Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Training directive recived from Olympia PD

  1. #1
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    This is a hand transcribed copy, I don't have a scanner. I will make a scanned copy available ASAP, or can mail a photocopy to anyone who can scan it for me... I believe Lt. Wilson did a great job on this, and I also know that lawyers are involved in OC issues with the OPD, so I believe that any other problems after this should be addressed through the City Attorney's Office. Essentially, Lt. Wilson, Chief Michel and some lawyer signed off on this.

    Instructive Olympia Police Department

    Issue Date: October 24, 2007


    Topic: Open carrying of firearms



    Reference : Article 1, section 24 of the Washington State Constitution, RCW 9.41.270 and 9.41.300.



    I Background



    The right to bear arms is guaranteed under the United States and Washington State constitutions. The State Legislature recognizing this right created laws governing individual freedoms pertaining to personal conduct involving the carrying of firearms and other weapons.



    Washington State is an "open carry" state for firearms. This means there is a presumption that carrying a handgun in an exposed holster, for instance, is legal except where it is specifically prohibited by law.



    RCW 9.41.300 reads in part... (left out to save time in transcription, explains where a person cannot carry a pistol, discharge, etc..)



    RCW 9.41.270 reads in part...



    (1) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry, exhibit, display or draw any firearm, dagger, sword, knife or other cutting or stabbing instrument, club, or any other weapon apparently capable of producing bodily harm, in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons. (OPD's underline)[/i]



    RCW 9.41.280 reads in part... (I left out to save time, cannot carry gun on school grounds, etc...)



    II Policy



    It is the policy of the Department that officers conduct safe and focused investigations of complaints involving weapons that are openly carried. In conducting these investigations, officers shall recognize both the right of individuals to openly carry weapons (as permitted by the Constitution and the law) and the public's right to feel safe.



    III Procedures



    A Assessment of open carry situations

    1 Officers evaluate the facts, including witness information, as they pertain to the manner, circumstance, time and place of the conduct in question.

    2 Officers shall use safe tactics when making contact with individuals who are openly carrying weapons to assure that neither they nor the public are in jeopardy.



    3 Officers shall investigate the circumstances to determine the following:

    a Whether a reasonable person would believe that the subject displayed, carried, exhibited or drew a weapon in a manner that manifested intent to intimidate another person or that warranted alarm for another person's safety. [RCW 9.41.270]



    b Whether the time, place or circumstances of the presence of the weapon constitutes a violation. [RCW 9.41.280, RCW 9.41.300]



    4 Officers should give priority to the interest of public safety when determining an appropriate course of action.



    B Reporting Requirements



    1 Clear violations of RCW 9.41.270, RCW 9.41.280 and RCW 9.41.300 are handled in the same manner as other violations.



    2 In situations where an officer believes there is a potential violation present, but where more intensive investigation or a prosecutorial opinion is required to make that determination, the incident is to be documented for follow-up, without immediate enforcement action.



    3 In situations where it is clear to an officer that no violation is present, no documentation is required.



    By



    William W. Wilson, Lieutenant



  2. #2
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Silverdale, Washington, USA
    Posts
    1,532

    Post imported post

    It is the policy of the Department that officers conduct safe and focused investigations of complaints involving weapons that are openly carried. In conducting these investigations, officers shall recognize both the right of individuals to openly carry weapons (as permitted by the Constitution and the law) and the public's right to feel safe.

    I think this is a pretty good directive. I don’t agree completely with the idea that the public’s “right to feel safe” should trump my constitutionally protected right to privacy, which the letter seems to omit. I consider my privacy one of, if not the most, important rights I have. If I don’t want to discuss the issue that day, or am not in the mood to show them my papers in order to peaceably walk down the street, what is their strategy for that contingency?

    It sounds like they still feel it’s appropriate to detain and question someone for OC, under the guise of doing an investigation. I wonder how they would react to someone refusing to surrender ID or someone who refused to talk to them at all.

    Great job though SV, you saw it through and got to see your efforts rewarded.

  3. #3
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    Mainsail wrote:
    I think this is a pretty good directive. I don’t agree completely with the idea that the public’s “right to feel safe” should trump my constitutionally protected right to privacy, which the letter seems to omit. I consider my privacy one of, if not the most, important rights I have. If I don’t want to discuss the issue that day, or am not in the mood to show them my papers in order to peaceably walk down the street, what is their strategy for that contingency?

    It sounds like they still feel it’s appropriate to detain and question someone for OC, under the guise of doing an investigation. I wonder how they would react to someone refusing to surrender ID or someone who refused to talk to them at all.

    Great job though SV, you saw it through and got to see your efforts rewarded.
    I agree, very well written directive.

    I have been told I will only be stopped if there is a 911 call, which other parts of the directive bear out.

    This seems to be a common theme of late, detain for a complaint, etc...

    I am still upset because they had witness testimoney as to what I was doing, plus had an opportunity to observe me before approaching me. I think this part was written by lawyers.

    Steve

  4. #4
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    5,953

    Post imported post

    Washington State is an "open carry" state for firearms. This means there is a presumption that carrying a handgun in an exposed holster, for instance, is legal except where it is specifically prohibited by law.
    This statement alone is worth it's weight in gold. There are still a lot of LEO's that feel that open carry is illegal. They hold to the premise that since WA issues a Conceled Pistol License, that only those with this document can carry and since it says Concealed that the weapon must be concealed. Actually having a PD acknowlege that OC is legal and having a document that says so is great. For someone that has a pistol openly carried, going about his normal business, this is excellent.

    The rest of the "mumbo jumbo" is just the "weasel clauses" that were added by the attorney.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Kitsap County, Washington, USA
    Posts
    573

    Post imported post

    Basically this is how I see it. If I am open carrying I do not carry my license to conceal. I leave it in the car. That way if there is a problem, I can truthfully say I do not have one. It is a license to conceal, which is a "privilege" in the state of Washington. It is myright as an American citizen to carry and bear arms openly. I don't need papers for a RIGHT.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Oak Harbor, WA
    Posts
    44

    Post imported post

    From a long time and not so long ago, Washington resident...

    I need to get a copy of that special US Constitution, you know, the one with Amendment 1.5

    That little known amendment, tucked between Freedom of speech, freedom of religeon, etc. and that oft ignored one about the right to keep and bear arms, or something like that...

    You know the amendment I'm talking about right?? Amendment 1.5 - The right of the people to "feel safe, cuddly and happy in a world where there's always a rainbow and sunshine".

    Last time I checked, not a single person in America had a "RIGHT" to feel safe. I make myself feel safe by carrying a weapon... wait... isn't that Amendment number two?? What a conundrum I just created... holy crap!

  7. #7
    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Snohomish, Washington, USA
    Posts
    684

    Post imported post

    Okay, I've added this one to my Training Bulletins pocket pamphlet.

    http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/open_carry_training_bulletins_washington.pdf


  8. #8
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    John Hardin wrote:
    Okay, I've added this one to my Training Bulletins pocket pamphlet.

    http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/open_carry_training_bulletins_washington.pdf
    Might want to wait a couple of more days, I am going to meet up with j2l3 monday if all works as planned, and give him a copy of the original to scan, so we have the complete document, not my transcription.

    Glad to give you something to add to the collection.

    Finally got online with my Fedora laptop! Yay!

    Steve

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Everett, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,339

    Post imported post

    Fedora? yuck. Glad ya got it going though.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  10. #10
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    joeroket wrote:
    Fedora? yuck. Glad ya got it going though.
    Let me reprhase this;

    "After spending a month trying various Linux distros (Kubuntu, Ubuntu, and Fedora Core) I finally found one that after I installed by hand everything that should have been installed on the DVD I found at the library, I finally got online." Suffice it to say I am a Linux newbie. A friend of mine is trying to get me prepped for GenToo on the new laptop I hope to buy in a few months. At any rate I am not using Micro$oft Windoze. Fedora, Firefox and OpenOffice, gotta love having an M$ free computer. Even my last Mac had some stuff from the Evil Ones on it...

    Steve

  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Everett, Washington, USA
    Posts
    3,339

    Post imported post

    sv_libertarian wrote:
    joeroket wrote:
    Fedora? yuck. Glad ya got it going though.
    Let me reprhase this;

    "After spending a month trying various Linux distros (Kubuntu, Ubuntu, and Fedora Core) I finally found one that after I installed by hand everything that should have been installed on the DVD I found at the library, I finally got online." Suffice it to say I am a Linux newbie. A friend of mine is trying to get me prepped for GenToo on the new laptop I hope to buy in a few months. At any rate I am not using Micro$oft Windoze. Fedora, Firefox and OpenOffice, gotta love having an M$ free computer. Even my last Mac had some stuff from the Evil Ones on it...

    Steve
    Haha Roger that. I know Linux can real be a pain in the rear. Personally I like Ubuntu for desktops. Gentoo is one I have not run yet. Maybe I will have to load another drive and load it up.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

  12. #12
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    joeroket wrote
    Haha Roger that. I know Linux can real be a pain in the rear. Personally I like Ubuntu for desktops. Gentoo is one I have not run yet. Maybe I will have to load another drive and load it up.
    Ubuntu and Kubuntu both gave me fits, because they seemed designed for people who did not want to use the functionality of Linux, just a quick shiny desktop and some office features. I gave up on Kubuntu finally because it was missing so much of what I wanted and went down to the library and found they had a Fedora book handy. Installed Fedora, a friend showed me how to compile the kernel. I installed and configured ndiswrapper (that was a chore) then finally found out I had no dhcp software. Downloaded from another computer and installed that, figured out that for some reason Kwifi manager wasn't working right, started wifi manually through the terminal, and here I am.

    Now if I can just get my cursor from jumping all over the place and stop hijacking the back/forward features of the buttons I'll be happy. BTW to keep this OT, I was OCing on my boat while doing some of this.

    Steve

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Here and There, Washington, USA
    Posts
    150

    Post imported post

    I agree that the "right to feel safe" part is not sensible, how can you control people's feelings. Can I have the cops charged with violating my "right to not be annoyed," or my "right not to have my time wasted?"

    In section III.B.2 how does documenting it help, assuming I'm going to refuse to show ID unless they choose to arrest me? Because up to that point I'm not required to identify myself, right?

  14. #14
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    Sitrep wrote:
    I agree that the "right to feel safe" part is not sensible, how can you control people's feelings. Can I have the cops charged with violating my "right to not be annoyed," or my "right not to have my time wasted?"

    In section III.B.2 how does documenting it help, assuming I'm going to refuse to show ID unless they choose to arrest me? Because up to that point I'm not required to identify myself, right?
    I've been wrestling with the meaning of "the public's right to feel safe" and wonder why it does not include me, the person carrying a gun for personal protection. Certaintly I feel safer with it and I am part of the public.

    That is a pretty twisted statement, and could be bent to many meanings. I am going to have to ask the Olympia Attorney to clarify this.

    Walked around downtown yesterday OCing and saw three cops, at least two I know saw me, no problems. Hung out in two different parks reading a book, or going down to my dinghy and retriving gas can. Got at least two people looking at my gun then me, but no problems again.

    Steve

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Federal Way, Washington, USA
    Posts
    63

    Post imported post

    A scanned copy would be very good. Anyone live nearby sv_libertarian that could do this for him?

  16. #16
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Olympia, WA, ,
    Posts
    3,201

    Post imported post

    wqbang wrote:
    A scanned copy would be very good. Anyone live nearby sv_libertarian that could do this for him?
    Should be getting this taken care of today...

    Steve

  17. #17
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    Wow, kudos to sv_libertarian for his efforts. Very well written TD. Nice cooperation between a motivated lawabiding and armed citizen and the local PD. We need more of that all acrossthe land.

    I don't understand the trepidation about the public's rights and needs. That's not a big deal (unless it gets abused somehow). Gotta have something in there about it. The public counts for something.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •