OC in bar

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I dont carry when i have been drinking but i know people that do i was wondering what everybody thinks about it. I also was in a bar the other day and a guy was ocing in the bar and i know he is not a cop and he was drinking. I couldnt believe it. i dont know, i still always keeps my gun i my car.

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Simple rule---------- If you party you don't pack.

Or my other rule, just like when riding the motorcycle, I have a one beer limit, and my bartenders when they see my helmet when I walk in, make sure I follow that rule.

Then again over here in Ohio we can't carry in a bar, or estraunt that serves.....So sorta a mute point.

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HMDGLOCK wrote:

I dont carry when i have been drinking but i know people that do i was wondering what everybody thinks about it. I also was in a bar the other day and a guy was ocing in the bar and i know he is not a cop and he was drinking. I couldnt believe it. i dont know, i still always keeps my gun i my car.

Click to expand...

What bar, it may have been me...

In Indiana OC, or any other mode of carry is legal in a bar.

I said in another post somewhere...

I do carry when I go to the bar for a drink(s)/food. However, if I know ahead of time it is a special occassion, or it will be a club type atmosphere I DO NOT carry inside, as I know I will be drinking quite a bit. Going in to watch a game and have a couple brews while packing isn't horrible, but you need to be aware and use good judgement.

And if the bar does not have seats I will not oc, only if I will be sitting.

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HMDGLOCK wrote:

I dont carry when i have been drinking but i know people that do i was wondering what everybody thinks about it. I also was in a bar the other day and a guy was ocing in the bar and i know he is not a cop and he was drinking. I couldnt believe it. i dont know, i still always keeps my gun i my car.

Click to expand...

Well, let's put it this way: a man who carries a loaded firearm has the power of life or death over others in his space.

This is similar to a surgeon or other health care professional who at times has life or death power over others at particular times.

I think it makes about as much sense for a guy with a loaded gun to be drinking in public as it does for a surgeon or other care-giver to be drinking while they are on the job.

There are about 850,000 sworn law enforcement officers who carry a gun. They have life and death power over others in their space. All of these LEOs are prohibited from drinking on the job.

:idea:There must be a reason for that....

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HankT wrote:

HMDGLOCK wrote:

I dont carry when i have been drinking but i know people that do i was wondering what everybody thinks about it. I also was in a bar the other day and a guy was ocing in the bar and i know he is not a cop and he was drinking. I couldnt believe it. i dont know, i still always keeps my gun i my car.

Click to expand...

Well, let's put it this way: a man who carries a loaded firearm has the power of life or death over others in his space.

This is similar to a surgeon or other health care professional who at times has life or death power over others at particular times.

I think it makes about as much sense for a guy with a loaded gun to be drinking in public as it does for a surgeon or other care-giver to be drinking while they are on the job.

There are about 850,000 sworn law enforcement officers who carry a gun. They have life and death power over others in their space. All of these LEOs are prohibited from drinking on the job.

:idea:There must be a reason for that....

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Surgeons and Police are GAURANTEED to be operating/get into a confrontation.

You could of course retreat, or use your best judgement, I think it comes down to a person placing a limit on their alcohol.

A car can kill someone just as easily, why is there not a zero tolerance policy on that?

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Unless you are Vietnam vet I don’t think it was you.

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HankT wrote:

HMDGLOCK wrote:

I dont carry when i have been drinking but i know people that do i was wondering what everybody thinks about it. I also was in a bar the other day and a guy was ocing in the bar and i know he is not a cop and he was drinking. I couldnt believe it. i dont know, i still always keeps my gun i my car.

Click to expand...

Well, let's put it this way: a man who carries a loaded firearm has the power of life or death over others in his space.

This is similar to a surgeon or other health care professional who at times has life or death power over others at particular times.

I think it makes about as much sense for a guy with a loaded gun to be drinking in public as it does for a surgeon or other care-giver to be drinking while they are on the job.

There are about 850,000 sworn law enforcement officers who carry a gun. They have life and death power over others in their space. All of these LEOs are prohibited from drinking on the job.

:idea:There must be a reason for that....

Click to expand...

+1

I don't care who you are or how well you can "Hold you liquor" if you're carrying you have no business drinking. Period. End of story!

Men that I know well, have worked closely with for years........I can tell a difference in their actions & attitudes after only ONE beer. But try to convince a drinker of that :banghead:

Life is too fragile, yours and others. Handle carefully with Wisdom and Discernment

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usafe7ret wrote:

HankT wrote:

HMDGLOCK wrote:

I dont carry when i have been drinking but i know people that do i was wondering what everybody thinks about it. I also was in a bar the other day and a guy was ocing in the bar and i know he is not a cop and he was drinking. I couldnt believe it. i dont know, i still always keeps my gun i my car.

Click to expand...

Well, let's put it this way: a man who carries a loaded firearm has the power of life or death over others in his space.

This is similar to a surgeon or other health care professional who at times has life or death power over others at particular times.

I think it makes about as much sense for a guy with a loaded gun to be drinking in public as it does for a surgeon or other care-giver to be drinking while they are on the job.

There are about 850,000 sworn law enforcement officers who carry a gun. They have life and death power over others in their space. All of these LEOs are prohibited from drinking on the job.

:idea:There must be a reason for that....

Click to expand...

+1

I don't care who you are or how well you can "Hold you liquor" if you're carrying you have no business drinking. Period. End of story!

Men that I know well, have worked closely with for years........I can tell a difference in their actions & attitudes after only ONE beer. But try to convince a drinker of that :banghead:

Life is too fragile, yours and others. Handle carefully with Wisdom and Discernment

Click to expand...

But you do have business driving after you have been drinking...?

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Agree or disagree, if I am going to drink, I don't carry. I don't do my drinking in a bar obviously, but if I am going to a party somewhere, and I know I will drink, or want to drink, I leave the ole .45 at home. If I'm home having a few beers, I will keep it on me... but it's my house, and I know my own limit. Out in public, nobody does and it would make me uncomfortable if I saw someone drinking while packing, so I don't do it.

Just my .02.

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usafe7ret wrote:

HankT wrote:

HMDGLOCK wrote:

I dont carry when i have been drinking but i know people that do i was wondering what everybody thinks about it. I also was in a bar the other day and a guy was ocing in the bar and i know he is not a cop and he was drinking. I couldnt believe it. i dont know, i still always keeps my gun i my car.

Click to expand...

Well, let's put it this way: a man who carries a loaded firearm has the power of life or death over others in his space.

This is similar to a surgeon or other health care professional who at times has life or death power over others at particular times.

I think it makes about as much sense for a guy with a loaded gun to be drinking in public as it does for a surgeon or other care-giver to be drinking while they are on the job.

There are about 850,000 sworn law enforcement officers who carry a gun. They have life and death power over others in their space. All of these LEOs are prohibited from drinking on the job.

:idea:There must be a reason for that....

Click to expand...

+1

I don't care who you are or how well you can "Hold you liquor" if you're carrying you have no business drinking. Period. End of story!

Men that I know well, have worked closely with for years........I can tell a difference in their actions & attitudes after only ONE beer. But try to convince a drinker of that :banghead:

Life is too fragile, yours and others. Handle carefully with Wisdom and Discernment

Click to expand...

Change in actions & attitude /= impaired.
Do you leave your gun at home if you are a little tired? Do you lock up your gun if you need to answer your phone? Fatigue can impair you more than alcohol, and talking on a phone can greatly reduce your situational awareness. Zero tolerance is rarely a good thing. If I can handle a little alcohol without significant impairment, (and I can, whatever you may think), why should I go about unarmed? If I am going out to the bar for the night, my gun stays in my truck. If I am sitting around the house, or stop over at a friends place, there is no reason not to have a beer or two. How is telling me that I shouldn't carry with any alcohol in my system any different than telling me I shouldn't carry for any other reason?

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openryan wrote:

usafe7ret wrote:

HankT wrote:

HMDGLOCK wrote:

I dont carry when i have been drinking but i know people that do i was wondering what everybody thinks about it. I also was in a bar the other day and a guy was ocing in the bar and i know he is not a cop and he was drinking. I couldnt believe it. i dont know, i still always keeps my gun i my car.

Click to expand...

Well, let's put it this way: a man who carries a loaded firearm has the power of life or death over others in his space.

This is similar to a surgeon or other health care professional who at times has life or death power over others at particular times.

I think it makes about as much sense for a guy with a loaded gun to be drinking in public as it does for a surgeon or other care-giver to be drinking while they are on the job.

There are about 850,000 sworn law enforcement officers who carry a gun. They have life and death power over others in their space. All of these LEOs are prohibited from drinking on the job.

:idea:There must be a reason for that....

Click to expand...

+1

I don't care who you are or how well you can "Hold you liquor" if you're carrying you have no business drinking. Period. End of story!

Men that I know well, have worked closely with for years........I can tell a difference in their actions & attitudes after only ONE beer. But try to convince a drinker of that :banghead:

Life is too fragile, yours and others. Handle carefully with Wisdom and Discernment

Click to expand...

But you do have business driving after you have been drinking...?

Click to expand...

NO. Once again....Life is to fragile.........

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FogRider wrote:

usafe7ret wrote:

HankT wrote:

HMDGLOCK wrote:

I dont carry when i have been drinking but i know people that do i was wondering what everybody thinks about it. I also was in a bar the other day and a guy was ocing in the bar and i know he is not a cop and he was drinking. I couldnt believe it. i dont know, i still always keeps my gun i my car.

Click to expand...

Well, let's put it this way: a man who carries a loaded firearm has the power of life or death over others in his space.

This is similar to a surgeon or other health care professional who at times has life or death power over others at particular times.

I think it makes about as much sense for a guy with a loaded gun to be drinking in public as it does for a surgeon or other care-giver to be drinking while they are on the job.

There are about 850,000 sworn law enforcement officers who carry a gun. They have life and death power over others in their space. All of these LEOs are prohibited from drinking on the job.

:idea:There must be a reason for that....

Click to expand...

+1

I don't care who you are or how well you can "Hold you liquor" if you're carrying you have no business drinking. Period. End of story!

Men that I know well, have worked closely with for years........I can tell a difference in their actions & attitudes after only ONE beer. But try to convince a drinker of that :banghead:

Life is too fragile, yours and others. Handle carefully with Wisdom and Discernment

Click to expand...

Change in actions & attitude /= impaired.
Do you leave your gun at home if you are a little tired? Do you lock up your gun if you need to answer your phone? Fatigue can impair you more than alcohol, and talking on a phone can greatly reduce your situational awareness. Zero tolerance is rarely a good thing. If I can handle a little alcohol without significant impairment, (and I can, whatever you may think), why should I go about unarmed? If I am going out to the bar for the night, my gun stays in my truck. If I am sitting around the house, or stop over at a friends place, there is no reason not to have a beer or two. How is telling me that I shouldn't carry with any alcohol in my system any different than telling me I shouldn't carry for any other reason?

Click to expand...

Well put!

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I am concerned that so many people here think that drinking a beer takes away your right of self defense.

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FogRider wrote:

usafe7ret wrote:

HankT wrote:

HMDGLOCK wrote:

I dont carry when i have been drinking but i know people that do i was wondering what everybody thinks about it. I also was in a bar the other day and a guy was ocing in the bar and i know he is not a cop and he was drinking. I couldnt believe it. i dont know, i still always keeps my gun i my car.

Click to expand...

Well, let's put it this way: a man who carries a loaded firearm has the power of life or death over others in his space.

This is similar to a surgeon or other health care professional who at times has life or death power over others at particular times.

I think it makes about as much sense for a guy with a loaded gun to be drinking in public as it does for a surgeon or other care-giver to be drinking while they are on the job.

There are about 850,000 sworn law enforcement officers who carry a gun. They have life and death power over others in their space. All of these LEOs are prohibited from drinking on the job.

:idea:There must be a reason for that....

Click to expand...

+1

I don't care who you are or how well you can "Hold you liquor" if you're carrying you have no business drinking. Period. End of story!

Men that I know well, have worked closely with for years........I can tell a difference in their actions & attitudes after only ONE beer. But try to convince a drinker of that :banghead:

Life is too fragile, yours and others. Handle carefully with Wisdom and Discernment

Click to expand...

Change in actions & attitude /= impaired.
Do you leave your gun at home if you are a little tired? Do you lock up your gun if you need to answer your phone? Fatigue can impair you more than alcohol, and talking on a phone can greatly reduce your situational awareness. Zero tolerance is rarely a good thing. If I can handle a little alcohol without significant impairment, (and I can, whatever you may think), why should I go about unarmed? If I am going out to the bar for the night, my gun stays in my truck. If I am sitting around the house, or stop over at a friends place, there is no reason not to have a beer or two. How is telling me that I shouldn't carry with any alcohol in my system any different than telling me I shouldn't carry for any other reason?

Click to expand...

Yes, there are many things in this life that distract us from the level of awareness that we would like to maintan. I was encouraged to see you state that: "Zero tolerance is rarely a good thing". So we can agree that there is a time for zero tolerance.......a decision that we each must make and live with.

As for fatigue impairing more than alcohol .... a little of each would seem to have the same effect or a lot of each the same would it not? And my statement still stands.. there are changes in attitudes and actions

However, I would humbly submit that we do not always have the choice not to be fatigued, but we always make the choice to impair ourselves with alcohol no matter how significant that impairment might be.

Am I bashing you? That is not my desire, just attempting to present a fact (that I feel strongly about), but perhaps not in the best way. My wife lived with an alcoholic father, I spent 24yrs in the AF with a lot of drinkers. Am I an expert? No .......just presenting what I have seen.

We can just agree to disagree.

Thank you for the discussion. It helps me clarify my thoughts, and my mind needs all the exercise it can get!

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usafe7ret wrote:

FogRider wrote:

Change in actions & attitude /= impaired.
Do you leave your gun at home if you are a little tired? Do you lock up your gun if you need to answer your phone? Fatigue can impair you more than alcohol, and talking on a phone can greatly reduce your situational awareness. Zero tolerance is rarely a good thing. If I can handle a little alcohol without significant impairment, (and I can, whatever you may think), why should I go about unarmed? If I am going out to the bar for the night, my gun stays in my truck. If I am sitting around the house, or stop over at a friends place, there is no reason not to have a beer or two. How is telling me that I shouldn't carry with any alcohol in my system any different than telling me I shouldn't carry for any other reason?

Click to expand...

Yes, there are many things in this life that distract us from the level of awareness that we would like to maintan. I was encouraged to see you state that: "Zero tolerance is rarely a good thing". So we can agree that there is a time for zero tolerance.......a decision that we each must make and live with.

As for fatigue impairing more than alcohol .... a little of each would seem to have the same effect or a lot of each the same would it not? And my statement still stands.. there are changes in attitudes and actions

However, I would humbly submit that we do not always have the choice not to be fatigued, but we always make the choice to impair ourselves with alcohol no matter how significant that impairment might be.

Am I bashing you? That is not my desire, just attempting to present a fact (that I feel strongly about), but perhaps not in the best way. My wife lived with an alcoholic father, I spent 24yrs in the AF with a lot of drinkers. Am I an expert? No .......just presenting what I have seen.

We can just agree to disagree.

Thank you for the discussion. It helps me clarify my thoughts, and my mind needs all the exercise it can get!

Click to expand...

I am well aware you are not trying to bash me, and rest assured I did not take it that way. No one is saying that drinking enough to be significantly impaired is good, only that small amounts of alcohol are not enough to impair your judgment/abilities to the point you should not be carrying. No, you can't necessarily control fatigue, my point was nobody demands that I leave my gun at home if I don't sleep well. Should I be disarmed if I am sleepy? And who decides when lack of sleep has impaired me? Personal responsibility goes a long way here. You say you know people who drink to much and imply the shouldn't be armed. What would you say if I told you I know someone who functions better with alcohol? A friend of mine has had some major problems in his life, and unfortunately turned to drink. The reasons for his drinking is none of my business, and doesn't matter here. My point is, he has a beer in his hand any time he is not working. But when it comes to firearms he is one of the most responsible people I know. Hell, his aim improves with a few beers. But he also knows that when he realy starts hitting the booze it is time to not pick up a firearm.

My long rambling point is that it should be up to the individual to decide how much alcohol they can responsibly handle. And yes, it is possible to make that decision.

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I do not carry while I drink, but i never feel safe. Last year I was leaving a bar in Hammond by myself when 3 young men approached me an said "what are you claiming" which means what gang am I. First let me tell you that I look nothing like a gang member I am a 230 pound, white, breaded, college student. After there comment I responded with "Get the **** out of here with that Bullshit.' I am a hard headed type of guy butbecause of my comment one of the young men pulled little silver pistol and put it up to my head. When this happened I said something along the lines of put the gun away man im not a gang member. He put the gun away and walked away as if nothing happened. I was pretty shocked because i have seen stuff like this happen before but i was never involved in it. I got in my car and drove away never thought about calling the police. But that is the reason i bought my Glock 19 and got my LTC. But thething that scares me is what if something like this happens again and i have been drinking so i do not have my gun on me. What if that kid if this ever happens again pulls that trigger. That scares me. What if I dont have time to get to my car or someone pulls one out in the bar. I can not defend myself. Even though I do not have that bad of a temper but i dont know if I trust myself to carry a loaded weapon while drinking. But I always have a fear in the back of my mind that something bad could happen to me or my friends and I cannot protect us. I love to drink with friends but it makes me want to be the DD every night so we can be safe and have fun with no worries.

