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Thread: Put on Hold while calling 911 !?!?!?

  1. #1
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    On Thursday Eyewitness News ( Channel 5 ) is making an Investigation into Why we get put on hold and get an ANSWER MACHINE when we call 911.

    Cuz they don't REALLY have to answer.

    And People wonder why I Carry a 1911...cuz when 911 can't do it 1911 will

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    Quite right, they don't have to answer. That 1911 is a great solution if you need personal protection, but not of much help if you are trying to summon help for an automobile accident or house fire and get put on hold.

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    markand wrote:
    Quite right, they don't have to answer. That 1911 is a great solution if you need personal protection, but not of much help if you are trying to summon help for an automobile accident or house fire and get put on hold.
    But is anybody OBLIGATED to respond to a Traffic accident/Fire by Law.

    We know that the Police does NOT have an obligation to Protect us as individuals, but is rather a AUXILIARY GENERAL DETERRENT. This has been stated by the Supreme Court

    Does the FD have a LEGAL responsibility to come to a fire ???

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    Does the FD have a LEGAL responsibility to come to a fire ???
    That's an interesting question. We've all heard about the courst decision regarding the responsibility of police in regards to individual protection, I wonder if there is a fire department version...

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    I'm sure there is but I don't have a cite. I think if one could sue the fire dept because they couldn't prevent a house from burning down, I'm sure we would have heard about it.

    To the OP, JPFO has a book and phrase on the subject.
    Dial 911 and Die

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    Iam a vollunteer FF/EMT. As far as I have learned from every township/ city meeting.The county and statedo not have to provide fire service. Fire departments are often started by the people in the community. A vollunteer fire company has no duty to respond. A paid Fire Departmenthas a duty to repsond but does not have to act once they arrive. The Chief officer makes the decisionon what actions are taken next. Now this appliesonly in PA asfar as I know. PA is not an NFPAcomplient state. (This is why PA leads the country in FF deaths.) On the EMS side.Vollunteers do not have to respond either. However EMS counsel can revoke your license at will for whatever reason they seem justifiable. Again this is only what I have gathered from running both in the city and county. I do not know of any court cases that have gone on to prove this correct.

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    WhiteFeather wrote:
    Iam a vollunteer FF/EMT. As far as I have learned from every township/ city meeting.The county and statedo not have to provide fire service. Fire departments are often started by the people in the community. A vollunteer fire company has no duty to respond. A paid Fire Departmenthas a duty to repsond but does not have to act once they arrive. The Chief officer makes the decisionon what actions are taken next. Now this appliesonly in PA asfar as I know. PA is not an NFPAcomplient state. (This is why PA leads the country in FF deaths.) On the EMS side.Vollunteers do not have to respond either. However EMS counsel can revoke your license. Again this is only what I have gathered from running both in the city and county. I do not know of any court cases that have gone on to prove this correct.
    So what I gather (dissclaimer: what applies to PA may not apply to the country as a whole, but assume that for a second). We are REALLY on our own when it comes to personal protection, our house burning down and saving our own lifes.

    So now I have to go thru Post, Medical school and FF/EMT training to feel that I'm adequate in ANY response in life. Niiiice.

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    So, how many people open carry a fire extinguisher?

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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    So, how many people open carry a fire extinguisher?
    ROTFLAMO...

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    Stutter

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    There are occasional reports in SC of volunteer FDs responding and then haggling over non-payment of fire protection fees while the structure burned. No duty to act.

    As a 'private' EMT (I paid for my training and competed with pros for my slot in the class) I did not advertise with the Star of Life for the liability it brought. Hypothetically (from medico-legal class) I could'a been held liable for a by-standers non-action after seeing my SoL pass an incident - thinking I had gone for help.


    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP *******

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    There are occasional reports in SC of volunteer FDs responding and then haggling over non-payment of fire protection fees while the structure burned. No duty to act.

    As a 'private' EMT (I paid for my training and competed with pros for my slot in the class) I did not advertise with the Star of Life for the liability it brought. Hypothetically (from medico-legal class) I could'a been held liable for a by-standers non-action after seeing my SoL pass an incident - thinking I had gone for help.


    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP *******
    Hmm... "SOL" as an acronym- irony?

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    So what I gather (dissclaimer: what applies to PA may not apply to the country as a whole, but assume that for a second). We are REALLY on our own when it comes to personal protection, our house burning down and saving our own lifes.

    So now I have to go thru Post, Medical school and FF/EMT training to feel that I'm adequate in ANY response in life. Niiiice.
    Well... No I really wouldn't worry about your paid departments. Paid departments create revenue for the city by collecting insurance fees from burning buildings. And if they save them donations tend to pour in. The moments of question will arise in areas of cities where the area would be better without those houses there. If your house is next to a couple houses a company would like to see demolished but don't want to pay you may run into some issue.

    On the other side of things. Vollunteers are exactly that. I don't get one red cent for wasting my time, gas, or life in helping out those in need during times of distress. I do it because I enjoy helping people. The majority of vollunteer companies try to be able to cover every shift. However everybody has to work and so there are gaps in man power. This is why townships may have more than one company. But none of those companies have any duty to respond. If they can't... They can't.

    On the issue of trying to train and equip yourself forget about it. 2 years of fire fighter classes will get your foot in the door. It takes a life time of constant training. On the EMS side you still are looking to put outbig money. Licensing fees and equipment will kill that hope quickly. Your best bet would be to establish a good rapport with your local companies, donate here and there and I can promise you that if anything happened you'd be covered.

    Aside from that ask your local Fire company about some fire prevention material and information. Take a basic first aid + CPR and just live life to its fullest.

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    On Thursday Eyewitness News ( Channel 5 ) is making an Investigation into Why we get put on hold and get an ANSWER MACHINE when we call 911.

    Cuz they don't REALLY have to answer.

    And People wonder why I Carry a 1911...cuz when 911 can't do it 1911 will
    http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=2077061






















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    Index1 Main Story
    2 Read the public education material VECC is putting out on its 911 system.
    3 Read the email from VECC explaining the changes




    Video View This Story

    Audio Listen to VECC's newly-recorded 911 message.



    911 Nightmare Uncovered in Investigative Report
    November 1st, 2007 @ 10:15pm
    Debbie Dujanovic Reporting
    Produced by Kelly Just

    KSL has uncovered case after case of 911 nightmares! For weeks, investigative reporter Debbie Dujanovic has pursued an inside tip about Valley Emergency Communications, 911 calls and a system that's failing us.
    It doesn't matter the day, the time or the emergency, panicked 911 callers are being left in limbo. So we investigated. A national organization, local law enforcement and now the 911 center itself says there's a huge problem.
    Call 911 and you expect help right away. Instead you get this: "You've reached 911. Please do not hang up. Stay on the line for the next available operator."
    Susan Mathis called in the middle of the night to report a loud fight outside. She told KSL, "If those men had been in my house, I would've been dead. It was just a recording, it wasn't even a person."
    It was the same message for Adrian Brewer and KSL reporter Courtney Orton. Her husband owns a sandwich shop and they were trying to revive a teen passed out on the floor.
    "It blows me away that you can get a message like that when you call 911," Orton said.
    In David Hale's case, one of the worst we found, he thought his buddy was dying! He called five times! KSL obtained the recordings of those frantic minutes on hold.
    "Hello. Hello."
    "Oh my God, call 911."
    "I am. Hello?"
    "Try calling 911."
    "This is a joke. How can it not come through? Oh my God. Where's the dispatcher? This is a joke."
    No one ever picked up for him. In desperation, David finally found a phone book and dialed the police department, so his friend survived.
    You might expect jammed 911 lines during a major emergency, but the center's internal memos and our investigation reveal it doesn't matter if it's a busy time or not. Calls made at at 3 a.m., 11 a.m., and 8 p.m. were all put on hold with people waiting minutes for a live person. Plus, the message gives no idea how long you might be holding.
    Richard Taylor, President of the National Association of State 911 Administrators, said, "I don't think it would be acceptable in most centers in the country today."
    That national 911 association pointed to more problems. The message plays just once, then nothing. Callers think they've been disconnected and call back.
    Taylor adds, "It is not clear, nor is it long enough for me to understand."
    So we took specific examples to Valley Emergency, like this one: with her husband tearing up their home, a woman called 911 and tried 12 times to get through.
    We asked William Harry, with Valley Emergency, if that woman did something wrong. He replied, "Yes, if you call the center and get the message, 'You've reached the 911 center, do not hang up,' don't hang up. You'll be attended to as soon as an operator is available. If you do hang up and call back, it goes to the end of the line."
    The center agrees it has a problem with not enough staff to keep up with the calls. So they spent $1 million on a new system, figuring it was better to put folks on hold than to just let the phone ring. Now calls end up in a queue.
    Harry said, "Going into a queue is a misnomer, in that it's not really being placed on hold, that's just the way our telephone system answers the calls when there are no call-takers available."
    Salt Lake County Undersheriff Beau Babka has big concerns. Not only does Valley Emergency answer the county's 911 calls, but when the sheriff's office had its own medical emergency, its 911 call ended up on hold.
    "Something has to be mitigated here, because we just can't have it, we can't have it," Babka said.
    After we met with Valley Emergency, it made changes. As of today, the message is more clear, with better instructions. It will also launch an ad campaign to educate the public. It had already planned to add 11 call-takers.
    Even so, due to a variety of concerns, Salt Lake County is developing plans to answer its own 911 calls.


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    You would not believe what people call 9-1-1 for. That's really the problem here - too many people calling that shouldn't be, leaving no operators for the people that really need the help.

    People call 'cause they can't sleep
    People call 'cause their kid has been sick with a cold
    People call 'cause they need a phone number
    People call 'cause their neighbor is playing loud music
    People call 'cause they need a ride
    People call 'cause their child is misbehaving
    People call 'cause they have legal questions
    People call 'cause they've been masturbating too much and are worried they might injure themselves (yes I answered that call)

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    There was a story on the radio today about some guy who got arrested because he kept calling 911 and telling them he was out of beer and could they send a cop out to pick some up and drop it by his home. I laughed so hard I almost wrecked my truck.

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