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Thread: Moderation

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Well I've been doing the job for a week or so now and I just wanted to check how everyone thinks its working out. After all I work for you all.

    I've been trying to do the task with a few guidelines in mind. Firstly the forum rules:

    1) Since we are a site dedicated to open carry, freedom, liberty, firearms and gun rights, all posts should relate in some way to one of these topics.

    2) Keep the profanity to a minimum. While an expletive may be the only way to convey the depth of anger / surprise or frustration you are trying to express, please do not use them gratuitously.

    3) Links to spam/membership sites not related directly to firearms are NOT allowed under any circumstances!

    4) While you may disagree strongly with another poster based upon their opinion, we will NOT tolerate any personal attacks based upon race, religion or sex.

    5) We reserve the right to remove posting for any reason, at our sole discretion.

    I would add that I have gone beyond the rules with personal attacks, basically trying to keep the flames away by clamping down on fighting words. As my signature line says 'we carry guns here act accordingly', if I saw armed people conversing in the way a few folks do around here I'd be worried about a gunfight breaking out. Since this is a very social forum with real life meetups letting that kind of trash talk go on is not a good thing.

    This doesn't mean everyone has to agree with each other but we should be civil about it.

    Anyhow if you all have question, concerns, or complaints this is the place for it.



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    Does #1 apply to the new general forum?

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Yes but I'm thinking more latitude should be allowed there, but not a free for all. Immigration is evil or Hillary Clinton is a socialist type topics won't make the cut.

  4. #4
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    Thats what I was hoping for. I think a general forum has been needed. Granted, this is a OC forum, but sometime I like to discuss other stuff with this crowd. (water fuel, for example)

  5. #5
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    Well I've been doing the job for a week or so now and I just wanted to check how everyone thinks its working out. After all I work for you all.
    I appreciate that you are asking for feedback on the job you're doing. Before I launch into my 'constructive criticism,' let me say that I understand moderating is not an easy task. You'll never make 100% of the members here happy. I'm also pretty sure you're doing the work as a volunteer; a job I don't think I would do unpaid. Now, all the positive, fuzzy-warm thoughts out of the way...

    1) Since we are a site dedicated to open carry, freedom, liberty, firearms and gun rights, all posts should relate in some way to one of these topics.
    I have no problem with a desire to keep posts on topic. However, you have deleted at least one thread that was explicitly on topic: philosophy of 2A rights' limitations. (I'm sure you know which one I'm talking about, as we discussed this in another thread.) There was no call for deletion of that thread; we had a good, friendly debate going.

    5) We reserve the right to remove posting for any reason, at our sole discretion.
    The only legitimate purpose rule #5 servers is to explain that it is up to the moderators' discretion what violates the other rules. For example, if you and I disagree that the 2A philosphy thread was off topic, then you win. However, I don't think it was deleted for being off topic. 'Just because I can' doesn't sit well with me. Try not to abuse the power or you'll see people starting another forum where the moderators are more reasonable.


    As my signature line says 'we carry guns here act accordingly', if I saw armed people conversing in the way a few folks do around here I'd be worried about a gunfight breaking out.

    I disagree with this method of moderating, especially on a forum where we have meetups. I would rather know up front who the ******** are BEFORE we meet up. Obviously, if someone is using excessive profanity or racial slurs, then just ban the account. If a thread turns into a flame war, it's off-topic and should be locked. Otherwise, I think we all have a right to know who the stupid people are.

    Again, I appreciate what you're doing. I hope you don't take my criticism personally. I really think you have a lot of potential; but there is room for improvement.
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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Assclown
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  7. #7
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I'm not sure which thread you are talking about, I've only deleted one that had some NSFW links on it.

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    longwatch wrote:
    I'm not sure which thread you are talking about, I've only deleted one that had some NSFW links on it.
    The "Should people be allowed to have 'dirty bombs'?" one, I believe he is referring to.

