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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Instead of answering this question, which in my opinion is rude to ask someone to begin with, I propose the following suggestions:

    I'm with OCF (which we all know is Open Carry Forum)

    Do you need some assistance?

    I'm shopping with my family right now, OK?

    I just came here to eat. What's your specials today?

    You get the idea.

    Not to coerce someone into thinking you are an LEO when you're not, just to steer them away from a potential confrontation.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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    I usually respond with "Why? Is there a problem?" to which they reply "well no, but.." then I cut them off and "ok then, have a nice day".

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I still like 'No I'm just a guy'. I think it's best just to be straight, because what happens if they are asking because they do need an LEO? Mighty embarassing I'd think.

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    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Instead of answering this question, which in my opinion is rude to ask someone to begin with, I propose the following suggestions:
    It's not necessarily rude and it's not that big of a deal.

    Just say no.

    Whatever you do, if it is a woman,PLEASE DO NOT ask her if she hasa vagina.

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    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Not to coerce someone into thinking you are an LEO when you're not, just to steer them away from a potential confrontation.
    No, it's trying to mislead people into thinking you're an LEO. Why anyone would want to be seen as an LEO is beyond me, but regardless, IMO, it's just as bad as wearing a "concealed carry badge" or writing "gas guzzler tickets". I remember a thread about this a ways back...

    But really, is it that hard to just say "No"?

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    I just say no. It's a great way to start up a conversation. That way I can tell them that OC is completely legal.

    Hell I've been telling everybody I can. I've printed out all the documents I could get my hands on and giving them to everybody I can. The more people that know that it's illegal the less "men with a gun" calls that go bad. IMO


    Oooops!!!!

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    Kastaway wrote:
    I just say no. It's a great way to start up a conversation. That way I can tell them that OC is completely illegal.

    Hell I've been telling everybody I can. I've printed out all the documents I could get my hands on and giving them to everybody I can. The more people that know that it's illegal the less "men with a gun" calls that go bad. IMO
    That's good, too. While it wouldn't lessen the number of confrontations at first, it will lead to fewer in the long run. When the people you talk to tell the people they talk to and so on, no more people will be asking "Are you a cop?" because they'll know that it's legal for civilians to carry a gun. Now, if you're carrying a police-issue gun model, then maybe you'll still get questions...

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    Just say "no, thank you." and continue on with your business.

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    reply... "Why, are you selling donuts?"

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    Cream filled Please....

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    Kastaway wrote:
    I just say no. It's a great way to start up a conversation. That way I can tell them that OC is completely illegal.

    Hell I've been telling everybody I can. I've printed out all the documents I could get my hands on and giving them to everybody I can. The more people that know that it's illegal the less "men with a gun" calls that go bad. IMO
    I'm sure that encounter ends well :P



    I just say "no, do I look like a cop?" I'm actually in good shape. (couldn't resist that one).

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    BobCav wrote:
    reply... "Why, are you selling donuts?"
    Hmmm.. Donuts!!!

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Not to coerce someone into thinking you are an LEO when you're not, just to steer them away from a potential confrontation.
    “Are you a police officer?”
    No


    I will always answer that question definitively. If they counter with the standard follow-up question, “What do you do then?” I give them the same answer I give to the police when they ask, “Where are you coming from tonight?” or “Why do you have a gun?”

    “I think that’s my business.”

    Yes, after being harassed, threatened, and lied to by the TPD, I no longer feel any obligation to engage them in conversation. If it’s a citizen, I’ll try to judge, based on their demeanor, if they are trying to set me up for a lecture or genuinely curious and answer accordingly.

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    I actually used the answer "No. Are you?" to the lady cutting my hair. She seemed like she wasn't to freaked out, so I figured a humorous response was alright.

    On a semi-related note, I have noticed that I get better service when I OC. No, not for that reason. It's because it's uncommon enough that when I walk into a store some other time, I am immediately recognized. And if you are a fairly nice guy and a good tipper like me, the staff knowing who you are is a good thing.

