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Patrick Henry Mall

Freeflight

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
306
Location
Yorktown VA, ,
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The admiral wanted a Great American Cookie co Cookie last night and sent me on a 1930 hrs Procurement mission to Patrick Henry Mall.

It was very Steamy so I removed my cover and went in Open... I made it all the way to where the Cookie company *was* no cookie co, So I went to the Guide by one of the doors, a security Guard was just coming back into the mall, we had Eye contact and the obligatory nod. I looked up where the cookie company was supposed to be...(The guide showed it where I thought it was...)

Soooo, I was forced to find it on my own. Walking down the center of the mall Another security guard was loitering in the courtyard, I walked right past him and got maybe 8 yards away.. when I hear... "Sir...... Sir!...." (Well I knew that was meant for me....Sigh)

The Guard was friendly and didn’t ask for ID or any other Stupid stuff. He asked if I was NPD...(I should have said yes.. After all he could have meant 'no public danger’ or 'Navsea Programming Department' or even ‘no pubic display’ etc…) Anyway I told him no, I was not Law Enforcement, He told me I could not have a weapon in the mall...and that it was Private property and that the laws of Virginia are not valid foranyone except LE to be armed. I told him I was just getting the Admiral a cookie, and would be leaving... he told me that Newport News Police where down at the end of the mall where the Cookie company is and they would "Take me out of the mall if they see me" I asked him if I covered it, would that be okay... he nodded ok. He also handed me a copy of the L:A:W: according to Patrick Henry MallAlso he didn’t seem concerned with my “Other weapon” a folding fighting knife clipped on my pocket where it always is…

Rule 8. No Weapons Allowed. The carrying of any weapon, other than by an authorized law enforcement or security officer, is not permitted. Those with weapons are subject to arrest and prosecution

Patrick Henry would be embarrassed to have his name defiled like this.

That was the end of it, I went back out and put my cover shirt on, I then came back in the mall went and got the admiral's cookie and left. The guard was no longer standing where I encountered him... (I assume he went to the control room and watched my every move on the security grid)

I guess it's CC for me at PHM from now on...



Oh btw there are still no Signs…
 

bruins499

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Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
41
Location
Bumpass, Virginia, USA
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I have also seen a handout from Virginia Center Commons. That stated something like no weapons on the property either legal or illegal...... as far as i know though there are no signs posted, figure if I go there anymore its CC for me.
 

Tomahawk

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Oct 1, 2006
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4 hours south of HankT, ,
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S&W1911 wrote:
Well, if its not clearly marked on the out side they cant arrest and prosecute u right?
Once they ask you to leave, you need to start moving for the door immediately or they can charge you with trespassing. Ask them if you can come back in unarmed and discuss it, but start moving for the door.
 

Doug Huffman

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Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,180
Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
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Where is the effective and/or constructive trespass notice? There is as much convoluted trespass law as gun law.

Consider the hypothetical; they ask you to leave, you decline. Can they detain you, thereby preventing your attempt to cure your offense?

Dnam, breakfast is ready. Gotta go. Regards.
 

xd.40

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
399
Location
Manassas, Virginia, USA
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That's how Potomac Mills is now - I will NEVER go back there again. (Long story short, I was "offered" some ecstacy, called the cops, then ended up chasing him down...to be told I wasn't allowed to be carrying concealed - the cops were nice about it though and thankful I got the guy...)
 

Dutch Uncle

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May 11, 2006
Messages
1,715
Location
Virginia, USA
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Years ago I called the Patrick Henry Mall security dep't because I noticed a signboard at one of the entrances that said "no firearms" (in very small print). He said they didn't want anyone but LEO's to carry guns, even legally concealed ones. Could that mean they have since liberalized their policy? By the way, their standard sign is at the main entrances, but not at the entrances to the large magnet stores there.
 

Freeflight

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Joined
Sep 28, 2007
Messages
306
Location
Yorktown VA, ,
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Dutch Uncle,

I went in one of the main entrances, specifically the one by JCPenny facing Jefferson Blvd and Outback Steakhouse..., No sign anywhere:cool:
 

Skeptic

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2007
Messages
585
Location
Goochland, Virginia, USA
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Freeflight wrote:
Patrick Henry would be embarrassed to have his name defiled like this.
It is too bad Patrick Henry's estate can't sue them for using his name in the cause of opression. Surely Mr "Give Me Liberty, or Give Me Death" would not have added the caveat "Unless we think makes people nervous and there is some money involved"
 

Dutch Uncle

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Joined
May 11, 2006
Messages
1,715
Location
Virginia, USA
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I don't personally know about the listed malls, but a security guard tried to give me the bum's rush as I was about to leave the Pembroke Mall in Va Beach. He didn't say anything about CC, but said OC was against policy. His eyes got a little buggy when he realized I was with about a dozen other OC'ers leaving Kelly's Tavern.:shock:

They had no signs about weapons there, which we pointed out to him and his supervisor.
 

Thundar

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Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,946
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
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S&W1911 wrote:
Does anybody know of any other malls in the area that are like this?

Chesapeake square?

Macarthur?

Greenbrier?
Last year Greenbriar had it posted in their rules at main entrance but not at big retail store entrances. I always enter via Sears,which hasno sign,and CC. I haven't checked on the sign in almost a year.
 

Tess

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Joined
Jun 15, 2006
Messages
3,837
Location
Bryan, TX
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bruins499 wrote:
I have also seen a handout from Virginia Center Commons. That stated something like no weapons on the property either legal or illegal...... as far as i know though there are no signs posted, figure if I go there anymore its CC for me.
Because we all know that banning illegal weapons truly works well..... </sarcasm>
 

Skeptic

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Oct 2, 2007
Messages
585
Location
Goochland, Virginia, USA
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Tess wrote:
bruins499 wrote:
I have also seen a handout from Virginia Center Commons. That stated something like no weapons on the property either legal or illegal...... as far as i know though there are no signs posted, figure if I go there anymore its CC for me.
Because we all know that banning illegal weapons truly works well..... </sarcasm>
You know maybe the next person mugged at one of these Disarmed Victim Zone malls should sue the mall for not having a "No Robbery" sign :lol::lol::banghead::banghead:

That is too bad about VCC, I know Short Pump Town Center is very anti-gun, which of course made it very safe for that scumbag to kidnap, rape and murder that girl last year right out of their parking lot.
 

possumboy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
1,089
Location
Dumfries, Virginia, USA
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Freeflight wrote:
Rule 8. No Weapons Allowed. The carrying of any weapon, other than by an authorized law enforcement or security officer, is not permitted. Those with weapons are subject to arrest and prosecution

I know this is a rule from Patrick Henry Mall, but Potomac Mills updated it signs.

It says something like: "You will be asked to leave, if you refuse, you will be arrested for trespassing and prosecuted to the fullest extend of the law."

Potomac Mills did have almost exactly the same warning about being arrested. They backed of the scare tactics a little.
 

Mainsail

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Apr 24, 2007
Messages
1,533
Location
Silverdale, Washington, USA
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You guys need to organize. One person per hour walks into the mall carrying openly (cross draw would be good); after the fourth or fifth person, they’ll either get tired of telling or they’ll put up a proper sign.



:D
 

mercutio545

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2006
Messages
469
Location
VA
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Tomahawk wrote:
S&amp;W1911 wrote:
Well, if its not clearly marked on the out side they cant arrest and prosecute u right?
Once they ask you to leave, you need to start moving for the door immediately or they can charge you with trespassing. Ask them if you can come back in unarmed and discuss it, but start moving for the door.
Hmm... I thought that even if there was a sign, you could still carry. I never knew that signage has any bearing on the law in VA.
 

XD Owner

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Aug 3, 2006
Messages
377
Location
Arlington, VA
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Folks, let'sask VCDL to make it a priority next year for the legislature to pass a "Gun-Free Zone Owner's Liability Act" whereby owners of commercial properties which have Gun-Free Zone policieswill be liable for the harm caused by criminals who commit felonies on their property since (and this can be in the preamble) the owner has created an "attractive nuisance" when they tell criminals that all of the law-abiding customers and employees on the property have been disarmed by the property owner, therefore the property owner shall now be responsible for the protection from criminal harmof all persons on his/her property.

Whereas Gun Free Zones are Disarmed Potential Victim Zones and Criminal Safety Zones, the commercial property owner shall post a sign (specify dimensions, size of lettering and size and color of no gun symbol signage and locations where sign must be posted, such as next to or on ALL exterior doors 48 inches above the threshold)

If the No Gun signs do not meet the requirements of the law, then trespassers cannot be prosecuted.

Set a limit of one million dollars damagesper person harmed.

When a law like that gets passed, I bet you will see a lot of No Gun signs quietly disappear and a lot of corporate policies in Virginia re-written. Of course passing such a bill would be difficult in the current political environment, but introducing bills such as this put the anti-self defense people on the defensive. And through constant pressure, we can prevail.

Seehttp://www.gunlaws.com/GFZ/GFZ-BillReview.htmfor more info, including the text of legislation introduced in Arizona.

EXCERPT:

So-called "gun-free zones," implemented privately with door signs or by government with laws and rules, are reckless, negligent and known to be dangerous.

After years of delay, recent shooting rampages have alerted the public and legislators to the fact that so-called "gun-free zones" are anything but gun free. They are free-fire zones where murderers know they will meet defenseless victims and no resistance.

The Gun-Free-Zone Liability Act meets this challenge head on.

The bill respects private property rights and allows anyone to declare a "gun-free zone." There is no cost to government. It simply attaches liability if a well-intentioned but fraudulent gun-free zone causes harm. END OF EXCERPT.
 

Neplusultra

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,224
Location
Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
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XD Owner wrote:
Folks, let'sask VCDL to make it a priority next year for the legislature to pass a "Gun-Free Zone Owner's Liability Act" whereby owners of commercial properties which have Gun-Free Zone policieswill be liable for the harm caused by criminals who commit felonies on their property since (and this can be in the preamble) the owner has created an "attractive nuisance" when they tell criminals that all of the law-abiding customers and employees on the property have been disarmed by the property owner, therefore the property owner shall now be responsible for the protection from criminal harmof all persons on his/her property.
XD, I want to kiss you. I hope you're a woman but if not I'll claim the french custom :^).

Well said and a great idea, let's press the obvious rights of the public going individual. Not to bring abortion into the argument but I've always noticed the same principle about that subject. Namely that if the woman has the last, ultimate say about her pregnancy then the man is not responsible for anything that has to do with it. So again, if the mall has absolute say over your right to your protection then *they* have the ultimate responsibility for your safety, period!!!

It's that simple. Believe it, fight for it. I will and am.

NOTE:

If the man in an abortion case wants abortion but the woman decides to "keep" the child the man should have no responsibility towards the upkeep of that child since he had no say in it's birth. The same principle applies to mall safety. If you have no say in your own protection, the mall reserves that right to themselves, then they reserve all responsibility too. They are liable for any harm to your person during your visit.

Now, if you think the man should have a say about his fatherhood, assuming he wants to be a father, then you have to give him *equal* say. The same is true for self-protection. If the individual is to be responsible for their own safety, *they* have to have at *least* equal say about it. PERIOD!
 
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