Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 31

Thread: Do you know self-defense?

  1. #1
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    Some good basics here. It's far from perfect, but it acknowledges yet doesn't diss the gun alternative. That's progress, I think.





    Do you know self-defense?
    From carrying a weapon to walking with a friend, you canminimize risk of being attacked. Learn skills to defend yourself, too

    By Erin Crawford
    Published: October 29, 2007


    Random attacks fill the news and while street attacks account for about 15 percent of reported sexual assaults nationwide, according to Karla Miller, executive director of the Rape Victim Advocacy Program in Iowa City, Iowa, hearing about them makes many think twice about safety.

    "You learn to read and write. You need to learn how to protect yourself; I see it as a life skill," says self-defense instructor Laurel Farrell.

    But even achieving a black belt in martial arts doesn't provide absolute protection.

    "If you have several things to try, you reduce your risk," says Miller. Her organization runs the state's sexual assault crisis line. It's important to note that even the best self-defense only minimizes risk. Here are skills the experts say could help:

    Self-defense training
    Ideally, women would pursue more than a single defense seminar.

    "The best training out there is long-term martial arts training combined with padded assailant training," Farrell says.

    "Ideally," adds Miller, "people could train up to a point where they're in great physical shape, but that's not practical." Instead, people should learn a few simple maneuvers, or better yet, a series of maneuvers.

    "You don't want to disable them and not have a plan," Miller says.

    After breaking an assailant's hold, you don't want to have to stop and think about what to do next. The goal is to be able to disable an attacker and flee.

    "The skills I teach are very basic escapes and strikes built off muscle movements like throwing a ball or turning a key in the ignition," says Farrell, who teaches self-defense courses.

    The problem with learning an aggressive movement, like an eye gouge, is that a victim might hesitate to use it.

    "If you get a shot at his eye, you don't want to be saying, 'Oh, that's gross,' " Miller says. "And once it's a physical confrontation, the risk goes up, so you try to avoid that. So whatever sort of maneuver a woman wants to be able to use, she should be comfortable with and ready to use.

    If she decides that's full-on, long-term self-defense training, do the research, Farrell says.

    "If you're investing in a longer training, talk to someone who's been through it, find out what sort of training they've had," she says.

    Avoidance
    At her training sessions, Farrell tells women a sexual assault has three stages.

    In the first stage, the target is selected. Women can learn to cut the risk of being chosen.

    Predators look for a target that is alone and distracted, perhaps listening to music on ear buds or talking on a cell phone, Miller says.

    "You need to be able to be aware so that if someone comes within 10 or 20 feet, you're aware of it," she says.

    Provocative clothing is another risk factor, as are shoes that would slow you from fleeing, Farrell says.

    Inebriation also makes people easier targets. If you're planning an evening out, perhaps decide in advance to crash at a friend's place, Farrell suggests.

    Look like you know where you're going.

    "Walking confidently and knowing where safety is - houses that have lights on and businesses," Miller says.

    Be aware of your surroundings, Farrell says. Scan the people around you and see what they're doing. Then walk purposefully to your destination.

    Carry an alarm
    A whistle can help alert others to an attack.

    However, personal alarms often sound like car alarms, says Tanya Zaglauer, a West Des Moines police officer.

    "A lot of us don't even pay attention to it, so that's maybe not the best choice," she says.

    Both devices are problematic, if you need to dig around the bottom of your purse to get them out.

    The best instrument is one that's readily available.

    "Your voice is your No. 1 tool," she says. "If I'm screaming or yelling, it may get someone to come on over and find out what's going on."

    Weapons
    "The trouble with any kind of weapon is that an assault is going to happen in two to three seconds and it will take five to 10 seconds to access a weapon," Farrell says. "The reality is, there probably isn't time."

    But if you're interested in carrying pepper spray or a gun, get trained, Farrell says.

    "Don't just buy a gun, put it in your purse and feel you're safer."

    The same goes for pepper spray.

    "If you do use pepper spray, you need to know how to use it and test it and shoot it off," Miller says. "And if you pull it out, use it. You can't just threaten."

