View Poll Results: Are penalties too harsh for sex offenders?

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  • No they should be worse.

    13 56.52%
  • No, just right.

    1 4.35%
  • They are improper.

    8 34.78%
  • Yes they are people too.

    0 0%
  • Rehabilitaion is key.

    1 4.35%
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Thread: To be free or not too?

  1. #1
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    That is not a spelling error. The entire thread on "should the blind carry" was very good and I am in favor of them carrying. However on the note of select oppression a resounding thought came back into my mind and so I have decided to broaden the opinions I have received in the matter.

    Do you feel the penalties on child molesters are too harsh?

    Such a touchy subject but I will help break it down.

    http://www.megans-law.net/Megans law was inacted May 17th 1996 it helped create a data base to track and register sex offenders.

    This law completely strips a person from all freedoms of privacy. And in some cases may prove fatal if someone wishes revenge. Do you feel this is just? Are there other ways to go about punishing that most heinous of crimes? Yes they are allowed to live without lasting injury or disfigurement but they are surely not granted the same rights you or I are. They cannot own or carry a firearm ever. The neighborhood gets informed on every movethey make. They loose all civil liberties. Is this how we should punish people?

    The real questions to ask. What is being acomplished by all of this? What are the long term goals. Can sex offenders be rehabilitated? Should we try?

    I will reveal my thoughts at a later time I want to see some other opinions.



  2. #2
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    I think penalties should be MORE strict. So they lose their constitutional rights. So what? I was watching To Catch a Predator, and these evil men that are going to anally rape a 12 or 13 year old girl only get 4-7 years! WTF?!

    I think the first offense should be castration and if you figure out a way to be a repeat offender you should be shot by a firing squad. Rape is no joke. It sickens me that it isn't a capital crime.

  3. #3
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    expvideo wrote:
    I think penalties should be MORE strict. So they lose their constitutional rights. So what? I was watching To Catch a Predator, and these evil men that are going to anally rape a 12 or 13 year old girl only get 4-7 years! WTF?!

    I think the first offense should be castration and if you figure out a way to be a repeat offender you should be shot by a firing squad. Rape is no joke. It sickens me that it isn't a capital crime.
    I'd watch out for to catch a predator. There's been 1 special so far debunking them. Alot of charges involved in that have been thrown out for entrapment. Chris Hanson giving orders to police is a little concerning.In oneepisodea person doesn't show up and they start packing up to leave so Chris Hanson decides to get all of the police and the cast to go confront this guy at his home. They show up and the guy shoots at thepolice then shoots himself. The special calling them out showsHanson ordering the police around and suggesting they go confront the guy; looks like an effort to"make" something happen. I'm curious what really goes on behind the scenes as their set up agency refuses to give all of the details of their conversations with the predators.



    What I want to know is, how can a "sex offender registry" be constitutional? We're always fighting gun registries, but a sex offender registry doesn't require you to registry because you own something, but simply by being alive.

  4. #4
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    DeltaII5 wrote:
    What I want to know is, how can a "sex offender registry" be constitutional? We're always fighting gun registries, but a sex offender registry doesn't require you to registry because you own something, but simply by being alive.
    No it's because you did something.

  5. #5
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    They are all right for actual sex offenders, but the registry gets a little cheapened when they put every teen who gets a little drunk and urinates in public on it. I am all for keeping track of sex offenders, but the definition needs to be a lot tighter.

  6. #6
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    FogRider wrote:
    They are all right for actual sex offenders, but the registry gets a little cheapened when they put every teen who gets a little drunk and urinates in public on it. I am all for keeping track of sex offenders, but the definition needs to be a lot tighter.
    I agree. As for rapists and attempted rapists, they should be castrated for the first offense and shot for each additional offense

  7. #7
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    when you get more time for dealing drugs than someone does for molesting children something needs to be changed...lighten drug sentences and much harsher sentences for sex offenders

  8. #8
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    Beware of a correspondence between hierarchies of punishment and hierarchies of crime. Punishment is concrete and subjective while criminality is assigned at the caprice of the legislature. There is not an objective hierarchy of crime.

    Look to the hysteria about abuse of dogs, vicious and not. The 'sensitive' force moral equivalence between (murder of) man and (killing of) beasts and that is pathetic.

