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Thread: Ejected from Burlington Sportsmans Warehouse

  1. #1
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    So Itookthe tripupto the BurlingtonSportsmans Warehouse today onmy motorcycle to pick up some new duck decoys and see the place having never been in one before. Imade my way over to the gun counter to see what they had and after talking to a couple employees and looking at a couple guns I was approached by a "manager type" who asked if I had checked my gun before I came in ( this was kind of a confusing question becauseof course I had, I check to make sure it's loaded and operational every morning before donning it ) I asked "what do you mean, check it?" He said all guns must be checked in at customer service to make sure they are unloaded before they can becarried in the store.I asked "Whatis the point of carrying an unloaded gun?" He said "well you can't have a loaded gun in here you will need to go out to your car and unload it and leave the ammo in the car before coming in. I tried to explain that I had ridden a motorcycle and had no place to leave the ammo and he just insisted that I"cannot be in here with that." I decided to leave buton my way out the door I asked an employee if the general manager was in, she replied that he was out untilTuesday but gave me his office phone number to leave a message which I did upon reaching the parking lot.

    My message was

    "Hello,myname isAaron. Ivisited your store today,Sunday,to shop for some new decoys. I work at Sam's gun shop, which as you may know is the largest gun shop and shooting range in Snohomish county where I have referred dozens of customers to your establishment as I was underthe impression you offer a good selection at decent priceswith good customer service. I am sorry tosay I have been proven wrong on this notion as I was just ejected from your store formy carrying of a handgun in a safe and legal manner. Ifit is indeed your policyto prevent customers legally carrying firearms on your premises I would find that extremely unfortunate. As we are in similar businesses I understand how such an anti-gun policycan be detrimental tosales as it would alienate an enormous percentage ofyour clientele. If you wish to discuss the matter with me or clear up any confusion please call me at ------------ I hope sincerely that this isnot truly your policy as it was not posted at your entrance in accordance with state lawit may be simply one of your employees acting erroneously and I look forward to hearing from you on the matter.




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    Wow, that's a shame. I've shopped in the Burlington Sportsman's Warehouse on quite a few occasions. (Haven't OC'd there yet, though.)

    I hope you get a prompt response; I'd like to hear exactly what their policy is, so I can make my decision about whether or not to continue spending money there. And to think I was planning on buying a new gun safe from them...

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    Agent 47 wrote:
    He said all guns must be checked in at customer service to make sure they are unloaded before they can becarried in the store.
    Wow. This seems to be a recurring problem at SW. They do have a policy of checking your firearm in when you enter, but not the one you’re carrying holstered. You only need to check it in if you intend to fit a holster for it or take it out for some other reason. What happens is that the employees don’t listen to or read the entire policy when it’s presented to them, and only know one little piece of it.

    The very same thing happened to me at the SW in Lacy. A manager type told me I had to check my pistol, I told him that it was perfectly safe in the holster and I wouldn’t be taking it out. He seemed fine with that and walked away.

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    I would call corporate and lodge a formal complaint. You only have to check your firearm if you are trying to find a holster. As long as it remains holstered you do not have to check it nor do you even have to say anything to anyone. I am sure that Jim can vouch for this. Obviously this manager does not know the rules he tries to enforce, which doesn't surprise me one bit.

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    I have open carried at this very same SW without issue.

    I proceeded to the Customer Service counter and checked my 38 S&W Revolver as I was going to have it fitted for a Holster. I was Open Carrying my Taurus PT111 on my belt.

    I know they saw the Taurus as there were comments made about it. The person that helped me at the gun county was a Taurus fan.

    Like as been said by others, I think you got a know it all lower level manager that didn't pay attention to the rules.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Agent 47 wrote:
    I hope sincerely that this isnot truly your policy as it was not posted at your entrance in accordance with state lawit may be simply one of your employees acting erroneously and I look forward to hearing from you on the matter.


    Is this really a requirement in WA State Law, that a sign be posted prohibiting firearms?

    I know some States require posting if the establishment does not want firearms on their premises and those signs carry the weight of law when you carry anyway. I am unaware of any signage requirement in WA.



    On a side note, I have OC'd in this store as well and had no issues. Not in the gun department or at the checkout stand. Must me a case of DAAMTKIA (Dumb Assed Assistant Manager That Knows it All).

    Hey, if you really want to start a $h!t$torm with this store ask the manager if he got background checks on all his employees that handle guns. They hadn't done that yet when they opened up for business. Now THAT is required by State Law.