    It's always helpful to be a community watchdog.

    "If you see a guy homing in on someone," Miller says, "call the police and walk over there before anything happens."

    http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs...710290330/1004



  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193

    Post imported post

    self-defense instructor Laurel Farrell loses all credibility re guns:
    "The trouble with any kind of weapon is that an assault is going to happen in two to three seconds and it will take five to 10 seconds to access a weapon," Farrell says. "The reality is, there probably isn't time."
    Our Right to freedom of association is the first tool of self-defense; shun who you will and do not associate with unsavory strangers, strangers that are unsavory in word or deed.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP *******

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Catasauqua, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    3,047

    Post imported post

    Doug Huffman wrote:
    self-defense instructor Laurel Farrell loses all credibility re guns:
    "The trouble with any kind of weapon is that an assault is going to happen in two to three seconds and it will take five to 10 seconds to access a weapon," Farrell says. "The reality is, there probably isn't time."
    Our Right to freedom of association is the first tool of self-defense; shun who you will and do not associate with unsavory strangers, strangers that are unsavory in word or deed.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP *******
    And I guess she's assuming that no one is anti-social enough to openly carry a weapon... I'm fairly sure that it takes me less than a second to draw and aim my Ruger Redhawk when it's on a hip holster.

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    275

    Post imported post

    I don't even think it's possible to time a good draw from a 3:00 riding holster, it's just way too fast.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    , , USA
    Posts
    251

    Post imported post

    Doug Huffman wrote:
    self-defense instructor Laurel Farrell loses all credibility re guns:
    "The trouble with any kind of weapon is that an assault is going to happen in two to three seconds and it will take five to 10 seconds to access a weapon," Farrell says. "The reality is, there probably isn't time."
    Our Right to freedom of association is the first tool of self-defense; shun who you will and do not associate with unsavory strangers, strangers that are unsavory in word or deed.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP *******
    This person is a self defense instructor? hahahahahahahaha.

    I would be willing to bet 50 bucks that 95% of the members on this board can draw from an OC holster in under 1 second and a CC holster in 2 seconds or less.

    And I really have no idea where she's getting her "an assault is going to happen in 2-3 seconds". Does she mean from initial contact to them having complete control over you? She has to. She can't possibly mean from the point you identify the threat to the point they would have control over you. If that's the case then there is something seriously wrong elsewhere in your self defense preparation.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona, U.S.
    Posts
    625

    Post imported post

    Avoidance
    At her training sessions, Farrell tells women a sexual assault has three stages.

    In the first stage, the target is selected. Women can learn to cut the risk of being chosen.

    Predators look for a target that is alone and distracted, perhaps listening to music on ear buds or talking on a cell phone, Miller says.

    "You need to be able to be aware so that if someone comes within 10 or 20 feet, you're aware of it," she says.
    I would say this is the foundation of self-defense. An attacker wants an easy target so when forced to choose between someone in condition yellow vs. condition white, they will most likely choose the latter. If they do choose the former, at least this person is well aware of their presence before the attack happens and can move to condition orange making the outcome of the attack look less good for the attacker.

    With or without a gun, can of pepperspray, knife, or other weapon, your brain is your best tool of defense and must be used first in order for any weapons to be effective, if even needed at all. Trying to stay away from problems is the best method. I have seen how people could easily avoid a problem but choose to escalate it. For instance, if you are walking down the street and someone in a truck yells something at you, instead of them ignoring them they will yell back causing the truck to turn around and cause a situation to get worse. People should not let ego get in the way of common sense.
    Carry an alarm
    A whistle can help alert others to an attack.


    I don't agree with that at all. The general public is stupid. Ten men could be stabbing you to death while someone is ten feet away listening to their iPod totally unaware. Self-defense should never depend on relying on others to protect you unless you are in condition black (ongoing combat). That would be like if you had to work as a team to ensure that everyone survived a serious encounter (such as kids evacuating from a school shooting). But in all other conditions, relying on others for your protection reduces your ability to defend yourself. Honestly if someone is attacking you, you don't have time to blow a whistle or call the police. It amazes me how poor people's street smarts are and especially when so-called self-defense educators also teach bad street smarts. Most people if asked what they would do if someone broke into their home would say "Call 911." If attacked, you will likely not have time nor the ability to summon outside help. You must either flee or fight.

