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Thread: Members of public successfully open carry on Virginia Tech campus

  1. #1
    Newbie W.E.G.'s Avatar
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    Another report: http://www.wsls.com/servlet/Satellit...news!localnews

    --

    From VA-ALERT: Virginia Tech talk wrap up

    -----Original Message-----
    From: VCDL President
    Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2007 6:12 PM
    Subject: VA-ALERT: Virginia Tech talk wrap up

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    VCDL's Gun Dealer Legal Defense Fund -- help fight Mayor Bloomberg's scheme to cripple Virginia firearms dealers. See:
    http://www.vcdl.org/index.html#DefenseFund
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    VCDL's meeting schedule: http://www.vcdl.org/meetings.html
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    My talk at Virginia Tech went smoothly last night.

    I was really looking forward to speaking at that beautiful campus and to meet students, faculty, and staff. I definitely wasn't disappointed in any of those things. Nice people, including several VCDL members, and gracious hospitality.

    TV station WDBJ (channel 7) estimated attendance at about 100 people.
    Three or four people were open carrying that I noticed.

    Thanks to the Libertarians at Virginia Tech for giving me the opportunity. Special thanks to Jonathan McGlumphy for moderating the event and Christine Malady, President, for the invitation.

    EMs attending were Bruce Jackson (also on the VCDL Board), Sandy Ferris (both of whom travelled from Fredericksburg!), and Dave Knight.

    Bradford Wiles also attended. Bradford, as you might recall, has been working the carry issue at VT for some time now as a student.

    I have audio of the talk and my PowerPoint presentation, which I plan on combining into something that can be downloaded from the Internet.
    The idea being that other interested groups can watch the presentation. I will let everyone know when it is ready and posted to the VCDL web site.

    Here is coverage by a local TV channel:

    http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.asp?S=7283228

    Should college students and teachers be allowed to carry guns on campus?

    The controversial question hit a feverish pitch across the country shortly after the Virginia Tech shootings. The question surfaced again at Virginia Tech Monday night.

    The student chapter of the Libertarian Party at Virginia Tech sponsored the event. Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens' Defense League, spoke to a crowd of about 100 people.

    Van Cleave told the audience while police are always "on duty", just like they were the day of the shootings, when seconds count, they are likely minutes away. He also says technology, like the warning sirens and the text alert systems, can't always be trusted.

    Van Cleave says the Virginia Citizens' Defense League is currently working on a new bill which would overrule all university administrator's decision not to allow students and faculty to carry guns on campus.

    --

    Here is coverage by the VT newspaper, Collegiate Times. There is a
    place for comments at the end of the article on the web and there are
    quite a few. Feel free to jump in:

    http://tinyurl.com/yvqppt

    Speaker endorses concealed weapons
    Caroline Black, CT University Editor
    Tuesday, October 30; 12:00 AM

    While the audience milled around in the entryway with exposed guns
    hanging from holsters in their khakis
    , Philip Van Cleave took the
    stage in Litton Reaves last night to speak on behalf of the rights of
    gun owners to carry their weapons concealed on campus.

    Van Cleave is the president of the Virginia Citizen's Defense League
    (VCDL) and his lecture, Higher Education and Lawful Concealed Carry:
    How Much is Your Life Worth?, was hosted last night by the
    Libertarians at Virginia Tech.

    Concealed carry is a legal authorization for anyone eligible to own a
    handgun or other weapon to be able to carry that weapon in a
    concealed, non-visible manner. Currently, it is against the
    university policy for anyone to carry a concealed weapon on campus.

    Van Cleave opened his presentation last night in front of a giant
    screen on which was projected a PowerPoint opening with the words,
    "When seconds count between living or dying, the police are only
    minutes away."

    That sentiment seemed to be echoed throughout his presentation, as
    Van Cleave made several more allusions and references that
    highlighted his apparent dissatisfaction with the performance of the
    police when it comes to providing safety to citizens. He summed up
    his thoughts on police protection with the phrase, "I'm responsible
    for my safety, the police will be my backup, but I'll protect myself."

    Making his first specific reference to Tech, Van Cleave asked "How
    many students are here? How many police, how many square miles? It
    may be too late, and that is the significance of being able to defend
    yourself."

