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Thread: Where in Washington is OC legal?

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    I am new to this and I am looking to be pointed in the right direction. I am sure there may already be a post about this, but where is it legal to OC and where isnt it? I am just 21 and would love to have more info to back me up in the case of an altercation somwhere. If there is already another post about this topic, please point me in the right direction. Thanks

    MC

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    Pretty much, anywhere you can carry, concealed or otherwise, you can LEGALLY open carry. So obviously, no OC at schools, courthouses, bars, etc, because you can't carry there, period. Whether or not people are going to accept that open carry and allow you onto their private property is another matter. No city or town can legally pass an ordinance banning open carry or any other type of carry, due to state wide preemption being in place.

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    Anywhere you can legally carry a firearm in WA, you can legally OC. For a list of prohibited places see:

    http://nwcdl.org/Washington/waccp.html

    There is a list of prohibited places on that page.

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    hyperspeed02 wrote:
    I am new to this and I am looking to be pointed in the right direction. I am sure there may already be a post about this, but where is it legal to OC and where isnt it? I am just 21 and would love to have more info to back me up in the case of an altercation somwhere. If there is already another post about this topic, please point me in the right direction. Thanks

    MC
    Welcome aboard. As you stated, there is a post on where it is legal to OC, in fact a few minutes worth of reading would have answered most of your questions.

    You can OC anywhere CC is legal. Suggest you read the trainingbulletins posted on this site.

    Where in Washington do you live? Most Western Washington agencies are well aware of the legality of OC. Some put up with it more than others, but they know what is up. Should you be stopped by a cop, I would suggest that you keep your cool, keep your hands where they can see them and follow their instructions. Follow up a stop with a complaint to the PD that stopped you. Again, keep your cool. As long as you were in the right, they are wrong. Many of us have had to go through this at least once.

    What do you plan to carry?

    Steve

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    compmanio365 wrote:
    Pretty much, anywhere you can carry, concealed or otherwise, you can LEGALLY open carry. So obviously, no OC at schools, courthouses, bars, etc, because you can't carry there, period. Whether or not people are going to accept that open carry and allow you onto their private property is another matter. No city or town can legally pass an ordinance banning open carry or any other type of carry, due to state wide preemption being in place.
    Although, as I read it IF you have a CPL you can carry in school zones and on school premesis just not within a school building if you are picking up or dropping off a student.

    RCW 9.41.280

    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

    (a) Any firearm;

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

    (e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;

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    You're right. But I would strongly advise not to carry openly on school property, even if you are just picking up/dropping off your kid. That is just reckless and stupid IMHO. You are just asking for trouble.

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    I plan to carry a Glock .40 smith & wesson.

    Thanks for reply.

    So there arent certian counties that restrict open carry and certian ones that permit OC? thats what I was interested about. So open carry is legal in most stores? I dont know how often I will OC but I know that it is my right so I just want to make sure I have all the correct information. Thanks again!

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    All firearm laws are made at the state level except for the discharge of them. Any county, city, or whatnot that tries to make their own laws are in the error and they are illegal. If you were brought before a judge he would throw the charges out... no questions asked. I'd read up on the RCW and get familiar with firearm laws before actually doing it. Jumping into it without knowing about it will most likely make you uneasy and unprepared if you were to have an encounter with any LEO's.

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    hyperspeed02 wrote:
    I plan to carry a Glock .40 smith & wesson.

    Thanks for reply.

    So there arent certian counties that restrict open carry and certian ones that permit OC? thats what I was interested about. So open carry is legal in most stores? I dont know how often I will OC but I know that it is my right so I just want to make sure I have all the correct information. Thanks again!
    OpenCarry is *legal* in stores, however, being "private" businesses they do have the right to tell you to leave if you are OpenCarrying and you must leave. That is the only legal restriction. Unless that business is one of those where carrying at all is illegal.

    Due to state pre-emption for all matters firearms related (except selling and discharging), no city or county can create any laws forbidding OpenCarry.



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    G27 wrote:
    All firearm laws are made at the state level except for the discharge of them.
    Discharge AND some sales (per 9.41.300 (3)(a)&(b))

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    gregma wrote:
    G27 wrote:
    All firearm laws are made at the state level except for the discharge of them.
    Discharge AND sales (per 9.41.300 (3)(a)&(b))
    Not all sales. Local governments can only restrict firearms sales within so many feet of a school AND then only if the store has a storefront that is open for business AND advertises that they sell firearms.

    They can also restrict the sale of firearms in any "zone" where the same restriction is placed on any other business (which means the county is regulating business in general, not specifically firearms sales) in that zone.

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    sean-1286 wrote:
    gregma wrote:
    G27 wrote:
    All firearm laws are made at the state level except for the discharge of them.
    Discharge AND sales (per 9.41.300 (3)(a)&(b))
    Not all sales. Local governments can only restrict firearms sales within so many feet of a school AND then only if the store has a storefront that is open for business AND advertises that they sell firearms.

    They can also restrict the sale of firearms in any "zone" where the same restriction is placed on any other business (which means the county is regulating business in general, not specifically firearms sales) in that zone.
    You are correct. I amended by post to say "some sales". Thanks for the correction!

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    Don't forget that it's also required to have a CPL if you carry in a vehicle, whether openly or concealed (pursuant to RCW 9.41.050 Subsection 2(a)). (IANAL)
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
    KF7GEA

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    Agent 47 wrote:
    compmanio365 wrote:
    Pretty much, anywhere you can carry, concealed or otherwise, you can LEGALLY open carry. So obviously, no OC at schools, courthouses, bars, etc, because you can't carry there, period. Whether or not people are going to accept that open carry and allow you onto their private property is another matter. No city or town can legally pass an ordinance banning open carry or any other type of carry, due to state wide preemption being in place.
    Although, as I read it IF you have a CPL you can carry in school zones and on school premesis just not within a school building if you are picking up or dropping off a student.

    RCW 9.41.280

    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

    (a) Any firearm;

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

    (e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;
    Agent 47,

    I fail to see where in this law you quoted that I can not enter a building while picking up or dropping off a student and carrying a gun?



    3(1) exempts any person who has been issued a license..... while picking up or dropping off a student.

    Please show me where it says, "so long as he stays on the pavement and doesn't go inside a door"?

    Having worked at a school, I can tell you MANY parents pick up their students in the classroom, in the office, the gym, the nurse's office, etc.

    You can't really believe that this law makes it so that a kindergartner can no longer be escorted by his parents (armed, obviously), from his classroom to the family car, can you?

    As far as I read, so long as you are there to pick up or drop off a student, you can carry anywhere on the facility. The only question then becomes, how long is a reasonable duration for picking up purposes? If you show up 30 minutes early and have to wait around, or the basketball game goes overtime, do you then have to return to your car... or, can you watch the game, which is a de-facto requirement of picking up the student?

    IANAL

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    joshmmm wrote:
    Agent 47 wrote:
    compmanio365 wrote:
    Pretty much, anywhere you can carry, concealed or otherwise, you can LEGALLY open carry. So obviously, no OC at schools, courthouses, bars, etc, because you can't carry there, period. Whether or not people are going to accept that open carry and allow you onto their private property is another matter. No city or town can legally pass an ordinance banning open carry or any other type of carry, due to state wide preemption being in place.
    Although, as I read it IF you have a CPL you can carry in school zones and on school premesis just not within a school building if you are picking up or dropping off a student.

    RCW 9.41.280

    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

    (a) Any firearm;

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

    (e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;
    Agent 47,

    I fail to see where in this law you quoted that I can not enter a building while picking up or dropping off a student and carrying a gun?



    3(1) exempts any person who has been issued a license..... while picking up or dropping off a student.

    Please show me where it says, "so long as he stays on the pavement and doesn't go inside a door"?

    Having worked at a school, I can tell you MANY parents pick up their students in the classroom, in the office, the gym, the nurse's office, etc.

    You can't really believe that this law makes it so that a kindergartner can no longer be escorted by his parents (armed, obviously), from his classroom to the family car, can you?

    As far as I read, so long as you are there to pick up or drop off a student, you can carry anywhere on the facility. The only question then becomes, how long is a reasonable duration for picking up purposes? If you show up 30 minutes early and have to wait around, or the basketball game goes overtime, do you then have to return to your car... or, can you watch the game, which is a de-facto requirement of picking up the student?

    IANAL
    He did not quote that part.

    (5) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    3(e) is where it exempts a person who is picking up or dropping off a student from the requirements of section 1 (in its entirety--it does not state "unless....section 5...").

    Section 1 is the part that deals with the fact that firearms are not permitted at schools.

    Section 3(e) then modified section 1 and says it does not apply to cpl holders picking up or dropping off students.

    Section 5 seems to be randomly thrown in there--I never noticed it before. However, I really wonder if section 5 is worthless or if it has some weight.

    Section 2 lays out the penalties for violating section 1. No section lays out any penalties whatsoever for violating section 5. It is a random, orphan clause that appears to do nothing.

    Any thoughts on that?

    So basically, it appears to me that section 5 is supposed to make it clearer what they meant by section 1. But 3(e) exempts cpl holders, while picking up/dropping off a student, from being prosecuted for a violation of section 1. In order to be prosecuted for a violation of this entire 9.41.280, one would have to see section 2, where it spells out the penalties for violating section 1--it fails to mention any penalty whatsoever for violating section 5... Strange anomaly...

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    joshmmm wrote:
    3(e) is where it exempts a person who is picking up or dropping off a student from the requirements of section 1 (in its entirety--it does not state "unless....section 5...").

    Section 1 is the part that deals with the fact that firearms are not permitted at schools.

    Section 3(e) then modified section 1 and says it does not apply to cpl holders picking up or dropping off students.

    Section 5 seems to be randomly thrown in there--I never noticed it before. However, I really wonder if section 5 is worthless or if it has some weight.

    Section 2 lays out the penalties for violating section 1. No section lays out any penalties whatsoever for violating section 5. It is a random, orphan clause that appears to do nothing.

    Any thoughts on that?

    So basically, it appears to me that section 5 is supposed to make it clearer what they meant by section 1. But 3(e) exempts cpl holders, while picking up/dropping off a student, from being prosecuted for a violation of section 1. In order to be prosecuted for a violation of this entire 9.41.280, one would have to see section 2, where it spells out the penalties for violating section 1--it fails to mention any penalty whatsoever for violating section 5... Strange anomaly...
    Section 5 is pretty clear. Stating except as provided in sections 3b,c,f,and h is pretty clear that unless it is specified in those 4 subsections firearms are not allowed in a school building. It does not say except as provided in 3e.

    Section 5 modifies the entire code section and spells out the exceptions explicitly. Section 3e only modifies subsection 1.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    All "nitpicking" aside, I would strongly recommend that one DOES NOT open carry into a school building while dropping off or picking up a student. I guarantee that someone seeing a gun, without a badge close to it, will "defecate a masonry building unit". Lockdown, helicopters (both News and Police), SWAT, and a screwed up class schedule for the rest of the day. There is nothing that prompts administrative incontinence quicker than the sight of a gun that is not being carried by a LEO.



    Then of course, if you have nothing to do for several months, go ahead. You and your attorney will have plenty of time to discuss the law and the wisdom of your actions.

    If schools loose control of their bowels over a box of shotgun shells in the possession of an Olympic Shooter (also high school student) can you imagine what their response would be if someone showed up at the classroom door to pick up their kid while sporting a "big ugly gun"?
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Section (1) only pertains to schoolpremises and school zones It is clear that they intend to differentiate between school premises ( which I take to mean school property ) and then they enact a stricter law when it comes to the inside of the actual school building. They provide exemptions for people in possession of a CPL under a very narrow set of circumstances to enter school grounds but they draw the line at going inside the building.

    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

    (e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070, or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060, while picking up or dropping off a student;



    (5) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.

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    If you're going to a school, you should conceal it. That's common sense. If it's conceal, it shouldn't be a problem at all. End of discussion.

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    [color=#000080][color=#000000]grrrrr dang formating

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    [size=1]Good grief, y'all, why not just post the entire thing?

    RCW 9.41.280:
    (1) It is unlawful for a person to carry onto, or to possess on, public or private elementary or secondary school premises, school-provided transportation, or areas of facilities while being used exclusively by public or private schools:

    (a) Any firearm;

    (b) Any other dangerous weapon as defined in RCW 9.41.250


    (c) Any device commonly known as "nun-chu-ka sticks", consisting of two or more lengths of wood, metal, plastic, or similar substance connected with wire, rope, or other means;

    (d) Any device, commonly known as "throwing stars", which are multi-pointed, metal objects designed to embed upon impact from any aspect; or

    (e) Any air gun, including any air pistol or air rifle, designed to propel a BB, pellet, or other projectile by the discharge of compressed air, carbon dioxide, or other gas.


    RCW 9.41.280:
    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

    (a) Any student or employee of a private military academy when on the property of the academy;

    (b) Any person engaged in military, law enforcement, or school district security activities;

    (c) Any person who is involved in a convention, showing, demonstration, lecture, or firearms safety course authorized by school authorities in which the firearms of collectors or instructors are handled or displayed;

    (d) Any person while the person is participating in a firearms or air gun competition approved by the school or school district;

    (e) Any person in possession of a pistol who has been issued a license under RCW 9.41.070
    or is exempt from the licensing requirement by RCW 9.41.060while picking up or dropping off a student;

    (f) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age legally in possession of a firearm or dangerous weapon that is secured within an attended vehicle or concealed from view within a locked unattended vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school;

    (g) Any nonstudent at least eighteen years of age who is in lawful possession of an unloaded firearm, secured in a vehicle while conducting legitimate business at the school; or

    (h) Any law enforcement officer of the federal, state, or local government agency.



    RCW 9.41.280:
    (5) Except as provided in subsection (3)(b), (c), (f), and (h) of this section, firearms are not permitted in a public or private school building.


    Okay, here we go...

    joshmmm wrote:
    I fail to see where in this law you quoted that I can not enter a building while picking up or dropping off a student and carrying a gun?


    Please show me where it says, "so long as he stays on the pavement and doesn't go inside a door"?
    I'm not a lawyer, never wanted to be one, never even played one on TV, but it seems pretty simple to me. Since most all buildings have a door(s) or at least a doorway, simply having a Washington State CPL does NOT allow you to enter ANY school building. Which means pretty much you can't go any further than the pavement/sidewalk.


    joshmmm wrote:
    As far as I read, so long as you are there to pick up or drop off a student, you can carry anywhere on the facility
    .
    I read further and it seems you were incorrect.




    joshmmm wrote:
    Having worked at a school, I can tell you MANY parents pick up their students in the classroom, in the office, the gym, the nurse's office, etc.

    You can't really believe that this law makes it so that a kindergartner can no longer be escorted by his parents (armed, obviously), from his classroom to the family car, can you?


    As unbelievable as it seems, I now believe it.

    At first I was questioning Section (5). It includes (3)(f) which only allows weapons inside a car. I wondered if they were planning for a non-student over 18 to drive a car INSIDE a building. I wondered if including (3)(f) was a mistake? Did they in fact originally mean to say (3)(e) and the (f) was a typo.

    However upon reflection (I tried to edit my previous post but the quotes all went haywire) I now see what they mean. All parents, being non-students, are lawfully"allowed" to leave their sidearms in their family car when they escort their child(ren) from the classroom to their family car. How generous of them.

    This is a matter that needs to be address in the legislature since it's more dangerous for a parent to disarm themselves and thereby leave their unattended firearm inside an unattended vehicle in order to enter a building with their children than it is to carry their firearm with them.

    Has no one noticed that of all of the school shooting worldwide not a single one was committed by a parent of a child in that school?






    [size=1]

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    SO what about the whole branishing law? cant they get you for that?

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    hyperspeed02 wrote:
    SO what about the whole branishing law? cant they get you for that?
    Does not apply to a holstered weapon.

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