    RCW 9.41.110 (5) (b) (b) A dealer shall require every employee who may sell a firearm in the course of his or her employment to undergo fingerprinting and a background check. An employee must be eligible to possess a firearm, and must not have been convicted of a crime that would make the person ineligible for a concealed pistol license, before being permitted to sell a firearm. Every employee shall comply with requirements concerning purchase applications and restrictions on delivery of pistols that are applicable to dealers.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    amlevin wrote:
    Agent 47 wrote:
    I hope sincerely that this isnot truly your policy as it was not posted at your entrance in accordance with state lawit may be simply one of your employees acting erroneously and I look forward to hearing from you on the matter.


    Is this really a requirement in WA State Law, that a sign be posted prohibiting firearms?

    I know some States require posting if the establishment does not want firearms on their premises and those signs carry the weight of law when you carry anyway. I am unaware of any signage requirement in WA.



    On a side note, I have OC'd in this store as well and had no issues. Not in the gun department or at the checkout stand. Must me a case of DAAMTKIA (Dumb Assed Assistant Manager That Knows it All).

    Hey, if you really want to start a $h!t$torm with this store ask the manager if he got background checks on all his employees that handle guns. They hadn't done that yet when they opened up for business. Now THAT is required by State Law.

    RCW 9.41.110 (5) (b) (b) A dealer shall require every employee who may sell a firearm in the course of his or her employment to undergo fingerprinting and a background check. An employee must be eligible to possess a firearm, and must not have been convicted of a crime that would make the person ineligible for a concealed pistol license, before being permitted to sell a firearm. Every employee shall comply with requirements concerning purchase applications and restrictions on delivery of pistols that are applicable to dealers.

    Yeah, I thought about that after I left the message, I don't know for sure if it is required by law. I guess that comes from reading too many of the other state forums.


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    That sucks. I too have OCd in that store a few times with no incedent. I thought it was perfectly OK. That really sucks. Guess I'll just have to conceal it.

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    I wouldn't conceal. There have been posts in the past about people calling corporate and them saying it is completely legal; they mirror state law. Giving in to their renegade "this is my store, I can tell you what to do" attitude is bogus. I'd wait for the GM to call you back on Tuesday.

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    Whoa - Matt French, VP, Sportsman's Warehouse called mea few weeks ago and told me, inter alia, that Sportsman's Warehouse Inc. had clarified that holstered & legal OC was OK in all their stores.

    I will forward him the link to this discussion thread right now.

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    Anything in writing I can bring in there next sunday and show the "manager type" that kicked me out?

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    Agent 47 wrote:
    Anything in writing I can bring in there next sunday and show the "manager type" that kicked me out?
    VP Matt French just returned my email to say "I will bring this matter to the attention of our store manager. We do permit open carry if it is legal in the state, city, county, etc."

    I think you should be OK to OC by then - if not, politely ask in Columbo fashion, that "hey, wow, uh, y aknow, ah, your Corp. Vice President Matt French was supposed to have taken care of this with you all by now, you know, that Sportsmans Warehouse DOES permit open carry if it is legal. Did this not happen or somthin'?"





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    If only everything could be solved in a Colombo fashion.

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    Just called and talked to the "manager type" I found out is named Dan and is the assistant manager of the hunting department. He was very uncooperative. I asked him to clarify that it is the store policy that guns are not allowed to be carried in the store, he said "thats my understanding of it." he then said "I didn't tell you to leave I just said you need to go out and unload it before coming inside" I replied that as I was On a motorcycle and I had communicated that fact to him while in the store yesterday his directive to not bring the gun in was effectively a directive to leave the store. His reply was " well it's not my problem what you choose to drive." He said he would clarify the laws with the store manager and I could call him back in an hour. I asked if he could just call me when he found out and he said " I'm busy right now just call me back in an hour." About two minutes later I got a call from Rob Campbell the stores general manager whom I had left the message for yesterday. He was friendly and professional, he said that Dan was new and needed to get some remedial training on the stores policy regarding carry. He then said "state law requires that if the gun is open carried and someone sees it it needs to be unloaded so you can show them it's unloaded" Basically stating that according to state law OC is illegal unless it's unloaded. I asked (Colombo style ) "Oh I wasn't aware of that which state law requires that?" He said "it's in the Washington state law, the open carry law." I replied "Are you referring to RCW 9.41.270?" He kinda mumbled "yeah" I said actually open carry is perfectly legal in this state and as per an E-mail I got last night from Matt French Sportsmans Warehouse mirrors state law on the subject. Rob Then said "Yes it is legal and we make no rules prohibiting it, absolutely OK" I asked to clarify "So I will not have any further problems with this?" and he replied "Absolutely, I will have a talk with my managers regarding this and I hope to see you in here soon." I then said "I am glad to hear it as I work in a the same business as you I understand how poorly such an anti gun rule can reflect on you" He said " Yes absolutely we don't want to come across as anti gun." I said "good, well then I will try and make it back in soon to pick up some decoys." He thanked me and we said goodbye.All in all a good conversation. I was able to educate him on OC and he will in turn be educating hisemployees. I will be going back there for supplies and I willOC when I do.

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    Awesome job, Agent 47. Who knew tossing around the word French could actually do some good! haha. Ok, that was just wrong.

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Good work Aaron!

    And G27, that was hilarious... but terrible at the same time. :P
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    Aaron,

    I called and spoke with Dan first thing when I arrived at work. I mentioned the article to him and before I could ask who it was, he sheepishly said Yeah it was me.

    I make no appology for Dan but feel the need to give a little insight. Being new and coming in from out of state put him at a disadvantage. I know Dan as a friend and former co-worker. He is usually pretty easy going but like all of us can "get his dander up"

    Dan told me that they were having a training discussion about this episode when I called. He also said the Mgr had him go out and read the sign. Tomorrow, I will post a p;icture of the corporate sign for all to see.

    Jim

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    Jim, I was actually going to come by today and say hi. Unfortantely I guess a majority of power was out in town and the store looked closed? I guess I'll do it tomorrow if I get the chance.

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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    Dan told me that they were having a training discussion about this episode when I called. He also said the Mgr had him go out and read the sign. Tomorrow, I will post a p;icture of the corporate sign for all to see.

    Jim
    Is this a sign pertaining to carry in the store posted at the entrance? I looked carefully for any signs when I went in and didn't see anything, what does it say?

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    I am guessing at the exact wording, but will try. The sign at our store is posted on the left side of the right hand door inside the foyer.

    "For customer safety, all long guns should be unloaded and have the action open and be checked at customer service. Handguns need not be checked unless they are to be UNHOLSTERED for fitting a new holster."

    I am probably wrong in some part, but will post a picture tomorrow evening.

    Jim

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    G27,

    Yeah the power was out until 6:30 pm. Someone hit a power pole and then the transformer burned up. We were open but on auxillary power. Damn that gen set is noisy. Business was S L O W, and at 7:00 pm we stopped letting customers in and the ones already in the store were allowed to finish their shopping. They called it a "Soft closing" Stop in tomorrow, I am there from noon 'til 8 pm.

    Jim

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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    I am guessing at the exact wording, but will try. The sign at our store is posted on the left side of the right hand door inside the foyer.

    "For customer safety, all long guns should be unloaded and have the action open and be checked at customer service. Handguns need not be checked unless they are to be UNHOLSTERED for fitting a new holster."

    I am probably wrong in some part, but will post a picture tomorrow evening.

    Jim
    That's pretty close. I was in the Lacey SW this afternoon and read it. Was gonna shoot a picture, but left the cellphone in the truck.

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    Being new and coming in from out of state is no excuse. He should already know that SW policy mirrors state laws. And if he just transferred into this state, as a manager of a store that SELLS FIREARMS, he bloody well better KNOW the laws of this state.

    Ignorance is no excuse no matter how ignorate a person may be.

    I travel down to the Federal Way Sportsman's Whorehouse at least once a month. (that's a term of endearment since Inever seem get out of there without spending at least $100) I've been going there since the second day they were open. Before that I was going to the one in Silverdale.Ialways open carry thereand so far no one has ever said anything negative to me about it.

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    I actually went and spoke with Jim today. What a pleasure it was. We sat there and talked for a bit and he explained about the whole situation with Dan, the manager at Burlington. The guy feels really bad about jumping to the gun and as long as he admits his mistake and we all move on I see no reason to further this issue. People are informed all the time, it's the people that learn from their mistakes and apologize that are truly good.

    Attached is a picture of the door that is located outside of Sportman's. This should be pretty much on every door in Washington. I think it is pretty clear that firearms are allowed as long as they remain in the holster.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    Good picture G27. The relevant part is even underlined! There's really no excuse for a manager to be ignorant of that.
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