    Weapons
    "The trouble with any kind of weapon is that an assault is going to happen in two to three seconds and it will take five to 10 seconds to access a weapon," Farrell says. "The reality is, there probably isn't time."


    Something I also disagree with. This is another example of the poor street-smarts that people have. Women will go buy a can of pepperspray or even a gun but then stick it inside their purse where it won't be accessible if they need it. The entire purpose of having a weapon on your person is so that you can quickly get to it if needed. If it is buried in a bag, purse, or not readily available, not only won't it help you but the attacker will get it from you and use it on you. I personally believe that if you are carrying any self-defense product, you should be able to pull it and use it in less than three seconds. If it takes longer than three seconds, you should not even bother having it around. The advantage of open carry is that you can pull and fire the gun in less than a second.

    Also, if the victim is in condition yellow to begin with they should probably already be aware of a potential attack brewing before it happens. This "expert" apparently assumes that the victim is unaware and gets snuck up on. In that case, only God and last-minute adrenaline can help you.

    I get real tired of hearing bogus self-defense advice such as carry a whistle or be ready to call 911. The only self-defense advice that makes sense to me is to be aware of your surroundings at all times, avoid unnecessary situations, carry a gun, and know how to pull it and use it if needed.



  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Arizona, U.S.
    Posts
    625

    Post imported post

    And I really have no idea where she's getting her "an assault is going to happen in 2-3 seconds". Does she mean from initial contact to them having complete control over you? She has to. She can't possibly mean from the point you identify the threat to the point they would have control over you. If that's the case then there is something seriously wrong elsewhere in your self defense preparation.
    It should be the rare exception that you are caught off-guard by an attacker if you are always in condition yellow. The reason it can happen is because even in a relaxed alert condition, you cannot see everything at all times. However, 99% of the time you are aware enough that you don't give an attacker enough of a chance to sneak up on you. Unfortunately, I have experienced that rare exception as mentioned in the bar fight thread where you can simply open the door and in less than one second something happens and there wouldn't have been any way to even prepare for it no matter how good you are. But again 99% of the time, these attacks shouldn't happen in "2-3 seconds" because you should be aware of the problem brewing before it even gets to you.

    I know the feminists and bleeding hearts don't want to hear this but probably most female victims attacked, raped, etc. are not exhibiting any street smarts whatsoever. I've come across so many women that leave doors unlocked at night, windows open, stroll down the street distracted by their cell phone, etc. They will do stupid stuff that I won't even do while armed. A criminal is just not likely to attack someone who has clearly demonstrated that they are aware and prepared.



  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Arlington, Washington, USA
    Posts
    374

    Post imported post

    protector84 wrote:
    I don't agree with that at all. The general public is stupid. Ten men could be stabbing you to death while someone is ten feet away listening to their iPod totally unaware. Self-defense should never depend on relying on others to protect you unless you are in condition black (ongoing combat). That would be like if you had to work as a team to ensure that everyone survived a serious encounter (such as kids evacuating from a school shooting). But in all other conditions, relying on others for your protection reduces your ability to defend yourself. Honestly if someone is attacking you, you don't have time to blow a whistle or call the police. It amazes me how poor people's street smarts are and especially when so-called self-defense educators also teach bad street smarts. Most people if asked what they would do if someone broke into their home would say "Call 911." If attacked, you will likely not have time nor the ability to summon outside help. You must either flee or fight.


