Results 1 to 24 of 24

Thread: Patrick Henry Mall

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Yorktown VA, ,
    Posts
    306

    Post imported post

    The admiral wanted a Great American Cookie co Cookie last night and sent me on a 1930 hrs Procurement mission to Patrick Henry Mall.

    It was very Steamy so I removed my cover and went in Open... I made it all the way to where the Cookie company *was* no cookie co, So I went to the Guide by one of the doors, a security Guard was just coming back into the mall, we had Eye contact and the obligatory nod. I looked up where the cookie company was supposed to be...(The guide showed it where I thought it was...)

    Soooo, I was forced to find it on my own. Walking down the center of the mall Another security guard was loitering in the courtyard, I walked right past him and got maybe 8 yards away.. when I hear... "Sir...... Sir!...." (Well I knew that was meant for me....Sigh)

    The Guard was friendly and didn’t ask for ID or any other Stupid stuff. He asked if I was NPD...(I should have said yes.. After all he could have meant 'no public danger’ or 'Navsea Programming Department' or even ‘no pubic display’ etc…) Anyway I told him no, I was not Law Enforcement, He told me I could not have a weapon in the mall...and that it was Private property and that the laws of Virginia are not valid foranyone except LE to be armed. I told him I was just getting the Admiral a cookie, and would be leaving... he told me that Newport News Police where down at the end of the mall where the Cookie company is and they would "Take me out of the mall if they see me" I asked him if I covered it, would that be okay... he nodded ok. He also handed me a copy of the L:A:W: according to Patrick Henry MallAlso he didn’t seem concerned with my “Other weapon” a folding fighting knife clipped on my pocket where it always is…

    Rule 8. No Weapons Allowed. The carrying of any weapon, other than by an authorized law enforcement or security officer, is not permitted. Those with weapons are subject to arrest and prosecution

    Patrick Henry would be embarrassed to have his name defiled like this.

    That was the end of it, I went back out and put my cover shirt on, I then came back in the mall went and got the admiral's cookie and left. The guard was no longer standing where I encountered him... (I assume he went to the control room and watched my every move on the security grid)

    I guess it's CC for me at PHM from now on...



    Oh btw there are still no Signs…








    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

    Free Flight

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Portsmouth, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    33

    Post imported post

    Well, if its not clearly marked on the out side they cant arrest and prosecute u right?

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Bumpass, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    41

    Post imported post

    I have also seen a handout from Virginia Center Commons. That stated something like no weapons on the property either legal or illegal...... as far as i know though there are no signs posted, figure if I go there anymore its CC for me.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    4 hours south of HankT, ,
    Posts
    5,121

    Post imported post

    S&W1911 wrote:
    Well, if its not clearly marked on the out side they cant arrest and prosecute u right?
    Once they ask you to leave, you need to start moving for the door immediately or they can charge you with trespassing. Ask them if you can come back in unarmed and discuss it, but start moving for the door.

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193

    Post imported post

    Where is the effective and/or constructive trespass notice? There is as much convoluted trespass law as gun law.

    Consider the hypothetical; they ask you to leave, you decline. Can they detain you, thereby preventing your attempt to cure your offense?

    Dnam, breakfast is ready. Gotta go. Regards.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Manassas, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    399

    Post imported post

    That's how Potomac Mills is now - I will NEVER go back there again. (Long story short, I was "offered" some ecstacy, called the cops, then ended up chasing him down...to be told I wasn't allowed to be carrying concealed - the cops were nice about it though and thankful I got the guy...)

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,715

    Post imported post

    Years ago I called the Patrick Henry Mall security dep't because I noticed a signboard at one of the entrances that said "no firearms" (in very small print). He said they didn't want anyone but LEO's to carry guns, even legally concealed ones. Could that mean they have since liberalized their policy? By the way, their standard sign is at the main entrances, but not at the entrances to the large magnet stores there.

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Yorktown VA, ,
    Posts
    306

    Post imported post

    Dutch Uncle,

    I went in one of the main entrances, specifically the one by JCPenny facing Jefferson Blvd and Outback Steakhouse..., No sign anywhere


    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

    Free Flight

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member Skeptic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Goochland, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    585

    Post imported post

    Freeflight wrote:
    Patrick Henry would be embarrassed to have his name defiled like this.
    It is too bad Patrick Henry's estate can't sue them for using his name in the cause of opression. Surely Mr "Give Me Liberty, or Give Me Death" would not have added the caveat "Unless we think makes people nervous and there is some money involved"



  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Portsmouth, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    33

    Post imported post

    Does anybody know of any other malls in the area that are like this?

    Chesapeake square?

    Macarthur?

    Greenbrier?

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,715

    Post imported post

    I don't personally know about the listed malls, but a security guard tried to give me the bum's rush as I was about to leave the Pembroke Mall in Va Beach. He didn't say anything about CC, but said OC was against policy. His eyes got a little buggy when he realized I was with about a dozen other OC'ers leaving Kelly's Tavern.:shock:

    They had no signs about weapons there, which we pointed out to him and his supervisor.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Newport News, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    4,961

    Post imported post

    S&W1911 wrote:
    Does anybody know of any other malls in the area that are like this?

    Chesapeake square?

    Macarthur?

    Greenbrier?
    Last year Greenbriar had it posted in their rules at main entrance but not at big retail store entrances. I always enter via Sears,which hasno sign,and CC. I haven't checked on the sign in almost a year.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitableand let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come . PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Alexandria, Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    3,765

    Post imported post

    bruins499 wrote:
    I have also seen a handout from Virginia Center Commons. That stated something like no weapons on the property either legal or illegal...... as far as i know though there are no signs posted, figure if I go there anymore its CC for me.
    Because we all know that banning illegal weapons truly works well..... </sarcasm>
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member Skeptic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Goochland, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    585

    Post imported post

    Tess wrote:
    bruins499 wrote:
    I have also seen a handout from Virginia Center Commons. That stated something like no weapons on the property either legal or illegal...... as far as i know though there are no signs posted, figure if I go there anymore its CC for me.
    Because we all know that banning illegal weapons truly works well..... </sarcasm>
    You know maybe the next person mugged at one of these Disarmed Victim Zone malls should sue the mall for not having a "No Robbery" sign

    That is too bad about VCC, I know Short Pump Town Center is very anti-gun, which of course made it very safe for that scumbag to kidnap, rape and murder that girl last year right out of their parking lot.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Portsmouth, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    33

    Post imported post

    I don't go to malls to much but x-mas is right around the corner. "CC for me"

  16. #16
    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Dumfries, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,090

    Post imported post

    Freeflight wrote:
    Rule 8. No Weapons Allowed. The carrying of any weapon, other than by an authorized law enforcement or security officer, is not permitted. Those with weapons are subject to arrest and prosecution
    I know this is a rule from Patrick Henry Mall, but Potomac Mills updated it signs.

    It says something like: "You will be asked to leave, if you refuse, you will be arrested for trespassing and prosecuted to the fullest extend of the law."

    Potomac Mills did have almost exactly the same warning about being arrested. They backed of the scare tactics a little.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Silverdale, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,532

    Post imported post

    You guys need to organize. One person per hour walks into the mall carrying openly (cross draw would be good); after the fourth or fifth person, they’ll either get tired of telling or they’ll put up a proper sign.





  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    469

    Post imported post

    Tomahawk wrote:
    S&W1911 wrote:
    Well, if its not clearly marked on the out side they cant arrest and prosecute u right?
    Once they ask you to leave, you need to start moving for the door immediately or they can charge you with trespassing. Ask them if you can come back in unarmed and discuss it, but start moving for the door.
    Hmm... I thought that even if there was a sign, you could still carry. I never knew that signage has any bearing on the law in VA.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Arlington, VA
    Posts
    377

    Post imported post

    Folks, let'sask VCDL to make it a priority next year for the legislature to pass a "Gun-Free Zone Owner's Liability Act" whereby owners of commercial properties which have Gun-Free Zone policieswill be liable for the harm caused by criminals who commit felonies on their property since (and this can be in the preamble) the owner has created an "attractive nuisance" when they tell criminals that all of the law-abiding customers and employees on the property have been disarmed by the property owner, therefore the property owner shall now be responsible for the protection from criminal harmof all persons on his/her property.

    Whereas Gun Free Zones are Disarmed Potential Victim Zones and Criminal Safety Zones, the commercial property owner shall post a sign (specify dimensions, size of lettering and size and color of no gun symbol signage and locations where sign must be posted, such as next to or on ALL exterior doors 48 inches above the threshold)

    If the No Gun signs do not meet the requirements of the law, then trespassers cannot be prosecuted.

    Set a limit of one million dollars damagesper person harmed.

    When a law like that gets passed, I bet you will see a lot of No Gun signs quietly disappear and a lot of corporate policies in Virginia re-written. Of course passing such a bill would be difficult in the current political environment, but introducing bills such as this put the anti-self defense people on the defensive. And through constant pressure, we can prevail.

    Seehttp://www.gunlaws.com/GFZ/GFZ-BillReview.htmfor more info, including the text of legislation introduced in Arizona.

    EXCERPT:

    So-called "gun-free zones," implemented privately with door signs or by government with laws and rules, are reckless, negligent and known to be dangerous.

    After years of delay, recent shooting rampages have alerted the public and legislators to the fact that so-called "gun-free zones" are anything but gun free. They are free-fire zones where murderers know they will meet defenseless victims and no resistance.

    The Gun-Free-Zone Liability Act meets this challenge head on.

    The bill respects private property rights and allows anyone to declare a "gun-free zone." There is no cost to government. It simply attaches liability if a well-intentioned but fraudulent gun-free zone causes harm. END OF EXCERPT.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,228

    Post imported post

    XD Owner wrote:
    Folks, let'sask VCDL to make it a priority next year for the legislature to pass a "Gun-Free Zone Owner's Liability Act" whereby owners of commercial properties which have Gun-Free Zone policieswill be liable for the harm caused by criminals who commit felonies on their property since (and this can be in the preamble) the owner has created an "attractive nuisance" when they tell criminals that all of the law-abiding customers and employees on the property have been disarmed by the property owner, therefore the property owner shall now be responsible for the protection from criminal harmof all persons on his/her property.
    XD, I want to kiss you. I hope you're a woman but if not I'll claim the french custom :^).

    Well said and a great idea, let's press the obvious rights of the public going individual. Not to bring abortion into the argument but I've always noticed the same principle about that subject. Namely that if the woman has the last, ultimate say about her pregnancy then the man is not responsible for anything that has to do with it. So again, if the mall has absolute say over your right to your protection then *they* have the ultimate responsibility for your safety, period!!!

    It's that simple. Believe it, fight for it. I will and am.

    NOTE:

    If the man in an abortion case wants abortion but the woman decides to "keep" the child the man should have no responsibility towards the upkeep of that child since he had no say in it's birth. The same principle applies to mall safety. If you have no say in your own protection, the mall reserves that right to themselves, then they reserve all responsibility too. They are liable for any harm to your person during your visit.

    Now, if you think the man should have a say about his fatherhood, assuming he wants to be a father, then you have to give him *equal* say. The same is true for self-protection. If the individual is to be responsible for their own safety, *they* have to have at *least* equal say about it. PERIOD!

  21. #21
    Regular Member doug23838's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    , Virginia, USA
    Posts
    302

    Post imported post

    XD Owner wrote:
    Folks, let'sask VCDL to make it a priority next year for the legislature to pass a "Gun-Free Zone Owner's Liability Act" whereby owners of commercial properties which have Gun-Free Zone policieswill be liable for the harm caused by criminals who commit felonies on their property since (and this can be in the preamble) the owner has created an "attractive nuisance" when they tell criminals that all of the law-abiding customers and employees on the property have been disarmed by the property owner, therefore the property owner shall now be responsible for the protection from criminal harmof all persons on his/her property.
    I can get behind that.

    Can I offer a possible extension? That employers posting the property as "Gun-Free" be responsible for the safety and security of employees from the time they leave their home until they return safely there.

    If I am disarmed by policy at work, and cannot have my gun in my locked car on company property, then I must travel to and from work unarmed.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,228

    Post imported post

    doug23838 wrote:
    XD Owner wrote:
    Folks, let'sask VCDL to make it a priority next year for the legislature to pass a "Gun-Free Zone Owner's Liability Act" whereby owners of commercial properties which have Gun-Free Zone policieswill be liable for the harm caused by criminals who commit felonies on their property since (and this can be in the preamble) the owner has created an "attractive nuisance" when they tell criminals that all of the law-abiding customers and employees on the property have been disarmed by the property owner, therefore the property owner shall now be responsible for the protection from criminal harmof all persons on his/her property.
    I can get behind that.

    Can I offer a possible extension? That employers posting the property as "Gun-Free" be responsible for the safety and security of employees from the time they leave their home until they return safely there.

    If I am disarmed by policy at work, and cannot have my gun in my locked car on company property, then I must travel to and from work unarmed.
    Exactly, it's the same principle as CC in your vehicle while dropping off your kids at school. It's *your* car and as long as you don't take it out of the vehicle what business is it of theirs.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    , Virginia, USA
    Posts
    174

    Post imported post

    Signs I'd Like to See Department




    "Never pick a fight with an old spy. If he doesn't feel like fighting he'll just kill you."

    T.S. Eggleston, DmAt, MSI - aka The Eggman
    www.TheEggman.com
    www.TheEgglestonGroup.com

    "If You Can't Be Free, At Leat Be Irritating"

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    1,098

    Post imported post

    Umm, that kind of leaves non-permit holding open carriers out in the cold. How about wording that includes anyone carrying legally under the laws of the state, in any manner?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •