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BMWAG arrested AND jailed

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psmartin

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Richmond, Virginia, USA
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peter nap wrote:
Judgment and ego's doen'y necessarly go together. The way it looks to me, is like you went there to satisfy your ego. The I can Carry and you can't stop me.....attitude .

That's fine and is your decision.

Cops have to carry and show ID, Reporters have to carry ID, Insurance Agents have to carry ID. Ordinary Citizens do not! But a citizen approaching a crime scene, armed should exercise some judgment and have ID...and show it on request. That's not the same thing as a police officer interrupting your dinner at Fudruckers and asking for ID.

If one wishes to make a statement and NEVER SHOW ID...that's his business, but don't whine about it when you get hauled down to the pokie. This makes all gun owners look bad and especially OC'rs.

Black and armed irritates me also. I DISLIKE RACISTS. I also dislike people who use their race to explain poor judgment. IMHO...under the same circumstances. the same thing would happen to a white person!
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I agree with you on the "white person" angle. My wife & I are both the "question authority, but as long as you aren't going to get fired for it" wavelength. But in her case, if she gets arrested while "on the job & in the performance of duties", the company is responsible for posting bond and arranging for release (HOW COOL IS THAT?!?!!!)

It's like the sign at the car repair shop, "GOOD, QUICK, CHEAP - PICK ANY TWO"

You can A) Intervene with a police investigation B) Carry a gun C) Refuse to show ID

But if you try doing all 3 at once, you MIGHT JUST HAVE A PROBLEM.

Dunbus, hire a lawyer. Lawyers are training just like police: "Lie with a straight face"
 
R

Ric in Richmond

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2006
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192
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Richmond, Virginia, USA
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peter nap wrote:
Cops have to carry and show ID, Reporters have to carry ID, Insurance Agents have to carry ID. Ordinary Citizens do not! But a citizen approaching a crime scene, armed should exercise some judgment and have ID...and show it on request. That's not the same thing as a police officer interrupting your dinner at Fudruckers and asking for ID.
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Do you know someting about insurance agents that I am unaware of??



Good luck Danbus....Hope you nail em!!

Ric
 
SouthernBoy

SouthernBoy

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May 12, 2007
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Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
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danbus wrote:
It's hard being black and armed.

_______________________
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I have followed to some degree the previous adventures of danbus, but I have to say, that the BMWAG thing and then this.. " It's hard being black and armed." wears thin.

If we want to play the race card, then consider this. There is far more racism practiced against whites by minorities in the US than the other way around. And not only from minorities, but just about all governmental entities, be them local, state, or federal.

I generally do support danbus in his efforts, but this racial stuff doesn't wash with me. I was raised Southern and taught to treat everyone with respect and dignity until given reason not to. And I certainly do not wish danbus any ill will by any stretch. I hope he is able to get things worked out and set the LEOs straight with their errors. I'll continue to root for him in all of this. After all, he is one of us.. right?
 
sccrref

sccrref

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Virginia Beach, VA, , USA
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PT111 wrote:
I am just going to say that if the police were investigating an incident whether or not a crime had been committed and someone comes walking up trying to find out what is going on while carrying a weapon,then they have every right to disarm that person and question them the same as they would the person they were questioning to start with. Since you took the liberty to interject yourself into their investigation then they had every right to consider you as part of that investigation. IANAL nor do I play one on TV and I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn Express lst night. However if I were a LEO and someone tried to get involved with it they are either a partner or better be their lawyer. Seems to me you went looking for trouble,
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Please cite the statute that makes asking the question "What's going on?" a crime in the state of VA or any other state for that matter. Oh, wait a sec, Police State would be the answer to my question.

Danbus, if your OP is on point have a go at them in civil court. As previously posted, stay out of VA Bch as my taxes are high enough and I am unable to take a tax increase to cover the payment of the settlement. :D

Good luck.
 
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sjhipple

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May 31, 2007
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Concord, New Hampshire, USA
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Dan, I think you can win this one, but I think it's going to be more complicated than the last one. You're going to need a lawyer (I think you already had one).
 