    +1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW3mSfN8arc

    Check out the gathering of guys just 15 feet away.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,882

    Post imported post

    I'm reminded of my father telling me of his training in boot camp for WWII. The DI asked what do you do if you are unarmed and an armed assailant accosts you. There was always some know-it-all who would say to use some martial art or other. The volunteer would invariably be humiliated by the DI in a mock assault/demonstration. The DI then said NOT to try any such thing but to run away, without hesitation, if the person was attacking you with anything less than a gun. If the other guy does have a gun and you are unarmed, you have to hope that they don't just kill you right out, and try to effect an escape as soon as possible if they don't shoot you.

    Above all, keep cool and use your head - ultimately your only and best weapon. The steel is just a tool. I escaped an armed carjacker by jumping out of my own car while it was moving. I cut up my leg pretty good, but I reasoned it was better than a slug in the skull. I walked (limped) away and the guy got caught - after trashing my car trying to evade the cops.

    -ljp

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Centennial, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,412

    Post imported post

    nofoa wrote:
    +1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW3mSfN8arc

    Check out the gathering of guys just 15 feet away.
    Looks an awful lot like the event I witnessed last night. Three bums beating the crap out of each other on a sidewalk, and everyone else just driving or walking past. I called the cops, but they didn't arrive until the fight broke up and the guys wandered off.
    It really pointed out the reason I do not rely on the police. The 911 operator said she received one other call about the incident, and I watched it for a good five minutes. If that had been me, I would have been on the ground bleeding, sans wallet, the guys would have been gone, and two minutes later the police would have arrived. Not that it is their fault, they can only respond so fast. But the only thing they could have done to protect me would be to clean up the mess.

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Morgan, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,580

    Post imported post

    FogRider wrote:
    nofoa wrote:
    +1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW3mSfN8arc

    Check out the gathering of guys just 15 feet away.
    Looks an awful lot like the event I witnessed last night. Three bums beating the crap out of each other on a sidewalk, and everyone else just driving or walking past. I called the cops, but they didn't arrive until the fight broke up and the guys wandered off.
    It really pointed out the reason I do not rely on the police. The 911 operator said she received one other call about the incident, and I watched it for a good five minutes. If that had been me, I would have been on the ground bleeding, sans wallet, the guys would have been gone, and two minutes later the police would have arrived. Not that it is their fault, they can only respond so fast. But the only thing they could have done to protect me would be to clean up the mess.

    The Police didn't even have too show up cuz he was only 1 !!! Individual and not The General Public (2+). Take a look at the info attached and you will see why I Carry and Encourage everybody else to do so






    POLICE HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT THE INDIVIDUAL (NOR SHOULD THEY)‏


    http://publicrights.org/Kennesaw/PoliceResponsibility.html







    Press Release:
    Coming in October 2005 “2nd Amendment News” with Neal Seaman. By all accounts 2004 was a successful year for defenders of the Second Amendment. The march of the concealed carry movement continues. Neal will keep us abreast of breaking news and views regarding our deliberate right “To Keep and bear Arms”. Neal will inform us on all State and Federal Legislation…without the twist!!
    Saturday on News- 11:00 Hrs.- Talk Radio WIS-AM 1320
    call in with your questions or concerns: Tel: 803-695-7056




    POLICE HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT THE INDIVIDUAL (NOR SHOULD THEY)
    "Dial 911 and Die"

    Email NealSeaman or Call 843-716-0511





    Police have no legal duty to respond and prevent crime or protect the victim. There have BEEN OVER 10 various supreme and state court cases the individual has never won. Notably, the Supreme Court STATED about the responsibility of police for the security of your family and loved ones is "You, and only you, are responsible for your security and the security of your family and loved ones. That was the essence of a U.S. Supreme Court decision in the early 1980's when they ruled that the police do not have a duty to protect you as an individual, but to protect society as a whole."
    "It is well-settled fact of American law that the police have no legal duty to protect any individual citizen from crime, even if the citizen has received death threats and the police have negligently failed to provide protection."