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HMDGLOCK wrote:

I do not carry while I drink, but i never feel safe. Last year I was leaving a bar in Hammond by myself when 3 young men approached me an said "what are you claiming" which means what gang am I. First let me tell you that I look nothing like a gang member I am a 230 pound, white, breaded, college student. After there comment I responded with "Get the **** out of here with that Bullshit.' I am a hard headed type of guy butbecause of my comment one of the young men pulled little silver pistol and put it up to my head. When this happened I said something along the lines of put the gun away man im not a gang member. He put the gun away and walked away as if nothing happened. I was pretty shocked because i have seen stuff like this happen before but i was never involved in it. I got in my car and drove away never thought about calling the police. But that is the reason i bought my Glock 19 and got my LTC. But thething that scares me is what if something like this happens again and i have been drinking so i do not have my gun on me. What if that kid if this ever happens again pulls that trigger. That scares me. What if I dont have time to get to my car or someone pulls one out in the bar. I can not defend myself. Even though I do not have that bad of a temper but i dont know if I trust myself to carry a loaded weapon while drinking. But I always have a fear in the back of my mind that something bad could happen to me or my friends and I cannot protect us. I love to drink with friends but it makes me want to be the DD every night so we can be safe and have fun with no worries.

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You are very lucky you weren't shot, if this is what truly happened.

If you aren't going to pack, I wouldn't suggest going to bars in the hammond area, hammond does have its nicer areas as well, but on the whole, I would stay away from those places in the evening, even if I was armed, I wouldn't want to be there.

If you still don't carry when you drink after that event, well, I don't know what you are thinking. If you go out knowing you are going to get tanked, yes, leave it in the car. But if you are going in to watch a game and have a brew with some friends, you may want to take it with you...

However if you know your temper flares when you drink, then discretion is a must.

I just can't believe thats how it really went down. I don't see you getting away from 3 dudes, saying that, without at least eating some asphalt. You got very lucky, those type of people in Hammond don't play games.

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If you are trying to say that I am abull shitter, believe meI am not. I grew up in Hammond, I went to Hammond schools, I plan on staying in Hammond, I also plan on being a cop in Hammond. One thing I did learn growing up here is never act scared. When those kids came up to me, I would have no problem fighting them and believe me I would have gave them one hell of a fight. That’s the reason the kid pulled the gun because he was scared becausethat a white guy actually stood up for himself. I seen more things in my lifethen youprobably would believe. But to say you should stay out of those area’s I grew up in would make me coward. A coward is something I am not. I would never let THOSE PEOPLE push me out of the place grew up in and love. That’s the reason areas in NWI is getting so bad because once a white person sees a Mexican or black move onto there block it OMG we got to move. That’s not me or my family. I will be safe but not scared

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ijusam wrote:

I am concerned that so many people here think that drinking a beer takes away your right of self defense.

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You aren't the only one.

In all honesty if someone is going out and drinking so much as to not be able to safely carry a firearm, they shouldn't be out. Back when I was +- 21 I would drink a bit more than a I should have out at a club or bar quite often... that was stupid, but atleast I only did it with several friends. The risks of being that impared in public are to great (robberies, muggings ect. ect.). By the time I was 22 I'd only drink 'alot' at private parties/homes where I knew everyone. I call it being responsible. Besides those of us who carry in urban areas realize what kind of a war zone it really it.. especially in cities where it's a magnificent mile on this street and 1 block over it's beruit. Criminals don't respect their gehettos border.

As to having a couple of drinks and carrying, I wouldn't do it any other way. When I would go out with my fiancee/wife in south FLA things were getting pretty rough. I can't imagine walking out to the parking lots unarmed. We've been busy having kids for the past few years and never really 'partied' up here. Places like woodhollow, curve or can't rmemeber the other place occasionally were it. Pepperjacks for drinks with friends and not that I ever felt I'd need something there, but better safe than sorry... I've never partied in Hammond although I do technically live in south hammond (walking distance from cabelas).

It's time to stop blaming drugs, alcohol, abuse, lack of sleep or a bad hair day for peoples actions.

If someone screws up, punish them for the screw up... not because they *might at some point, eventually, possibly, maybe, could, if the stars aligned just right* do xyz.

The only zero tollerance we should have is basically for murder and rape. Real crimes with real victims.

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I should probably note it's always been concealed. I've never OC'ed in a bar.