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LEO 229

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USA
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After a hard day at work... it was nice to come home and read a shocking story!! :D

I am not going to say too much. Not going to defend either party.

Going to have to agree with Hank.... you walked into the lions den and they ate you up. You had no business walking up and questioning the officers that night. I think you wanted trouble.

You did so willingly and did so armed knowing full well what could happen. When they focused their attention on you...and asked for ID and you knew the options. Show your ID witha good chanceto go home... or refuse and get arrested again.

You gleefully refused!!! again!!!

I am told that down there in that neck of the woods... the obstruction charge is upheld by the judges.

Best of luck to you. :p

What is that phrase Forest Gump says??
 
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sjhipple

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Concord, New Hampshire, USA
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LEO 229 wrote:
Going to have to agree with Hank.... you walked into the lions den and they ate you up.
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Not true. They charged him with a bogus charge...that's what they do. That doesn't equal being "ate up." They still have to defend their BS charge. If this is their usual way of doing things, it's good that this will get tested in court.



You did so willingly and did so armed knowing full well what could happen. When they focused their attention on you...and asked for ID and you knew the options. Show your ID witha good chanceto go home... or refuse and get arrested again.
Click to expand...
Thank god not everyone is as pliable as you'd like them to be. And what "could happen" and what's legal are two different things.
I am told that down there in that neck of the woods... the obstruction charge is upheld by the judges.
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I doubt there's been a situation like this. And besides, there are appeals and other such things. You don't have to show ID in Virginia. PERIOD. If there are judges breaking that law, then I'm glad there's someone willing to challenge it and get it overturned.
 
C

CA_Libertarian

State Researcher
Joined
Jul 18, 2007
Messages
2,585
Location
Stanislaus County, California, USA
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psmartin wrote:
danbus wrote:
On Oct 21 around 7:35pm, I went to walk down a street because I was notified that the police were speaking to a young man. In this particular neighborhood, the police come frequently and seem to harass the young black kids. I went to see what exactly was going on.
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Not to bust your chops.. BUT!!!

It's not wise tomeddle with an active a police investigation.. My wife is a news reportor, and with State Police press credentials, you can REALLY REALLY bug the police with near immunity, but I think that might even cross the line.

OCDO'ers aren't gaining any traction by meddling in police affairs of others.

I'm behind you all the way (literally, I'm standing behind... a long way behind).

Call me crazy.. But if the the police are called in my neighborhood.. I'm NOT going to be walking over to make sure the police are doing their job.

Unless I'm COMPLETELY misreading this, you might want to have a lawyer to make sure the book doesn't get thrown at you.. If you get the wrong judge, they just might throw the book at you.
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The police are our servants. Show me where the constitution says we the people can't subject our servants to scrutiny?


PT111 wrote:
I am just going to say that if the police were investigating an incident whether or not a crime had been committed and someone comes walking up trying to find out what is going on while carrying a weapon,then they have every right to disarm that person and question them the same as they would the person they were questioning to start with. Since you took the liberty to interject yourself into their investigation then they had every right to consider you as part of that investigation. IANAL nor do I play one on TV and I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn Express lst night. However if I were a LEO and someone tried to get involved with it they are either a partner or better be their lawyer. Seems to me you went looking for trouble
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PT111, I'm surprised that you think the RKBA extends to WMDs, but regular pistols don't extend to crime scenes. Amazing you think a crime scene is a good disarmed citizen zone.
 
IanB

IanB

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I wish Danbus lived up in NoVA so I could follow him around with a video camera. I think this is a clear cut case of buhlsheet and the cops are going to eat the paper that ticket was written on.
 
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LEO 229

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ama-gi wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
Going to have to agree with Hank.... you walked into the lions den and they ate you up.
Click to expand...
Not true. They charged him with a bogus charge...that's what they do. That doesn't equal being "ate up." They still have to defend their BS charge. If this is their usual way of doing things, it's good that this will get tested in court.



You did so willingly and did so armed knowing full well what could happen. When they focused their attention on you...and asked for ID and you knew the options. Show your ID witha good chanceto go home... or refuse and get arrested again.
Click to expand...
Thank god not everyone is as pliable as you'd like them to be. And what "could happen" and what's legal are two different things.
I am told that down there in that neck of the woods... the obstruction charge is upheld by the judges.
Click to expand...
I doubt there's been a situation like this. And besides, there are appeals and other such things. You don't have to show ID in Virginia. PERIOD. If there are judges breaking that law, then I'm glad there's someone willing to challenge it and get it overturned.
Click to expand...
Your a little slow.. huh? :D

When I talked about eating him.. I did not mean for real. You do understand that, right? In simpler terms you can understand..... he approached a situation he knew was not in his best interests from past experiences.

When you willingly play with a snake... you know you can get bit. He did!!

What "could" happen was already known by him. He had already done it before so he knew what the outcome was going to be.

Even a child that touches a hot stove quickly learns not to do it again. :lol:
 
S

sjhipple

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Concord, New Hampshire, USA
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LEO 229 wrote:
Your a little slow.. huh? :D

When I talked about eating him.. I did not mean for real. You do understand that, right? In simpler terms you can understand..... he approached a situation he knew was not in his best interests from past experiences.
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I didn't answer it as if you'd said it literally...they didn't "eat him up" literally or figuratively. Getting pissed off that someone doesn't lick your boots and writing some BS on a piece of paper doesn't mean they "ate him up," "taught him a lesson," "won the argument" or anything else. I know you enjoy your power and everything, but the summons means nothing till backed up by a judge. This fight is far from over.

And allow me to point out, a much gentler comment about police would leave you crying for the mods to delete the offending posts.
When you willingly play with a snake... you know you can get bit. He did!!
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No, he didn't. He got handed a piece of paper (by snakes) without any legal backing to it. Again, this isn't over.
What "could" happen was already known by him. He had already done it before so he knew what the outcome was going to be.
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Yup, and that demonstrates bravery in the face of law-breaking power junkies. I commend him for it.
Even a child that touches a hot stove quickly learns not to do it again. :lol:
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Yeah, but somehow cops don't learn the law as quickly as children do. People like Dan will have to continue to put the hot stove in front of them till they stop touching it.
 
DrMark

DrMark

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Hampton Roads, Virginia, USA
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danbus wrote:
I approached armed with my firearm in my holster. I asked, "what's going on?". They replied there were just doing an investigation. They then proceeded to ask me to put my hands on my head so that they can disarm me.
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Maybe I'm missing some detail here.

Wouldn't a normal, reasonable, expectedresponse by the police officers be something along the lines of "We're conducting an investigation. Please vacate the area, sir."

It sounds like the police responded to a simple inquiry (in a public area) with a detention.

Am I missing some detail here?
 
T

Thors_Mitersaw

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In my opinion/experience, discrimination against people of all colors sizes and cultures gets worse the farther into the city you get, the larger government is, and the more power police have (because they gain mor eincentive and power to act aggressively).

I used to have very long hair and wear lots of black ripped shirts and etc before I got a job out of college. I was quite often the target of police drug dog searches (I have never even smoked a ciggarette in my life), asked if I was armed many times, had a check done to see if I had WARRANTS on my ARREST TWICE. Cops discriminate. What more is there to say? To be fair though I think if the cops I have met on duty were as principled and decent as the cops I have met who are retired, like some folks in the VCDL, I would probably have a lot better opinion of the profession.

Danbus did not do anything wrong... besides being black and carry a gun :(
 
L

longwatch

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Virginia, USA
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I'm with Dan, citizens have the right to observe the police operating in public, armed or not. Arresting him for not showing his ID is not justification for an obstruction of justice arrest in this Commonwealth. Though I do recommend hiring a good attorney who can cite the case law afirming this.
 
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