    Sources:
    7/15/05 SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES No. 04-278 TOWN OF CASTLE ROCK, COLORADO, PETITIONER v. JESSICA GONZALES, INDIVIDUALLY AND AS NEXT BEST FRIEND OF HER DECEASED MINOR CHILDREN, REBECCA GONZALES, KATHERYN GONZALES, AND LESLIE GONZALES
    On June 27, in the case of Castle Rock v. Gonzales, the Supreme Court found that Jessica Gonzales did not have a constitutional right to individual police protection even in the presence of a restraining order. Mrs. Gonzales' husband with a track record of violence, stabbing Mrs. Gonzales to death, Mrs. Gonzales' family could not get the Supreme Court to change their unanimous decision for one's individual protection. YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN FOLKS AND GOVERNMENT BODIES ARE REFUSING TO PASS THE Safety Ordinance.
    (1) Richard W. Stevens. 1999. Dial 911 and Die. Hartford, Wisconsin: Mazel Freedom Press.
    (2) Barillari v. City of Milwaukee, 533 N.W.2d 759 (Wis. 1995).
    (3) Bowers v. DeVito, 686 F.2d 616 (7th Cir. 1982).
    (4) DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services, 489 U.S. 189 (1989).
    (5) Ford v. Town of Grafton, 693 N.E.2d 1047 (Mass. App. 1998).
    (6) Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. 1981).
    "...a government and its agencies are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen..." -Warren v. District of Columbia, 444 A.2d 1 (D.C. App. 1981)

    (7) "What makes the City's position particularly difficult to understand is that, in conformity to the dictates of the law, Linda did not carry any weapon for self-defense. Thus by a rather bitter irony she was required to rely for protection on the City of NY which now denies all responsibility to her."
    Riss v. New York, 22 N.Y.2d 579,293 N.Y.S.2d 897, 240 N.E.2d 806 (1958).

    (8) "Law enforcement agencies and personnel have no duty to protect individuals from the criminal acts of others; instead their duty is to preserve the peace and arrest law breakers for the protection of the general public."
    Lynch v. N.C. Dept. of Justice, 376 S.E. 2nd 247 (N.C. App. 1989)

    New York Times, Washington DC
    Justices Rule Police Do Not Have a Constitutional Duty to Protect Someone By LINDA GREENHOUSE Published: June 28, 2005
    The ruling applies even for a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Centennial, Colorado, USA
    Posts
    1,412

    Post imported post

    I know they have no legal obligation to respond, but I honestly believe that most will, and at the most take their time responding (I said MOST will, obviously some will not, hence the court cases). And, they did respond, as I saw the cruiser roll by with no lights on (no headlights at night, they were definitely looking for someone) as I was pulling away. If I had had a good place to pull over and stop I would have, to show them where the guys went.

  13. #13
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193

    Post imported post

    I am very pleased to see mention of Neal Seaman. Are you familiar with him/his work?

    I enjoy 'my three doctors' of pro-gun advocacy, Rob Butler, JD; Ben Davis, EED and Neal Seaman, Doctor of Citizenship.

    IIRC, his SO 'Skypod' was one of the first newslinks editors at keepandbeararms.com.

    UTOC-45-44 wrote:

    Coming in October 2005 “2nd Amendment News” with Neal Seaman. By all accounts 2004 was a successful year for defenders of the Second Amendment. The march of the concealed carry movement continues. Neal will keep us abreast of breaking news and views regarding our deliberate right “To Keep and bear Arms”. Neal will inform us on all State and Federal Legislation…without the twist!!
    Saturday on News- 11:00 Hrs.- Talk Radio WIS-AM 1320
    call in with your questions or concerns: Tel: 803-695-7056
    "Dial 911 and Die"
    Email NealSeaman or Call 843-716-0511

  14. #14
    Regular Member MetalChris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    SW Ohio
    Posts
    1,215

    Post imported post

    FogRider wrote:
    Looks an awful lot like the event I witnessed last night. Three bums beating the crap out of each other on a sidewalk, and everyone else just driving or walking past....
    Not really the same, IMO...the old guy wasn't some worthless bum, but a real person. :P If I saw some homeless people fighting I wouldn't interfere, but I'd like to think if I witnessed what happened in the video I'd intervene in some way or another...