    I agree with CA_Libertarian's comments, and also would like to add that while you allege that you've only deleted one thread, it seems as though the padlock is underused and thread deletion is overused. If a thread is promoting illegal activity, or has kiddie porn embedded in it, contains spam, or something of the ilk, then by all means delete the thread. But if a thread is merely off-topic or inflammatory, then a padlock would suffice, leaving it open for reading in the future... it might even be very useful for posters to gauge what's acceptable and what's not. Don't get me wrong, longwatch, I have no way of telling who makes threads disappear so I'm not accusing you of doing it, but in my opinion, at least, locking threads on a forum like this should be much more common than complete deletion.



    Now, if my account suddenly gets deleted, y'all know who to blame...

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I can't delete accounts so have no worry about me doing that. I can delete posts and threads, move and merge threads as well as edit posts.

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    No complaints.

    That doesn't count for much, though. I've not been reading and posting too much lately.

    Are we still insisting on cites, quotes, and, if possible, links?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  11. #11
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Absolutely but that one is more of a standard of conduct than a rule.

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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    However, you have deleted at least one thread that was explicitly on topic: philosophy of 2A rights' limitations

    imperialism2024 wrote:
    longwatch wrote:
    I'm not sure which thread you are talking about, I've only deleted one that had some NSFW links on it.
    The "Should people be allowed to have 'dirty bombs'?" one, I believe he is referring to.
    Yes, that is the thread I was referring to. To clarify, when I said "...you have delted..." I meant it in the plural, as in the moderators in general. I was using that thread deletion as an example of how rule #1 did not fit the situation.


    I am still left wondering why the thread was deleted. I saw absolutely nothing off topic or NSFW there... maybe we should just start the thread again; it was a really interesting debate.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
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    Don't Tread On Me.

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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    To clarify, when I said "...you have delted..." I meant it in the plural, as in the moderators in general.
    Oh, c'mon CA_Libertarian, you should know that the plural of "you" is "y'all"


    ETA: I agree with you that I don't see how the thread was off-topic or inappropriate for work. I can see that the Department of Homeland Security or the BATFE might have a problem with it, but that's why we have that pesky First Amendment... not to mention that half the threads on here contain content that goes against The Party.

  14. #14
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    To clarify, when I said "...you have delted..." I meant it in the plural, as in the moderators in general.
    Oh, c'mon CA_Libertarian, you should know that the plural of "you" is "y'all"


    ETA: I agree with you that I don't see how the thread was off-topic or inappropriate for work. I can see that the Department of Homeland Security or the BATFE might have a problem with it, but that's why we have that pesky First Amendment... not to mention that half the threads on here contain content that goes against The Party.
    The first thing I was taught when I moved to Texas was:

    y'all is singular
    all y'all is plural


    Frankly, I wish the moderation were stronger. I'd like to see a warning issued when three or more posts to a thread start to become bickering, and the thread locked completely if it goes beyond that.

    There are a half-dozen or so posters who can't let an argument drop, or at least bring it back to an OT sense.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Frankly, I wish the moderation were stronger. I'd like to see a warning issued when three or more posts to a thread start to become bickering, and the thread locked completely if it goes beyond that.
    An association of men who will not quarrel with one another is a thing which has never yet existed, from the greatest confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry.
    Thomas Jefferson

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    Tess wrote:
    The first thing I was taught when I moved to Texas was:

    y'all is singular
    all y'all is plural


    Frankly, I wish the moderation were stronger. I'd like to see a warning issued when three or more posts to a thread start to become bickering, and the thread locked completely if it goes beyond that.

    There are a half-dozen or so posters who can't let an argument drop, or at least bring it back to an OT sense.
    +1

    On correct grammar and moderation.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  17. #17
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I try to do what I can, fortunately others have acted as another set of eyes, telling me where moderation is needed.

  18. #18
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    We will also be there to let you know when moderation is not needed as well. I personally thank you for easing off the gas and stopping to reload after pulling the trigger too quickly a time or two in the VA forum. I am not a troll or here to bust your balls. I am active in the richmond area dinners and with VCDL and have had some success in dealing with issues in my county thanks to members here and with help from vcdl. I'm also of the opinion if its not broke don't fix it, regular maintenance is ok but otherwise leave it alone. The forum was here before both of us and it will be here after we are both long gone (provided someone pays for the server). Overzealous moderators will kill a site just as quickly as flame wars and the trolls that instigate them.

    Joe

  19. #19
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Actually Im proud to say I was here at the beginning of this forum. It worked a lot better then because we had self moderation. Something that is too often lacking now.

  20. #20
    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    I would like to see the addition of a forum for General OT Discussion. Something where topics that are not directly tied to OC, but are part of the big picture. Somethingthat would allow a little more discussion than the existing General Discussion. Overall though, the added moderation was needed to control flamewars and you are doing a good job, longwatch.

  21. #21
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    Just a question for longwatch, member moderator. I trust that you can answer this.


    Sometimes, when people discuss subjects on OCDO, they will disagree. When this happens, usually, a person will state what his disagreement is. Then, usually, there will be a reply to that disagreement and the conversation/debate/discussion/argument will proceed until it's done.

    But sometimes, it just would be good to end all that back-and-forth stuff and simply tell the other discussant to be quiet and cease writing his opinion. If the person "causing" the disagreement were only to be quiet and just stifle it, things would just be better...

    One way to accomplish this quietness is to request or order an OCDO member to be quiet and cease writing his opinion. If the guy is named, George, one could say, "Please do not write your opinions anymore, George. I do not wish to read them."

    Or one could say, "George, shut up!" That would send the same message in a different style.


    Finally, with a distinct sense of immediacy or for some other reason, one OCDOer might say, "****, George."



    What do you think, longwatch?

    1. Is it OK for one OCDOer to post that another OCDOer should "shut up?"

    2.Is it OK for one OCDOer to post here that another OCDOer should: "****?"


    Ifboth of thesestatements are OK withyou, I (and probably others) want to start using them.But it's best to check first.





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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentation_theory and see the references.

    The first step in an argument is an agreement to accord. (Argumentation: The Study of Effective Reasoning by David Zarefsky)

  23. #23
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    On a more general note regarding moderation... I'm a bit disheartened that openryan's recently posted thread about Fred Thompson and abortion was locked. While a thread of "cool YouTube videos" is relevant to the purposes of this forum, it seems that a debate about the freedom a woman has over her body is somehow not even tangetally relevant to freedom. Hmpf.

    I have the odd feeling that the response will be, "We, the moderators, can lock/delete any thread at any time for any reason and in a completely arbitrary or politically-motivated manner."



  24. #24
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    On a more general note regarding moderation... I'm a bit disheartened that openryan's recently posted thread about Fred Thompson and abortion was locked. While a thread of "cool YouTube videos" is relevant to the purposes of this forum, it seems that a debate about the freedom a woman has over her body is somehow not even tangetally relevant to freedom. Hmpf.

    I have the odd feeling that the response will be, "We, the moderators, can lock/delete any thread at any time for any reason and in a completely arbitrary or politically-motivated manner."


    See Rule 5....

    I notice no one took responsibility for that lock. Lately, too, posts are deleted without any "deleted by" notation. So, it is uncertain as to who locked the thread. Longwatch? BobCav?

    Who is John Galt?



  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    On a more general note regarding moderation... I'm a bit disheartened that openryan's recently posted thread about Fred Thompson and abortion was locked. While a thread of "cool YouTube videos" is relevant to the purposes of this forum, it seems that a debate about the freedom a woman has over her body is somehow not even tangetally relevant to freedom. Hmpf.

    I have the odd feeling that the response will be, "We, the moderators, can lock/delete any thread at any time for any reason and in a completely arbitrary or politically-motivated manner."


    Nothing I do is arbitrary, my motivation is to do what I think is best for the forum. I figured that thread had no chance of not producing flames, even the OP tghought so. However I've reopened it, I'll be happy to be wrong on that one.

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