    Is punisment to be curative or cruel? Castration cures nothing but constrains the criminal tool only. Sufficient law to make the bad good cannot be written. Sufficient punishment to make the bad good cannot be meted.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP *******



  9. #9
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Beware of a correspondence between hierarchies of punishment and hierarchies of crime. Punishment is concrete and subjective while criminality is assigned at the caprice of the legislature. There is not an objective hierarchy of crime.

    Look to the hysteria about abuse of dogs, vicious and not. The 'sensitive' force moral equivalence between (murder of) man and (killing of) beasts and that is pathetic.

    Is punisment to be curative or cruel? Castration cures nothing but constrains the criminal tool only. Sufficient law to make the bad good cannot be written. Sufficient punishment to make the bad good cannot be meted.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP *******

    But it will make me feel better.

  10. #10
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    Beware of a correspondence between hierarchies of punishment and hierarchies of crime. Punishment is concrete and subjective while criminality is assigned at the caprice of the legislature. There is not an objective hierarchy of crime.

    Look to the hysteria about abuse of dogs, vicious and not. The 'sensitive' force moral equivalence between (murder of) man and (killing of) beasts and that is pathetic.

    Is punisment to be curative or cruel? Castration cures nothing but constrains the criminal tool only. Sufficient law to make the bad good cannot be written. Sufficient punishment to make the bad good cannot be meted.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP *******

    But it will make me feel better.

  11. #11
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    I'm just going to throw this out there...ever since Megan's Law was enacted, each and every new amendment and/or legislation related to the law is retroactively applied to those who were convicted of sexual crimes.

    Let's take for instance, an individual who was convicted of such a crime 30+ years ago. Let's say this individual spent time in jail/prison and a number of years of probation. The individual was and/or is concerned and wants to be rehabilitated and spends many years in therapy doing that.

    30+ years later the individual is a hard working middle aged person who goes on to get married. Doing considerably better than they were doing 20 years prior. Said individual is rehabilitated and, in general, society agrees (I know that some will counter saying that nobody is ever rehabilitated). He/she has paid their debt and gone through the pains of rehabilitation. They've reformed and are now an upstanding individual in society.

    Is it fair to enact new legislation that persecutes this individual every year placing new requirements on them? Would we do the same for convicted murders? Would we do the same for those convicted of fraud? How about grand larceny?

    Are we are a nation who cares about the liberty of each person? Do we put such a value on liberty that no person's liberty can be violated for the sake of "safety"? Is there any more or less risk associated with not having these laws vs. making new laws or vice versa? Do these laws actually solve the problem they are intended to solve?

    Consider this....you have a convicted sex offender. Each year, a new law is enacted and retroactively applied. Therefore, each year, this convicted sex offender looses more and more of his/her liberty. Eventually, this person loses all their rights. They have nothing to lose now. I'd be more concerned about this person than someone who has something to lose.

    Just some thoughts....

  12. #12
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    The song "Simple Man" by the Charlie Daniels Band perfectly reflects my views of crime and punishment.


    Simple Man


    I ain't nothin' but a simple man
    They call me a redneck I reckon that I am
    But there's things going on
    That make me mad down to the core.

    I have to work like a dog to make ends meet
    There's crooked politicians and crime in the street
    And I'm madder'n hell and I ain't gonna take it no more.

    We tell our kids to just say no
    Then some panty waist judge lets a drug dealer go
    Slaps him on the wrist and then he turns him back out on the town.

    Now if I had my way with people sellin' dope
    I'd take a big tall tree and a short piece of rope
    I'd hang 'em up high and let 'em swing 'til the sun goes down

    Well, you know what's wrong with the world today
    People done gone and put their Bible's away
    They're living by the law of the jungle not the law of the land
    The good book says it so I know it's the truth
    An eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth
    You better watch where you go and remember where you been
    That's the way I see it I'm a Simple Man.

    Now I'm the kinda man that'd not harm a mouse
    But if I catch somebody breakin in my house
    I've got twelve guage shotgun waiting on the other side

    So don't go pushing me against my will
    I don't want to have to fight you but I dern sure will
    So if you don't want trouble then you'd better just pass me on by

    As far as I'm concerned there ain't no excuse
    For the raping and the killing and the child abuse
    And I've got a way to put an end to all that mess

    Just take them rascals out in the swamp
    Put 'em on their knees and tie 'em to a stump
    Let the rattlers and the bugs and the alligators do the rest

    You know what's wrong with the world today
    People done gone and put their Bible's away
    They're living by the law of the jungle not the law of the land
    The Good Book says it so I know it's the truth
    An eye for and eye and a tooth for a tooth
    You better watch where you go and remember where you been
    That's the way I see it I'm a Simple Man.


    :X

  13. #13
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    Count me in the camp that would permit even harsher penalties IF (and this is a big if) we could find a universal definition that differentiates horrific behavior from consenting behavior; that protects our very young while recognizing in many ways a 16- or 17-year-old is not a "child"; that punishes the molester while leaving alone the 4-year-old who rubs his teacher's chest or tries to give her a hug.

    The true molesters, the sexual predators, the deviates who prey on others - whether child or not - should be punished in a way that mimics the terror they bring to their vicitms.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

  14. #14
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    I will add to my earlier post by stating that initial penalties should be more severe than they are now. The area where I have issue is where new laws are enacted retroactively to those who have already paid their dues and reformed. It's more punishment added to what was already supposed to punishment. Is it double jeopardy, triple jeopardy and so on? As each legislative year passes, more bills are added to the sex offender laws...so, punishment just continues to grow for those individuals.

    I see no end to the cycle, these people are convicted felons and thus may longer vote. So, even if they voice their distaste to their legislators, it makes no difference. Where does the punishment stop?

    When murderers are released and serve their probation and/or parole, they are then turned back over to society. They've paid their dues and they don't have to worry about new laws that punish them (not yet, anyway).

  15. #15
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    expvideo wrote:
    DeltaII5 wrote:
    What I want to know is, how can a "sex offender registry" be constitutional? We're always fighting gun registries, but a sex offender registry doesn't require you to registry because you own something, but simply by being alive.
    No it's because you did something.
    Yes and that is why they went to jail. They should be in jail longer then.



    I don't like the concept of registrys. No matter what is on it, especially guns.

  16. #16
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    Some pretty good answers I think...

    My take on the whole situation is as follows. If we as a country alllow them to take away the rights of a citizen on a daily basis with no restraint, than we open ourselves up to having our rights stripped on a daily basis for any reason they deem fit. None of these laws stopmolestation, and none of them do anything towards rehabilitating people. As someone pointed out having nothing toloose often makes the situation worse.

    I think child molestation issecond only to genicide. I think its worse than murder for the fact that it scars for life. And try as you might you will never get that out of your system. Worse yet you have a greater chance of doing the same to future generations. So it becomes a sick cycle without end. I feel there is no way to justify child molestation and the punishment if proven 100% undeniably guilty should be death. There is such a small margin of success in rehabilitating child molesters that I do not feel it would withstand the fear of losing ones life if you commit said act.

    Rape or sexual assult, is a different crime withdifferent outcomes. Women who are raped do not go on to rape other women. However it shares the psychological torment. Regardless I think any second offense on this charge should result ina death penalty. Some people can be rehabilitated in this area and someare wrongly charged. But for a second offense there is no changing thatperson and chances are its not a mistake.

    I don't thinkcastration or any of form a body mutilation isin order because I feel that it does not provide the same fear factor that the loss of life does. Somepeople make mistakes in life and some mistakes can be worked past and some should be forgiven. But there are things inthis life that are unforgivable andI feel strongly that these are examples of that. It is up to us a advanced society to move past our primal urges and become more civil by the moment. If we constantly allow that which is intolerable we cannot expect to move past primal behavior.

  17. #17
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    Isn't it fairly obvious that punishment doesn't work? It just allows those who claim a crime as their "personal Virginia Tech" to get their jollies when someone else has to suffer.

    My idea of criminal justice is as follows: First, rehabilitation. If one can't be rehabilitated, then removal from society. I also don't buy into the ******** argument that rapists can't be rehabilitated. Sure, most of them probably can't, and belong in prison. Not having needles stabbed into their genitalia for 20 hours a day like many people want for them, but sitting in a secured institution with minimal comforts, removed from society. They should be given a chance, though, and if they can be suitably judged as rehabilitated, then give them the same freedoms they had before.

    Then again, I'm crazy for believing that freedom doesn't only apply to me.

  18. #18
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    Who is going to plan for their stay at this prison/mental instituion?

  19. #19
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    The whole sexual predator registry thing is so screwed up until it is worthless and most of the laws are ablout as bad. Look through the registry and if you can figure out why they are in it you can see what I mean. There are some the deserve to have the entire lower portion of their body amputated rather than just castration and others that have been put on there simply because of either lies or revenge. An 18 year only boy having sex with a 17 year old girl will get you on there in some states even if she was the one instigating it. You can also get on there if some deranged social worker decides that they don't like the way the day care center is being run and can talk some 2 year old into admitting that you touched them in the wrong place.

    Ture child molesters should be tarred, feathered, drawn and quartered but too many get caught in the web of overzealous child protectors.

  20. #20
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    I think we put way too much emphasis on sex in this country. As such, to me rape isn't nearly as big of a deal as other types of assaults where people are severely injured. Of course it should be a serious crime, but I do have to dissent from the popular view. (Watch me be berated for this, despite this forum being all about alternative views. *cough*)

    Child molestation is a big deal comparatively, however. I don't really see any problem with the current system if what we have now is on the harshest end of the spectrum. As with things like petty drug charges and IP theft cases, I strongly disagree with taking away years of a person's freedom entirely (and then doing the same thing somewhat even after prison). That to me is the ultimate crime anyone can commit. Here we are giving the state that authority. That's reckless...especially since they get it wrong so often.

  21. #21
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    They are all right for actual sex offenders, but the registry gets a little cheapened when they put every teen who gets a little drunk and urinates in public on it. I am all for keeping track of sex offenders, but the definition needs to be a lot tighter.
    +1

    Of course, the whole concept of a registry seems a little silly to me . Then again, I'm somewhat of a "bullet, back of the head, end of problem" kind of guy, so take anything I say on this matter with a large grain of salt. I'd agree with whoever suggested the "second strike and you're out...permenantly" approach.

  22. #22
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    Particle wrote:
    I think we put way too much emphasis on sex in this country. As such, to me rape isn't nearly as big of a deal as other types of assaults where people are severely injured. Of course it should be a serious crime, but I do have to dissent from the popular view. (Watch me be berated for this, despite this forum being all about alternative views. *cough*)

    Child molestation is a big deal comparatively, however. I don't really see any problem with the current system if what we have now is on the harshest end of the spectrum. As with things like petty drug charges and IP theft cases, I strongly disagree with taking away years of a person's freedom entirely (and then doing the same thing somewhat even after prison). That to me is the ultimate crime anyone can commit. Here we are giving the state that authority. That's reckless...especially since they get it wrong so often.
    Hmmm... sounds good.

    As for the former part, it seems incredibly ironic that while rape is considered so emotionally scarring, so many people revel in the raping that accused rapists will get in prison. But yes, American prudishness certainly factors in significantly in our views on the seriousness of rape. Then again, we gotta remember to respect our American Right to Christianity...

  23. #23
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Particle wrote:
    I think we put way too much emphasis on sex in this country. As such, to me rape isn't nearly as big of a deal as other types of assaults where people are severely injured. Of course it should be a serious crime, but I do have to dissent from the popular view. (Watch me be berated for this, despite this forum being all about alternative views. *cough*)
    This forum is not about alternative views - it is about open carry and directly related topics.

    I'm not going to berate you - that would be personal. I respect your right to your opinion but you must bear the weight of your words too.

    I'm a male also and the chances of my ever being raped (unless I were to be imprisoned) are remote. That said, we cannot truly relate to what a female in any society might experience - the physical + emotional damage.

    What might be overlooked is that virtually all rapes involve the use of force and frequently actual infliction of injury or death. While these acts may constitute grounds for separate charges, they compound the heinousness of the crime.
    Rape is not a simple assault - it is identifiably greater. Before you object to this logic, understand that their are many other degrees of assault and similarly various degrees of murder.

    Not on my watch - Yata hey



    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  24. #24
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    I agree with you for the most part. This forum is about alternate views, however. Open carry is an alternate view to the norm. It's that kind of thinking that fosters a community like this.

  25. #25
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    Particle wrote:
    I agree with you for the most part. This forum is about alternate views, however. Open carry is an alternate view to the norm. It's that kind of thinking that fosters a community like this.
    Unfortunately, I don't think that's entirely accurate. Although OCDO members, in general, strongly support open carry even though it is the minority opinion even in the pro-gun movement, it's still a pro-gun opinion, which still falls under the aggregate of Republican issues. This is why we have a thread seemingly every other day about how immigrants shouldn't have any rights. Just following the party... There are certianly many who have the open mindedness that is the logical conclusion of open carry support, but I get the impression that they're in the minority.

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