  15. #15
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,627

    Post imported post

    USAF_MetalChris wrote:
    Not really the same, IMO...the old guy wasn't some worthless bum, but a real person. :P If I saw some homeless people fighting I wouldn't interfere, but I'd like to think if I witnessed what happened in the video I'd intervene in some way or another...
    The value of a human life does not diminish according to one's economic or social status.

    Is it not the American way to come to the aid of the down trodden, the old, the lame, the infirm? Would you really witness a crime between persons of "lesser status" and do nothing?

    Thank you for your service. Please give your comments some more thought.
    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  16. #16
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193

    Post imported post

    Grapeshot wrote:
    The value of a human life does not diminish according to one's economic or social status.
    I disagree. Please give your comments some more thought.

    The value of human life starts out low to insignificant and only builds through intelligent application of human abilities.

    I started to relate a 'hypothetical' from an ethics class but - yata hey - it's Off Topic.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP *******

  17. #17
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,627

    Post imported post

    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    The value of a human life does not diminish according to one's economic or social status.
    I disagree. Please give your comments some more thought.

    The value of human life starts out low to insignificant and only builds through intelligent application of human abilities.

    I started to relate a 'hypothetical' from an ethics class but - yata hey - it's Off Topic.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP *******
    :what:
    ???????? Your explanation please.
    According to this a baby's life would insignificent!
    Either we are equal or not you say - it would appear that we are not according to the above.

    Never mind - I don't think I want your explanation. Other's might though.
    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Morgan, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,580

    Post imported post

    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    The value of a human life does not diminish according to one's economic or social status.
    I disagree. Please give your comments some more thought.

    The value of human life starts out low to insignificant and only builds through intelligent application of human abilities.

    I started to relate a 'hypothetical' from an ethics class but - yata hey - it's Off Topic.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP *******
    Doug...

    You worry me when you say that we are NOT of equal worth.

    ="The value of human life starts out low to insignificant and only builds through intelligent application of human abilities.="

    I think I read somewhere the following..."We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

    Oh, YES. The Declaration of Independence...THAT's it.


    Doug...LEAVE YOUR GUNS AT HOME. Who knows YOUmight one day start shooting Everybody around you cuz you "think" that they are NOT Equal to you.

    YOU are NOT an AMERICAN when you use this kind of thinking. I'm ashamed of you.

    Some People and their kids...

  19. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin, USA
    Posts
    9,193

    Post imported post

    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    Doug...

    You worry me when you say that we are NOT of equal worth.

    ="The value of human life starts out low to insignificant and only builds through intelligent application of human abilities.="

    I think I read somewhere the following..."We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

    Oh, YES. The Declaration of Independence...THAT's it.


    Doug...LEAVE YOUR GUNS AT HOME. Who knows YOUmight one day start shooting Everybody around you cuz you "think" that they are NOT Equal to you.

    YOU are NOT an AMERICAN when you use this kind of thinking. I'm ashamed of you.

    Some People and their kids...
    Precisely. You merely expanded on what I said with
    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
    We are created equal only. What our value is after that is quite up to the individual. Equality of outcome is for what the egalitarians pray, affirmative action.

    Contrarywise; you have never heard the aphorism 'play to your strengths'? When our correspondents ignore their failings then I wonder, do they think that they are beyond criticism?

    An interesting thread would be 'in how many ways are we unequal'. Anony Mouse could start with all of the eXtreme Close Quarters Battle training he has had and how that especially qualifies his opinion. Does LEO666 think that we are equal, or that 'it's a dirty job, somebody's got to do it' and he deserves something for his altruism?

    The only value in opinion is from the provenance (the intermediate pieces of data utilized to compute a final data element) and its exposition.

    I am not an egalitarian nor libertarian. And I don't depend on the approval of others for my well being or for my self-esteem - others do not determine my Americanism.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP *******

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Morgan, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,580

    Post imported post

    Doug Huffman wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    Doug...

    You worry me when you say that we are NOT of equal worth.

    ="The value of human life starts out low to insignificant and only builds through intelligent application of human abilities.="

    I think I read somewhere the following..."We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

    Oh, YES. The Declaration of Independence...THAT's it.