    He took issue with university police, calling the concept a "conflict
    of interest" because with the administration as their bosses,
    university police can be told to try and keep crime statistics quiet
    by the people who "sign their paychecks."

    Van Cleave governed his speech last night around a PowerPoint
    presentation that made an explosive metaphor of his views of gun
    control. Modeling gun control as a "bomb," the bureaucratic mindset
    as the "fuse," and the criminal mindset as the "flame," he speculated
    that when all of those elements come together, that is when bad
    situations occur, and the right to carry concealed weapons on campus
    is not the real problem.

    He argued that students were being labeled as unstable or unreliable,
    and that gun control advocates don't believe that students are mature
    enough to handle the right to carry concealed weapons on campus.
    However, Van Cleave explained, students over 21 who are able to
    drive, drink, vote and serve their country should not be considered
    incapable of handling the responsibility of a concealed weapon.

    Of the alert systems, Van Cleave said, "Basically, (by restricting
    the right to concealed carry on campus) the government is telling me
    that if these things fail, I'll die."

    He was also of the opinion that being able to carry guns, even
    concealed, is actually a deterrent to crime, saying that there is a
    certain look or attitude that comes with carrying a concealed weapon
    that can alert potential attackers or criminals to the fact that
    someone they may be targeting can defend themselves, and they will be
    less likely to commit an act of aggression.

    His presentation was peppered with personal stories and anecdotes in
    which just the presence of guns have prevented dangerous crimes,
    including a friend [That maverick, Dennis O'Connor ;-) - PVC] who was
    in a bank openly carrying a gun in a holster when a man entered
    wearing a ski mask, noticed the friend's exposed weapon, and
    hurriedly left the bank.

    During a question and answer session in which the audience could
    write their questions on index cards, which were filtered by
    organizers, most questions seemed to be about gun rights that are
    already established.

    One question was asked about whether or not Tech students had the
    right to carry weapons in a visible manner, to which one audience
    member loudly responded, "Only once!" to open laughter.
    [Board
    Member Bruce Jackson, referring to students getting expelled for
    breaking a school rule - PVC]

    Van Cleave summarized his opinion that the right to conceal carry
    guns on campus would benefit students with one of his closing
    statements.

    "(Seung-Hui) Cho had planned to kill himself when police showed up.
    If someone else had displayed force, would he have done the same
    thing? I believe he would."

    -------------------------------------------
    ************************************************** *************************
    VA-ALERT is a project of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    (VCDL). VCDL is an all-volunteer, non-partisan grassroots organization
    dedicated to defending the human rights of all Virginians. The Right to
    Keep and Bear Arms is a fundamental human right.

    VCDL web page: http://www.vcdl.org
    ************************************************** *************************




  2. #2
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    The student? On the video at 1:41? Was, like, really annoying?? Because, she like said "like" after every, like, 4 words?

    It seems we'll never be rid of the stupid argument that we should ban guns because we don't want them on campus (or wherever) as if criminals obey the bans. It comes down to people's irrational and illogical fears...not much reasoning to be done with them, I guess.

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    ama-gi wrote:
    The student? On the video at 1:41? Was, like, really annoying?? Because, she like said "like" after every, like, 4 words?

    It seems we'll never be rid of the stupid argument that we should ban guns because we don't want them on campus (or wherever) as if criminals obey the bans. It comes down to people's irrational and illogical fears...not much reasoning to be done with them, I guess.
    That was the one,the second girl... I was, like, wondering about, like,her eyes. (almost had the same problem, there, ama-gi) Maybe it was a long night of studying.

    The first girl feared "...weapons on campusthat could kill me easily, if they wanted to use them..." Where is that logic coming from? Everyone with a gun is bad? I suppose it's the influence of the news and TV shows. Maybe she's seen too many Devolites-Davis ads.

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    DoubleR wrote:
    The first girl feared "...weapons on campusthat could kill me easily, if they wanted to use them..." Where is that logic coming from? Everyone with a gun is bad? I suppose it's the influence of the news and TV shows. Maybe she's seen too many Devolites-Davis ads.
    Or maybe they haven't seen enough people open carrying . I firmly believe that while OCing scares the weaker minded the first time they see it... by the third and fourth time they see it without incident, thenegative impression will fade.

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    Wonderful writeup, wish I could have made the trip down there.
    -Unrequited

  6. #6
    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    If people would just open thier minds up even a little, they might realize that a fellow student in their class who is ccw-ing, actually makes them feel SAFER. The person has to pass a background check, submit fingerprints and depending on the state may have to take a ccw class or at least a handgun course. Take this from me, I am not a "gun nut", this ccw stuff is as new as April to me.

    The part about wether Cho would have killed himself had an armed student/teacher engaged him earlier on, intrigues me, I was just thinking about that the other day.

  7. #7
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    To me it doesn't matter if Cho would have killed himself had a student been CCing as they would have shot him anyway,....right? (in theory)

    Bottom line is,if people were carrying lives could/would have been saved.



  8. #8
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    Has the power point been made available as of yet?

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    Wynder wrote:
    Has the power point been made available as of yet?
    I've been trying to find vids period?

  10. #10
    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    Ghettokracker71 wrote:
    To me it doesn't matter if Cho would have killed himself had a student been CCing as they would have shot him anyway,....right? (in theory)

    Bottom line is,if people were carrying lives could/would have been saved.

    Judging by how police even will miss, or do not cause the perp to go down right away, Cho may have continued fighting by exchanging fire with a ccw'd student, but then may have decided enough's and enough and put his own gun to his head then and there. HoweverI would hope that the ccw'd student has a .45 with hp's and/or has done very well on head shot training at the range.

    That is what I was thinking about the other day.

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    XD40coyote wrote:
    Ghettokracker71 wrote:
    To me it doesn't matter if Cho would have killed himself had a student been CCing as they would have shot him anyway,....right? (in theory)

    Bottom line is,if people were carrying lives could/would have been saved.

    Judging by how police even will miss, or do not cause the perp to go down right away, Cho may have continued fighting by exchanging fire with a ccw'd student, but then may have decided enough's and enough and put his own gun to his head then and there. HoweverI would hope that the ccw'd student has a .45 with hp's and/or has done very well on head shot training at the range.

    That is what I was thinking about the other day.
    Hell even if the ccw was rocking a .380 kel-tec with +P rounds and an amralaser....

  12. #12
    Regular Member XD40coyote's Avatar
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    Ghettokracker71 wrote:
    XD40coyote wrote:
    Ghettokracker71 wrote:
    To me it doesn't matter if Cho would have killed himself had a student been CCing as they would have shot him anyway,....right? (in theory)

    Bottom line is,if people were carrying lives could/would have been saved.

    Judging by how police even will miss, or do not cause the perp to go down right away, Cho may have continued fighting by exchanging fire with a ccw'd student, but then may have decided enough's and enough and put his own gun to his head then and there. HoweverI would hope that the ccw'd student has a .45 with hp's and/or has done very well on head shot training at the range.

    That is what I was thinking about the other day.
    Hell even if the ccw was rocking a .380 kel-tec with +P rounds and an amralaser....
    With a head shot, sure. I am not LEO, but have been doing enough research about "stopping power" withCOM shots to safely say that alot of BG's that are hyped up on adrenline require many shots to the body. Cho would have been in a sort of combat mode, really hyped up, and may have been hard to bring down right away. Head shots center of brain or brain stem, and the dude is down! I suggest .45 hp's due to .45's being a known man stopper. Oh yeah, now I have made observations on raccoons, foxes, and possums with .22's. Chest shot foxes roll right over, but raccoons and possums are tough lil things. Head shot foxes go right over, raccoons and possums jerk around for a bit, possums sometimes hard to get a center brain/brainstem hit due to their teeny tiny brains. I figure alot of bad guys are like raccoons and possums when COM hit, tough- due to being hyped up in the human BG's case. A little more on foxes- they are quite delicate animals, they can be killed easily with a blow to the chest.

    All this knowledge, all this research I do, and I haven't done anything with it. I can't even get a ccw in my state ( Maryland). I do hope to do fiction writing again one of these days, so the knowldge can be good there, for accuracy. Otherwise, studying things is a diversion for my otherwise boring life.

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