun in here around these children? Someone could bump into you and it could go off and shoot someone ! "

    Hearing that my two year old niece walks over to me and slaps the side of my holster with her little hand,shakes her head as she looks over at my sisterand says, " no mommy".

    It has been a long time since I have laughed thathard.

    Someone is getting a NRA sweatshirt in extra-smallwith theirChristmas present this year.


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    That's hilarious. I constantly see comments like this. "Someone could bump you." "it could misfire" (by which I THINK they mean it could go off on it's own). "What if you trip." All sorts of nonsense from people who don't have the first clue about how a gun works.

    Idiots.

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    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    "Why do you bring your car around all these children? If you bump it, it might start up and run them over."

    Try to imagine what it must be like to live in such a mind. I actually find myself feeling a bit sorry for such folks. The world must be very frightening place for people who feel constantly intimidated by anything that requires personal responsibility.

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    Psalms 8:2: Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger.
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
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    My dear Wife and lifelong friend said to me, just two days ago, as I was putting my firearm on. "I'd be afraid that thing would shoot my butt off"What made is so humorous was; I *Have* explained to her on several occasions that it “just doesn’t go off by itself" I have showed her how even the thumb-break prevents the hammer from falling, and have explained the mechanism of the 1911 to her. Sigh.... but all the damage to her intelligence caused by watching Opra, and Rosie etc... etc...etc… programming is not easily un-done.


    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

    Free Flight

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    Here I go again with just another opportunity to bash LEOs but this is the way I see it:

    The problems come from so-called model citizens setting a bad example for the rest of us when 'they' proclaim themselves to be the only ones professional enough to handle such responsibility (and then go on to act irresponsibly) all gunowners become tarred with the same brush. The difference is that LEOs never seem to suffer any real consequences for theirnegligence because every possible argument is used to diffusethe negative light cast toward the men in uniform, including "it just went off." Fortunately, guns rarely "just go off" due to some civilian brushing up against it because a LEO in uniform is likely to be afforded slightly more personal space while in public. However, LEOs are given substantially more latitude in explaining their actions byutilizingsome form of "it just went off in the line of duty and I was reasonably in fear for my life" argument.

    Most other people involved in any kind of unintentional discharge will be persecuted very publicly even if not held criminally liable.Internal police investigations just seem to fall into a black hole with no individual responsibility hence, some might conclude, it must have been the gun's fault.

    Bad guns. We must remove guns from society. The police, of course, are excluded.





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    Founder's Club Member Skeptic's Avatar
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    It's funny, my 4 year old son knows more about gun safety and what to do than most antis.

    He has a few toy guns, but the last time he played with it, he was pretending to clean it I must be doing something right .



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    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    ne1 wrote:
    Here I go again with just another opportunity to bash LEOs but this is the way I see it:

    The problems come from so-called model citizens setting a bad example for the rest of us when 'they' proclaim themselves to be the only ones professional enough to handle such responsibility (and then go on to act irresponsibly) all gunowners become tarred with the same brush. The difference is that LEOs never seem to suffer any real consequences for theirnegligence because every possible argument is used to diffusethe negative light cast toward the men in uniform, including "it just went off." Fortunately, guns rarely "just go off" due to some civilian brushing up against it because a LEO in uniform is likely to be afforded slightly more personal space while in public. However, LEOs are given substantially more latitude in explaining their actions byutilizingsome form of "it just went off in the line of duty and I was reasonably in fear for my life" argument.

    Most other people involved in any kind of unintentional discharge will be persecuted very publicly even if not held criminally liable.Internal police investigations just seem to fall into a black hole with no individual responsibility hence, some might conclude, it must have been the gun's fault.

    Bad guns. We must remove guns from society. The police, of course, are excluded.



    By no means is it only LEOs who do dumb stuff and claim "it went off"
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
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    I have never caught my firearm trying to get out of it's holster and go wandering about on it's own, trying to find a venue to release it's destructive power on...

    Nor have I ever experienced the sensation that my weapon is using mind control to make me turn into a murderous villain by over-riding my will and causing me to draw it and start shooting at random...

    But I understand from Rosie, Oprah etc via my Anti Wife that “that’s what they do!” lmao

    I once saw a post on another Internet Group from a self professed gunpro say,
    "a Strong side holster is safer than a shoulder holster because it's pointed down..."


    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

    Free Flight

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    ama-gi wrote:
    That's hilarious. I constantly see comments like this. "Someone could bump you." "it could misfire" (by which I THINK they mean it could go off on it's own). "What if you trip." All sorts of nonsense from people who don't have the first clue about how a gun works.

    Idiots.
    Whats kinda funny is that the pilots in my squadron aren't allowed to fly with one in the chamber. (they carry when on combat missions). The thinking behind this is because they are worried that while turning their body side to side while doing what they do for 6 hour flights could inadvertantly pull the hammer back and accidentally pull the trigger somehow. I told them that was rediculous, but they just said it was policy...

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    PackininVB wrote:
    Whats kinda funny is that the pilots in my squadron aren't allowed to fly with one in the chamber. (they carry when on combat missions). The thinking behind this is because they are worried that while turning their body side to side while doing what they do for 6 hour flights could inadvertantly pull the hammer back and accidentally pull the trigger somehow. I told them that was rediculous, but they just said it was policy...
    Not sure if this is true (probably not because a marine told me it).... but he said fighter-pilots carry pistols so they commit suicide if they crash in enemy territory. Then he was on about how they are unable to live without airconditioning and a TV (he talks a lot of smack about the other arm forces :P)



    One time my friend brought his gf to my appartment and I was cleaning a 22 rifle ..... her remark was "those things kill". So I said, "hmm that is odd, mine hasn't killed anyone yet.... maybe I should return it and get one that works". A joke that a lot of gun-owners say.... just couldn't miss the opportunity =).

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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    Skeptic wrote:
    It's funny, my 4 year old son knows more about gun safety and what to do than most antis.

    He has a few toy guns, but the last time he played with it, he was pretending to clean it I must be doing something right .

    That is hilarious! I think we need the NRA's version of America's funniest home videos. I would have loved to seen that! Keep up the good work! Not only will your kid be carrying, he carrying a clean firearm as well!

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Whenever somebody says something like that, I simply say, "How?"

    I invite them to explain in detail how a particular gun will "just go off".

    Most often, they'll just say, "Well, I don't know anything about guns!!!" I just say, "EXACTLY..."
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    dngreer wrote:
    Skeptic wrote:
    It's funny, my 4 year old son knows more about gun safety and what to do than most antis.

    He has a few toy guns, but the last time he played with it, he was pretending to clean it I must be doing something right .

    That is hilarious! I think we need the NRA's version of America's funniest home videos. I would have loved to seen that! Keep up the good work! Not only will your kid be carrying, he carrying a clean firearm as well!
    Just the part where he checked to make sure it wasn't "loaded" first was priceless. He knows the gun won't go off all by itself.


    Next time I really do gotta get that on video

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    PackininVB wrote:
    Whats kinda funny is that the pilots in my squadron aren't allowed to fly with one in the chamber. (they carry when on combat missions). The thinking behind this is because they are worried that while turning their body side to side while doing what they do for 6 hour flights could inadvertantly pull the hammer back and accidentally pull the trigger somehow. I told them that was rediculous, but they just said it was policy...
    PackinVB, I dont know what type aircraft your squadron has but when i was in the Navy during desert storm in an A-6 squadron and OEF when i worked in an F-14 squadron our aircrew carried in case of being shot down. They didnt carry cocked and locked because they would have to eject, which when that happens you would pull a lot of G's so I could understand not having one in the chamber.

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    PackininVB wrote:
    Whats kinda funny is that the pilots in my squadron aren't allowed to fly with one in the chamber. (they carry when on combat missions). The thinking behind this is because they are worried that while turning their body side to side while doing what they do for 6 hour flights could inadvertantly pull the hammer back and accidentally pull the trigger somehow. I told them that was rediculous, but they just said it was policy...
    I suspect it has more to do with not wanting a negligent discharge when they clear the chamber after flying. Besides, it's not as though they'd have to use it while they're in the cockpit, and they'll have plenty of time to chamber a round on the parachute ride down.

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    I fell out of the back of a trailer some time back and landed on guess what...my H&K USP .45 hung openly on my hip - cocked and locked as always.

    A few scratches and nothing more. Modern firearms are designed to suffer all sorts of drops, knocks, and twangs without firing.

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    ne1 wrote:
    Here I go again with just another opportunity to bash LEOs but this is the way I see it:

    The problems come from so-called model citizens setting a bad example for the rest of us when 'they' proclaim themselves to be the only ones professional enough to handle such responsibility (and then go on to act irresponsibly) all gunowners become tarred with the same brush. The difference is that LEOs never seem to suffer any real consequences for theirnegligence because every possible argument is used to diffusethe negative light cast toward the men in uniform, including "it just went off." Fortunately, guns rarely "just go off" due to some civilian brushing up against it because a LEO in uniform is likely to be afforded slightly more personal space while in public. However, LEOs are given substantially more latitude in explaining their actions byutilizingsome form of "it just went off in the line of duty and I was reasonably in fear for my life" argument.

    Most other people involved in any kind of unintentional discharge will be persecuted very publicly even if not held criminally liable.Internal police investigations just seem to fall into a black hole with no individual responsibility hence, some might conclude, it must have been the gun's fault.

    Bad guns. We must remove guns from society. The police, of course, are excluded.
    I can completely understand the frustration of the people and even NE1 when it comes to holding cops responsible.

    Blatant disregard for the safety and life of others should absolutely be prosecuted.

    Here is my way of thinking on the matter. You can feel free to disagree if you like...

    If you are going to have zero tolerance and put cops in jail for something that was accidental or unintentional.... and at the same time..... expect or even require them to place themselves in a position where they will risk prison for doing their job....

    Your going to have cops that arenever going to get out of their car or chase after criminals. They are going to alwaysfear that if they make a mistakeon a spit second decision that turns out to not be not what they expected.. they can do 20 to life.

    Something that comes to mind...

    Your chasing a murder by firearm suspectwho stops on a dark street and faces you. You draw your gun and aim it at him while you order him to put his hands up. He reaches behind his back and quickly draws his hand out in your direction. You cannot see what is in his hand and you fear he is about to shoot you too. You have no time to wait so see if it is a real gun, waiting to hear it go off in the darkness. You quickly decide to shoothim and he dies.You find out he was unarmed and showing you his wallet.

    Zero tolerance = Your going to go to jail now for 20 years for killing an unarmed man.

    You are being paid to stopthe criminals so your expected to go catch him. Had you turned a blind eye.... you would not have shot him and would not be going to jail now.

    Citizens are not being paid to run after criminals. If they do so... they do so at their own risk. Unless their life was in jeopardy and they could not escape they may be held liable for the death of another.

    So we can put cops in jail but I am confident they will STOP doing any task that can cause them to go to jail. They will start their dutyand end their dutyin the station parking lot. They will only go to calls sent to them and then do next to nothing for the people. They will NEVER do anything that can cause them to go to jail even if they make the best decisions.

    To do a job where your split decision can put you in jail even if you could justify your actions.... not good.


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    Deanimator wrote:
    Whenever somebody says something like that, I simply say, "How?"

    I invite them to explain in detail how a particular gun will "just go off".

    Most often, they'll just say, "Well, I don't know anything about guns!!!" I just say, "EXACTLY..."
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=X6bbXgUNOws

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    My 22 year old cousin Monica moved away from Alabama about 2 years ago. Growing up, we were always pretty tight, and we haven't seen each other in quite some time. Well, I pull up to a family get together we have every year two weeks ago, and she comes running up to me (catching me completely off guard) and tackles me!

    I laughed and hugged her back as I fought back tears... not tears of joy, but of pain. I was CCing my XD .45 under my sweater. It jammed into my side like a 90 mph fastball hitting me. Left a nasty bruise... actually, its still there. But guess what? Even with my 180lbs + her 100 lbs totallying 280 lbslanding on my gun, on a hardwood deck... NO ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE!!!

    I read in a thread somewhere on P4L a while back that some father told his son that he could literally throw his cocked and locked 1911 against a wall 10 times and ti wouldn't go off. I wouldn't try it, but it's probably true.

    They just don't make modern autos vulnerable to ADs anymore. It's very difficult to make a gun go off without pulling the trigger. People who don't understand this either need educating, or ignoring.

    Just my .02.

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    Tomahawk wrote:Hadn't seen that, thanks for making my day. Might just try that if I think I can trust the anti not to make a grab for it.

    "sword-gun: mightier than the pen-gun"

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    Skeptic wrote:
    It's funny, my 4 year old son knows more about gun safety and what to do than most antis.

    He has a few toy guns, but the last time he played with it, he was pretending to clean it I must be doing something right .
    Heh! My 4 year old son (ever the vocal one) has been known to tell strangers in Wal Mart: "Guns can be very dangerous. Never point guns at people or pets. Always keep your finger off the trigger until you're ready to shoot the target!" (I tought him an age-appropriate version of "The Rules" when he was only 3, and it seems to have stuck. )

    My boy doesn't have any toy guns. He does have his own Crickett .22, and he treats all guns as if they're "real" guns, and loaded. He'll turn 5 next month; it's time for more range time in the back yard with Aguila Super Colibri, and balloons as targets.
    :celebrate




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    vtme_grad98 wrote:
    PackininVB wrote:
    Whats kinda funny is that the pilots in my squadron aren't allowed to fly with one in the chamber. (they carry when on combat missions). The thinking behind this is because they are worried that while turning their body side to side while doing what they do for 6 hour flights could inadvertantly pull the hammer back and accidentally pull the trigger somehow. I told them that was rediculous, but they just said it was policy...
    I suspect it has more to do with not wanting a negligent discharge when they clear the chamber after flying. Besides, it's not as though they'd have to use it while they're in the cockpit, and they'll have plenty of time to chamber a round on the parachute ride down.
    Im in a squadron of Hornets, Charlies to be exact. When i talked to the pilot who was putting away the guns from a flight he said they dont do it so that they dont inadvertantly set it off. I told him that that would be pretty hard to do and asked what would happen if they ejected over enemy territory and one of their arms was broken? That would make it a little difficult to load a round. I dont remember his answer

    I think that they are overly worried (as they are with most things) about little things that probably wouldnt happen. Even ejecting, if it wont go off by hitting it on accident, then it wont go off while ejecting.

    They have clearing stations in the Ready Rooms. Little things that they can stick the barrel in and clear it, its completely rubber or something so i dont think clearing it is a problem. And what if they were knocked out on the parachute ride down. And carry to commit suicide? Oviously Scott O'Grady didnt pay attention to that rule,and they put to much money into training these guys to have them kill themselves. Killing yourself as an option is only in the movies, or maybe in some no-name agency that ive never worke for and would not know their policies.

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    If you can drag an anti to the range ...

    While quite a few won't even entertain the idea, if you can manage to get an anti to a GOOD, family type shooting range the battle is almost won.

    In my experience, once they actually handle and fire a firearm ... well, it's like they are born again.

    Part of it is the safety instructions a guest at a good range has to go through before being allowed on the line. (The NRA Range is a good example, plus they get a 'Range Card' as a souvinier and reminder.)

    Next comes a semi-understanding of the mechanics involved. I have an old SW that I demo by putting a round in the chamber and whacking the back of the hammer spur with a small hammer. I've been through a few bent/broken hammer blocks but the demo is worth it. (See, it won't go off when you drop it.)

    Worth it's weight in gunpowder, however, is the look on their face when they look downrange and see that actiually hit the 7yd. target.

    HINTS: Start them off with a small caliber, non-threatening single or double action (uses as single action) revolver. Try to have one with a 6" or so barrell to increase their chances of success.

    When it's time to move up to a semi-auto, give them a full-size, 9mm 1911.

    Choose 9mm because it's managable for a newbie, and a full-sized 1911 because of the mass and all of the safeties involved. If the anti is a woman or of smaller stature you should opt for a semi-compact 1911.

    You want them to understand, these things don't just 'go off.'

    Use plain paper targets with no markings at all. You want them to feel good about hitting a target, not bad for missing a bullseye. (Also the sillouette targets are just too much for an already overloaded brain.)

    If they have any degree of success the next target should be a 'Fun One" like a Poker Game rather than aim competitive. (Let them win a few)

    Even if we don't get a 'convert' at least we have planted a seed and done a bit of education.

    When you DO, get a convert, however, watch out. It's the first taste of real independence and perceived power that some of these people have ever had.



    Perhaps we should start a campaign for a national 'Take an Anti to the Range" day.

    Good luck!




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    Deanimator wrote:
    Whenever somebody says something like that, I simply say, "How?"

    I invite them to explain in detail how a particular gun will "just go off".

    Most often, they'll just say, "Well, I don't know anything about guns!!!" I just say, "EXACTLY..."
    It's unbelievable how people who know so little about a given subject will form such strong and unshakable opinions about said subject, all the while admitting as they spew their militant beliefs "I have no f***ing clue what I'm talking about."

    But maybe it's just me. I think with my head and can't imagine it working any other way.

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