    So, it is in your interest to be polite, because that gun on your hip will get you recognised and remembered. How do you want to be known?

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    Lets all just break down and be one of the "gods amongst men"

    I really want to make $29,000 a year and deal with scum all the time.

    To give reverence to a cop is disgusting. I don't want them nor have

    I EVER called them. I carry and that is ALL the help I need.

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    nauss wrote:
    ... I carry and that is ALL the help I need.
    Do you open carry?

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    nauss wrote:
    Lets all just break down and be one of the "gods amongst men"

    I really want to make $29,000 a year and deal with scum all the time.

    To give reverence to a cop is disgusting. I don't want them nor have

    I EVER called them. I carry and that is ALL the help I need.
    Please allow me to take this time to thank you for your kind words.

    I like being able to help others and answer questions to permit them to be safe and use the law to their advantage. It is fortunate that I do not really deal with just the scum of society. I talk to everyday citizens and victims of crime too.

    I protect and defend those that are not capable of doing it themselves due to age, handicap, mental deficiency, or injury.

    I arrest the scum that break into homes and cars,rape, rob, assault, andkill others.

    It is good to know that good people like you are out there that do not want us and do not call us. This gives me more time to help those truly in need.

    I hope that you will have the resources and expertise to conduct your own investigations if you and your family areever avictim of any crime. Your gun can only do just so much.

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    HankT wrote:
    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Instead of answering this question, which in my opinion is rude to ask someone to begin with, I propose the following suggestions:
    It's not necessarily rude and it's not that big of a deal.

    Just say no.

    Whatever you do, if it is a woman,PLEASE DO NOT ask her if she hasa vagina.
    Hank, did you get slapped?!

  19. #19
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
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    PavePusher wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    paramedic70002 wrote:
    Instead of answering this question, which in my opinion is rude to ask someone to begin with, I propose the following suggestions:
    It's not necessarily rude and it's not that big of a deal.

    Just say no.

    Whatever you do, if it is a woman,PLEASE DO NOT ask her if she hasa vagina.
    Hank, did you get slapped?!
    Nah. I didn't do it.

    Mark did:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum6/5360.html

    He was rather pleased with himself...

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    nauss wrote:
    Lets all just break down and be one of the "gods amongst men"

    I really want to make $29,000 a year and deal with scum all the time.

    To give reverence to a cop is disgusting. I don't want them nor have

    I EVER called them. I carry and that is ALL the help I need.
    Please allow me to take this time to thank you for your kind words.

    I like being able to help others and answer questions to permit them to be safe and use the law to their advantage. It is fortunate that I do not really deal with just the scum of society. I talk to everyday citizens and victims of crime too.

    I protect and defend those that are not capable of doing it themselves due to age, handicap, mental deficiency, or injury.

    I arrest the scum that break into homes and cars,rape, rob, assault, andkill others.

    It is good to know that good people like you are out there that do not want us and do not call us. This gives me more time to help those truly in need.

    I hope that you will have the resources and expertise to conduct your own investigations if you and your family areever avictim of any crime. Your gun can only do just so much.
    If this is true, thank you. I wish some of the cops out here could take a lesson from you, because it's become pretty clear that the majority of them are not interested in helping people. We need more police officers that feel the way you do about helping people. I'm not saying that none of them have the right attitude; I'm saying that there are enough (however few) that don't. Thank you for setting a good example. I hope more people will follow it.

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    expvideo wrote:
    If this is true, thank you. I wish some of the cops out here could take a lesson from you, because it's become pretty clear that the majority of them are not interested in helping people. We need more police officers that feel the way you do about helping people. I'm not saying that none of them have the right attitude; I'm saying that there are enough (however few) that don't. Thank you for setting a good example. I hope more people will follow it.
    Let me put this out there.....

    Just like this board.... There are always a few odd balls.

    The majority of the memberson this forum liketo chat about guns and are good people. There will always be a few trolls that want to overthrow the government and be problematic here.

    The same can be said for any LE agency. The majority are there for good and there will be a few that like to push people around.

    I know a great many "good cops" and not because I side with the men and women in blue. I have also seen a few cops with attitudes.

    The cops that hang out with me adopt my views and treat others well. I do admonish them when they do something out of line.

  22. #22
    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    I think I've been asked this question probably 20-30 times. I always reply "No, why do you ask?" The usual answer is "you have a gun", and then I have a good opportunity to explain why I carry and also I am able to explain OC. It works for me...

  23. #23
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    expvideo wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    nauss wrote:
    Lets all just break down and be one of the "gods amongst men"

    I really want to make $29,000 a year and deal with scum all the time.

    To give reverence to a cop is disgusting. I don't want them nor have

    I EVER called them. I carry and that is ALL the help I need.
    Please allow me to take this time to thank you for your kind words.

    I like being able to help others and answer questions to permit them to be safe and use the law to their advantage. It is fortunate that I do not really deal with just the scum of society. I talk to everyday citizens and victims of crime too.

    I protect and defend those that are not capable of doing it themselves due to age, handicap, mental deficiency, or injury.

    I arrest the scum that break into homes and cars,rape, rob, assault, andkill others.

    It is good to know that good people like you are out there that do not want us and do not call us. This gives me more time to help those truly in need.

    I hope that you will have the resources and expertise to conduct your own investigations if you and your family areever avictim of any crime. Your gun can only do just so much.
    If this is true, thank you. I wish some of the cops out here could take a lesson from you, because it's become pretty clear that the majority of them are not interested in helping people. We need more police officers that feel the way you do about helping people. I'm not saying that none of them have the right attitude; I'm saying that there are enough (however few) that don't. Thank you for setting a good example. I hope more people will follow it.

    Well..., LEO's are only an Auxiliary General Deterrent...,

    http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/ka...rotection.html

    "It is, therefore, a fact of law and of practical necessity that individuals are responsible for their own personal safety, and that of their loved ones. Police protection must be recognized for what it is: only an auxiliary general deterrent. "

    ...,and serve the Public in General and are under NOCONSTITUTIONAL OBLIGATION/DUTY to serve you as an individual Per the Supreme Court, and therefore does not feel OBLIGATED to be NICE.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1432132/posts

    Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone
    ]http://www.nytimes.com/auth/login?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html&OP=4b5cde51Q2F)(K_)Q7EQ3DTl7Q3DQ 3Dq3)3gg1)gF)3Q27)PQ3DQ26Q5EqQ5ETl)3Q27lTQ3DqQ3Blm 9qYQ26]New York Times ^[/url]| June 28, 2005 | Linda Greenhouse

    Posted on 06/28/2005 1:46:17 AM PDT by Nathan Zachary

    WASHINGTON, June 27 - The Supreme Court ruled on Monday, overturning a ruling by a federal appeals court in Colorado... police d not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm...The appeals court had permitted a lawsuit to proceed against a Colorado town, Castle Rock, for the failure of the police to respond to a woman's pleas for help after her estranged husband violated a protective order by kidnapping their three young daughters, whom he eventually killed....

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.frfrogspad.com/fantasy.htm

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.users.fast.net/~behanna/kasler.html

    "Warren v. District of Columbia is one of the leading cases of this type. Two women were upstairs in a townhouse when they heard their roommate, a third woman, being attacked downstairs by intruders. They phoned the police several times and were assured that officers were on the way. After about 30 minutes, when their roommate’s screams had stopped, they assumed the police had finally arrived. When the two women went downstairs they saw that in fact the police never came, but the intruders were still there. As the Warren court graphically states in the opinion: “For the next fourteen hours the women were held captive, raped, robbed, beaten, forced to commit sexual acts upon each other, and made to submit to the sexual demands of their attackers.”

    The three women sued the District of Columbia for failing to protect them, but D.C.’s highest court exonerated the District and its police, saying that it is a “fundamental principle of American law that a government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any individual citizen.”[4] There are many similar cases with results to the same effect.[5] "

    "The seminal case establishing the general rule that police have no duty under federal law to protect citizens is DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services[6]"



    Per ALL these and MANY, MANY articles agrees with that LEO's does NOT have to play nice and ALL your $$$ goes to Expensive Donuts.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://libertypost.org/cgi-bin/reada...6&Trace=on

    "Title: CALIFORNIA DREAMING:ÂPolice have no obligation to protect any individual from harm
    Source: http://www.outlawslegal.com/
    URL Source: http://www.outlawslegal.com/G00/G07.htm
    Published: Jul 16, 2007
    Author: OUTLAWS LEGAL
    Post Date: 2007-07-16 16:20:16 by Freedom_Rider
    Ping List: *California*
    8 Comments

    CALIFORNIA DREAMING Police have no obligation to protect any individual from harm
    "Do you believe that law enforcement officers have a duty to protect you from harm?" Ask yourself that question, and, your answer is . . . . ?
    That is a question I have frequently asked. The overwhelming majority of answers have been affirmative; ranging from "Yes." to "That's what they are paid to do!" The next logical question is "How can we be certain we know the correct answer?"
    The correct answer is found in appellate court decisions. The following summaries of a few appellate court decisions will provide some insight into this area of the law. These example cases are from California - but understand that the police are not responsible for your individual safety in any state. "

    "

    Its hard to believe - but there are numerous court cases, all of which show that " the Police have no obligation to protect any individual person from harm "
    Here are some examples:
    DeShaney v. Winnebago County Social Services (1989) 489 US 189
    Bower v. DeVito (1982) 686 F.2d 616
    Calgorides v. Mobile (1985) 475 So.2d 560
    Warren v. District of Columbia (1983) 444 A.2d 1
    Morgan v. District of Columbia (1983) 469 A.2d 1306
    Sapp v. Tallahassee (1977) 348 So.2d 363, cert.denied 354 So.2d 985
    Keane v. Chicago (1968) 98 Ill.App.2d 460, 240 N.E.2d 321
    Jamison v. Chicago (1977) 48 Ill.3d 567
    Simpson's Food Fair v. Evansville 272 N.E. 2d 871
    Silver v. Minneapolis (1969)) 170 N.W.2d 206
    Wuetrich v. Delia (1978) 155 N.J.Super. 324, 382 A.2d 929
    Chapman v. Philadelphia (1981) 290 Pa.Super. 324, 382 A.2d 753
    Morris v. Musser, (1984) 84 Pa.Cmwth. 170, 478 A.2d 937
    Weiner v. Metropolitan Authority, and Shernov v. New York Transit Authority (1982) 55 N.Y.2d 175, 948 N.Y.S. 141
    Who does have a duty to protect a person from harm? Parents have a duty to protect their children, but other than that, the short answer is no one has that duty.
    The ultimate responsibility for your protection is self protection, and you should take care to undertake that responsibility if you value your life and that of your loved ones. "


  24. #24
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    Yes, UTOC-45-44, that is why I carry a gun.



    LEO 229 wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    If this is true, thank you. I wish some of the cops out here could take a lesson from you, because it's become pretty clear that the majority of them are not interested in helping people. We need more police officers that feel the way you do about helping people. I'm not saying that none of them have the right attitude; I'm saying that there are enough (however few) that don't. Thank you for setting a good example. I hope more people will follow it.
    Let me put this out there.....

    Just like this board.... There are always a few odd balls.

    The majority of the memberson this forum liketo chat about guns and are good people. There will always be a few trolls that want to overthrow the government and be problematic here.

    The same can be said for any LE agency. The majority are there for good and there will be a few that like to push people around.

    I know a great many "good cops" and not because I side with the men and women in blue. I have also seen a few cops with attitudes.

    The cops that hang out with me adopt my views and treat others well. I do admonish them when they do something out of line.
    Thank you for doing what you do.

  25. #25
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    That's what we are in a way trying to "tell" people by our OC dinners.

    It's working cuz we are meeting people EVERYDAY that has no clue of their Individual Rights and lack of "Police Protection". After I tell a few things they are heading down the store to Protect themselves.


    "Protect and Serve":quirky

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