    Doug...LEAVE YOUR GUNS AT HOME. Who knows YOUmight one day start shooting Everybody around you cuz you "think" that they are NOT Equal to you.

    YOU are NOT an AMERICAN when you use this kind of thinking. I'm ashamed of you.

    Some People and their kids...
    Precisely. You merely expanded on what I said with
    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
    We are created equal only. What our value is after that is quite up to the individual. Equality of outcome is for what the egalitarians pray, affirmative action.

    Contrarywise; you have never heard the aphorism 'play to your strengths'? When our correspondents ignore their failings then I wonder, do they think that they are beyond criticism?

    An interesting thread would be 'in how many ways are we unequal'. Anony Mouse could start with all of the eXtreme Close Quarters Battle training he has had and how that especially qualifies his opinion. Does LEO666 think that we are equal, or that 'it's a dirty job, somebody's got to do it' and he deserves something for his altruism?

    The only value in opinion is from the provenance (the intermediate pieces of data utilized to compute a final data element) and its exposition.

    I am not an egalitarian nor libertarian. And I don't depend on the approval of others for my well being or for my self-esteem - others do not determine my Americanism.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP *******


  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Morgan, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,580

    Post imported post

    Doug Huffman wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    Doug...

    You worry me when you say that we are NOT of equal worth.

    ="The value of human life starts out low to insignificant and only builds through intelligent application of human abilities.="

    I think I read somewhere the following..."We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

    Oh, YES. The Declaration of Independence...THAT's it.


    Doug...LEAVE YOUR GUNS AT HOME. Who knows YOUmight one day start shooting Everybody around you cuz you "think" that they are NOT Equal to you.

    YOU are NOT an AMERICAN when you use this kind of thinking. I'm ashamed of you.

    Some People and their kids...
    Precisely. You merely expanded on what I said with
    "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
    We are created equal only. What our value is after that is quite up to the individual. Equality of outcome is for what the egalitarians pray, affirmative action.

    Contrarywise; you have never heard the aphorism 'play to your strengths'? When our correspondents ignore their failings then I wonder, do they think that they are beyond criticism?

    An interesting thread would be 'in how many ways are we unequal'. Anony Mouse could start with all of the eXtreme Close Quarters Battle training he has had and how that especially qualifies his opinion. Does LEO666 think that we are equal, or that 'it's a dirty job, somebody's got to do it' and he deserves something for his altruism?

    The only value in opinion is from the provenance (the intermediate pieces of data utilized to compute a final data element) and its exposition.

    I am not an egalitarian nor libertarian. And I don't depend on the approval of others for my well being or for my self-esteem - others do not determine my Americanism.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Morgan, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,580

    Post imported post



  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Morgan, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,580

    Post imported post

    So to YOU Doug...value is = to the $$$ you have and/orthe Brain ( intellligence ) you have.

    THIS is a SCARY thought. Sounds to me like from what I have read that this is...hrm...socialism...communism...maybe.


    "Well sir/ma'm, How much do you earn per year ??? Do you have a PhD ??? Oh...you DON'T make $1000.000 a year ??? You DON'T have a PhD ??? Oh I'm SOOooo Sorry that I CANNOT help you cause you are NOT rich enough or smart enough. Meaning you are NOT valueable enough in my eyes so according to me Doug, youDON'T deserve to be Protected. Yea, yea I CAN see that these Guys are Beatin' the Hell out of you/ raping you but YOUDON'T qualify on my list as "VALUEBLE". Have a nice day"


  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    , , USA
    Posts
    1,436

    Post imported post

    HankT wrote:
    Do you know self-defense?
    Better Question;



    HankT, Do you OPEN CARRY?



    Tarzan

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Morgan, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,580

    Post imported post

    tarzan1888 wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    Do you know self-defense?
    Better Question;



    HankT, Do you OPEN CARRY?



    Tarzan
    No Tarzan. The BEST question is if She carries PERIOD:celebrate



Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •