Hampton Roads - OC reports

went to noodles and company lynnhaven a marine came up to me and thanked me for exercising my 2nd amendment rights. i thanked him for his service. he was from texas and i apologized that it wasnt an oc friendly state lol

I saw a Unicorn yesterday around 5:30PM at the 7-11 at Princess Anne and Lynnhaven Parkway. He was getting in his car and I was on my way to work (which is why I wasn't also carrying) so only had time to thank him for exercising his rights!

a very very sketchy looking guy at walmart asked if i was carrying a taurus. told him it was a s&w and said he had a taurus that looked just like it. luckily the convo wasnt too long since i was at the check out line and he was still shopping

Had another citizen open carrying get in line behind me while I was OCing at Farm Fresh (Independence and Buckner rd) this evening. I thanked him for exercising his rights and then I was done and on my way out the door.

encounter at LynnHaven Mall

Well had my first "incident" this evening at Lynnhaven Mall. It is strange that no matter how many times you think you have rehearsed situations in your head ahead of time, you always look back and think of how you could have said this or that or in a better way. That said, I know my response wasn't perfect so I am willing to take all suggestions on things I should have said and done different. On with the story.....

So, I am making a return at Dick's sporting goods and I park outside one of their dedicated entrances but since I am in my club cab truck I park halfway out in the parking lot. I am walking through the lot to Dick's and just before crossing the street to the entrance one of the mall security cruisers pulls up and the driver asks to talk to me for a moment. He wants to know if I am law enforcement and I told him I am not sure what that has to do with my current activity. He states that if I am not LEO I can't have "that" on mall property. (referring to my firearm). I told him I was unaware of that and my destination was Dick's and I Open Carry there all the time. He proceeds to say the doors are posted and so is their website. I told him I thought he was mistaken because I have checked Dick's doors carefully and they are not posted. He again states that the entrances to the malls are posted and it is against their code of conduct. I assure him I will not pass beyond any of their signs but go directly into Dick's and leave. He says he would prefer I secure the weapon in my vehicle and "ADVISES" me that I am in violation of the mall code of conduct. I told him I have not seen a code of conduct and what exactly am I doing to violate it? He helpfully gives me two copies of the card (see photo) and I tell him I will pass the info on to others on the local internet sites. He thanks me. He again "advises" me that I am not allowed to have that on Mall Property. I ask him if the mall owns Dick's property or if they actually own the property. He confirms Dick's owns the land but the mall owns the parking lot I am standing in and I can't have my weapon there. I tell him that I don't believe that me going to my vehicle and removing/handling a weapon that is currently secured in a retention holder is a wise move but I will do so to comply with his "Advise". He then, states that it can't even be in the vehicle on mall property.
As I read the card I confess to him that I am confused because there is no mention of firearms and nothing see on the card do I appear to be violating. He points to a line that says "Any activity that threatens the well being of the property." I assure him I will not harm the property in any way. He then says that is not what I am in violation of and so I ask him what in the code I am violating and he states the last bullet - "any activity whose nature would tend to disrupt the legitimate business of the property or its tenants." I ask him how I am in violation of that and inform him that I have a recorder running because his answers are all over the place. He then states that I can not record our conversation and I assured him I most certainly can. Under Virginia law I can record any conversation I am a party to with or without his consent. He informs me he knows Virginia law and drops his objection/lie. I ask him for his name and ID number and he provided me with a copy of the card attached. I asked if the 757-340-5636 number would be the one for mall admin offices and he confirms it and lets me know they are only available from 8-5 Monday thru Friday. I Will be placing a call to both the administration and operations departments (1 and 3 on the menu options) tomorrow and file a complaint against the sergeant (that is what he called himself) for misconduct in the form of lying (saying things I couldn't do that he later admitted he knew were legal) and for making statements on what was allowed and where and providing proof in the form of a hand out card that contradicted what he claimed. Unprofessional at least.

Reply to Wreawrick's encounter

Well by coincidence I have open carried twice to Macy’s at Lynn haven this week without incident. I have also open carried before to the JC Penny’s also without incident. However, I did notice the mall security truck circling around the parking lot quite a bit. One of the times the mall cop had a real cop there with a car pulled over or something. Anyhow, I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the same guy darting through the parking lot every minute. He is probably new and on an adrenalin rush from all of his “perceived” power and authority. I don’t think that contacting mall security or management will get you too far. I do think if you contact the manager at Dick’s or perhaps the head office at Dick’s and tell them how the mall cop is chasing off customers that it might get a response. You could also contact the management or head offices for the other anchor stores there which don't ban weapons. I am fairly certain that he is overstepping his authority by harassing you in the parking lot of a store which doesn't ban guns. BTW, what did this guy look like?

Recent OC experiences

Haven’t posted here in a while so I will list the places I have carried the last month or 2. I have gone several times to the VA Bch and Norfolk BJ's and Lynn haven and Sam's Circle Walmarts without incident. Well without any OC related incidents. I did have 2 of the night stockers in Chesapeake who were expressing their displeasure that my wife was with someone of my demographic amongst themselves and mumbling how I was gonna get my @#$% kicked coming around here like dat. I just laughed and told my wife that this @#$% kicking has been threatened/ predicted by such people 1000 times and has still yet to occur. Anyhow I know that I have to just turn the other cheek to such nonsense while carrying.

About 1 month ago I saw an old couple at the Walmart market on Holland road and the woman was the one open carrying protecting her ailing husband. It was a beautiful sight. About a week ago I saw a guy open carrying in the Lynn haven Walmart parking lot. He said that he was from Georgia and had to carry that way as VA didn’t honor his permit. I told him that I had a permit but still preferred OC; he agreed.

More recently I went to the Princess Anne Rosses, Office Max and Kohl’s without incident other than one of the Kohl’s cashiers asking if I worked at the courthouse. I guess that many people still assume that you must need a job related reason to OC.

Question for San Diego

sandiego said:

a very very sketchy looking guy at walmart asked if i was carrying a taurus. told him it was a s&w and said he had a taurus that looked just like it. luckily the convo wasnt too long since i was at the check out line and he was still shopping

Click to expand...

Which Walmart was this? Also what did this very very sketchy guy look like?

Mongoose72 said:

--snipped-- I did have 2 of the night stockers in Chesapeake who were expressing their displeasure that my wife was with someone of my demographic amongst themselves and mumbling how I was gonna get my @#$% kicked coming around here like dat. I just laughed and told my wife that this @#$% kicking has been threatened/ predicted by such people 1000 times and has still yet to occur. Anyhow I know that I have to just turn the other cheek to such nonsense while carrying.

Click to expand...

Presuming that you refer to an ethnic/racial diversity, that should be reported beginning with the store manager and working your way up the food chain as required. You do carry a digital recorder, right?

I have no tolerance for such.

Mongoose72 said:

Well by coincidence I have open carried twice to Macy’s at Lynn haven this week without incident. I have also open carried before to the JC Penny’s also without incident. However, I did notice the mall security truck circling around the parking lot quite a bit. One of the times the mall cop had a real cop there with a car pulled over or something. Anyhow, I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the same guy darting through the parking lot every minute. He is probably new and on an adrenalin rush from all of his “perceived” power and authority. I don’t think that contacting mall security or management will get you too far. I do think if you contact the manager at Dick’s or perhaps the head office at Dick’s and tell them how the mall cop is chasing off customers that it might get a response. You could also contact the management or head offices for the other anchor stores there which don't ban weapons. I am fairly certain that he is overstepping his authority by harassing you in the parking lot of a store which doesn't ban guns. BTW, what did this guy look like?

Click to expand...

I have the email address for the manger at the Lynnhaven Dick's and am up at this hour to send him an email before heading to work. I also have the corporate relations number for the company and will be calling them once they are manned up. If anyone's activity .... would tend to disrupt the legitimate business of ... it's tenants I would say that "Supervisor" Reardon's did as Dick's does sell firearms and ammunition. THe gentleman in question was Caucasian, brown hair, with a mustache. He never got out of the car so I don't have a height but he was heavy set, definitely north of 200lbs on the scale. He definitely did not like having his authority questioned or being caught making false statements but was professional in tempering his response to repeating a single phrase (montra?) over and over...."Sir, I am advising you that you are in violation of the Mall's code of conduct" ( with emphasis on the word Advising, so it was a scripted/preplanned statement)

here is the email that I sent to the manager of Dick's (manager145@DCSG.com)

Dick's Sporting Goods Manager
Lynnhaven Mall, Virginia Beach, Va.
My name is ***** ******** and on 31 July while attempting to visit your store location I was approached and deterred from entering your store by Valor Security Supervisor Nick Reardon. I am a Honorably Discharged Veteran of the US Military with over 28 years of service and continue to serve our country today as a military contractor. I was dressed in Khaki cargo pants and a white t-shirt with an American Flag on my chest. I was also Openly Carrying a firearm as authorized by the second amendment (2A) of our constitution and within the legal restrictions placed on that right by the commonwealth of Virginia. I have visited your location and the location at town center on many occasions while exercising my 2A right with absolutely no issues, incidents, or problems. I had parked outside the East entrance to your location and was heading directly to your store when stopped by the security officer making his rounds in the parking lot in a marked security vehicle. I was advised that I was in violation of the Mall's code of conduct although my only conduct at this point had been walking 30ft through the parking lot during which I never saw or interacted with another customer. I was unfamiliar with the code of conduct and was told it was posted on all doors and on the mall's website. I explained that I was going to your location and had done so on numerous occasions and unless your doors had been posted within the last week I had NEVER seen a sign on your businesses door that would prohibit my doing business with your store.
Security Officer Reardon then provided me with my own copy of the Mall Code of Conduct printed on a 3x4 card stock. Unfortunately, this just caused more confusion as nothing on this card (attached) seemed to apply to my actions or manner of dress. In at least 3 instances supervisor Reardon made false statements regarding the law and his interpretation of it. I will be following those statements up with the mall operations department. Long story short for your information, that while he admitted Dick's building was not owned by the Mall and he could not enforce your business to accept the Mall's view on Legally armed customer's from doing business with your store, the parking lot property was the mall's property and I was advised that I was in violation of the mall code of conduct attempting to get to your store. Specifically, I was told that my actions fell under the

"Any activity whose nature would tend to disrupt the legitimate business of the property or its tenants." bullet on the card.

There were no consequences stated as to what violating the mall code of conduct would result and many people would not care but as a law abiding citizen I felt obligated to defer to those demands even if I believe they were being inappropriately applied and I returned to my vehicle. As the sale of firearms and ammunition is a legitimate part of your business it would seem to me that the only actions disrupting that legitimate business were those of the security officer and wanted to bring this to your attention. It is my hope that you will contact Mall administration and mall security and object to the harassment of your legitimate customers attempting to conduct business with your location by the imposition of rules and regulations in excess of your requirements. I will continue to shop at Dick's as I realize it is not your business policies that are causing the issue here, but I may be limited to only visiting the Town Center location as it is can be accessed without transiting through a parking lot controlled by a third party. I am providing my phone number below if you wish to contact me further on this matter.

Very respectfully,

The 'Visit' page on the website for Lynnhaven Mall:
http://www.lynnhavenmall.com/visit

A direct link to their 'Code of Conduct' (on the bottom of the 'Visit' page):

http://www.lynnhavenmall.com/content/pdf/code_of_conduct.pdf

Examples of specific activities that are prohibited include, but are not limited to:

No firearms or illegal weapons

Click to expand...

I would agree with the previous suggestion that you contact Dicks management... and advise them that Lynnhaven Mall prevented you from entering their store. (Edit: We must have been typing at the same time. Good letter. Hopefully you get a positive response from Dicks).

Mongoose72 said:

Which Walmart was this? Also what did this very very sketchy guy look like?

Click to expand...

walmart by lynnhaven mall. he was caucasian mid to early 30s. he was not openly carrying that i could tell. he had a bandana on his head and wasnt very "clean" looking. at first impression i would mistake him for a homeless man

Blk97F150 said:

The 'Visit' page on the website for Lynnhaven Mall:
http://www.lynnhavenmall.com/visit

A direct link to their 'Code of Conduct' (on the bottom of the 'Visit' page):

http://www.lynnhavenmall.com/content/pdf/code_of_conduct.pdf



I would agree with the previous suggestion that you contact Dicks management... and advise them that Lynnhaven Mall prevented you from entering their store. (Edit: We must have been typing at the same time. Good letter. Hopefully you get a positive response from Dicks).

Click to expand...

It sounds like what they have posted at a couple of the entrances to the mall common areas (although not all) but since becoming aware of it I have refrained from Open Carrying in those areas to prevent causing management to close the exisiting loop holes for our CC brethren. (many feel it is still okay to go in and give their money to businesses if they can enter via a door that is not marked even though they "know" what the policy is). I have continued to support those businesses which do not restrict our second ammendment rights that I can access directly without entering the mall - if this employees interpretation is correct I will not even be able to do that!

Also, I can honestly say that I can not remember a time when I "visited" a malls website but the gentleman made it sound like it was expected that I had and to have agreed to all of their rules in advance of daring to come spend my money there. I have been in the area for over 30 years and there was no website the first time I visited that mall.

voice mail left with Lynnhaven Mall General Manager Michael Harris (757-340-5636 opt 1) and spoke with Phil at Dick's Corporate Customer Service (866-677-4771 opt 0) and he is going to look into the situation as well.

Will let all know what I hear back or if I get swept under the rug.

While I was at it I also contacted Valor Security corportate offices and ended up speaking to a nice lady in corporate risk management. (numbers avail via pm is someone really needs them) I expressed my concern for the liability risk both the company and their client could face if their uniformed supervisory personnel as a security authority were informing citizens incorrectly of restrictions that they knew to be false and legal under the local law (Sir, you are not allowed to record this .....)

It makes it difficult to know how much of what the officer states as fact is indeed true when he knowingly states restrictions he knows to be false as being applicable. My concern and contact info is being forwarded to the Director of Security Services at the mall and to the Regional Vice President for the company. Will let you know what falls out of this tree as I shake it.

Blk97F150 said:

The 'Visit' page on the website for Lynnhaven Mall:
http://www.lynnhavenmall.com/visit

A direct link to their 'Code of Conduct' (on the bottom of the 'Visit' page):

http://www.lynnhavenmall.com/content/pdf/code_of_conduct.pdf

Examples of specific activities that are prohibited include, but are not limited to:

No firearms or illegal weapons

Click to expand...

Just a minor gripe on the state of our education system that will not result in any meaningful outcome is:

There is no verb in the bullet on firearms or illegal weapons hence there can be no "activity" Would make more sense if they had the verb "discharge", "brandish", "threaten" etc somewhere in the bullet.

Goes along with the PC term of code of conduct being a list of rules, most of which have no reference to conduct or behavior. I wish we would be judged as our actions warrant vice painted with a broad brush......JMHO

Lynn haven Security

Well I actually had planned on making another trip to Macy’s as they are having a good sale this week. After my experiences last year I no longer go to any store which doesn’t allow OC apart from the occasional foray to Babies-R-US. I am a bit busy right now, but if I get the time I might try to contact the Macy’s manager/ head office to let them know that a mall guard is trying to enforce a defacto gun ban on their property.

If you care to look (sorry I am too busy to get the links) the Lynn haven Mall security has quite a checkered past. One of their guards was accused of some sexual offense by a mall store employee. If I recall he was going in to one of the anchor stores to stalk/ sexually harass one of the employees. I also recall one of the OC guys being confronted by a mall guard in an anchor store for his OC. The guard said “whoa we can’t be having all of that going on up in here.”

Finally, a few years ago a poor guy was concealed carrying when he had a crowd of people start to get involved in an argument his girlfriend was having with another patron. He tucked in his shirt to “go from CC to OC” which almost got him arrested. Anyhow, the mall cops were nowhere to be found during all of this as they were probably hiding in their office until the real cops arrived. Then when the cops were there and everything was safe they came out to give the guy a trespass notice. I am sure that if anything ever happens the good sergeant will speed off until the real cops come. Your protection as always is your own responsibility.

Update Lynn Haven Mall

Just spoke with the mall manager and told him of my concerns; namely avoiding harassment from the mall security in the parking lot. I told him that I OC to the mall’s anchor stores all of the time as they are not anti-gun. I also told him that doing business with Dicks it is necessary to carry in weapons to buy, sell, fix etc. Just on the way to the bank today I saw a patron leaving with a rifle from Dick’s. He said that he was formulating a response to the forum poster (Wrewrick) and that he would address our concerns and clarify their policy.

Who is going to protect us from mall security?

Who is going to protect us from mall security?

Here are a couple of links involving the stellar cast of former Lynn Haven mall security employees. Including Darnell Florence who followed a fellow employee into a dressing room at Dillard’s before exposing himself. He was arrested for indecent exposure and sexual battery.
http://privateofficerbreakingnews.blogspot.com/2010/04/store-security-guard-charged-with-sex.html

Looks like Patience Perez was also employed at Lynn Haven Mall as a security guard. She is the school security guard who had an ongoing affair with one of her 15 year old students. She tried to get him to kill her husband.
http://hamptonroads.com/2013/03/former-school-worker-accused-plot-kill-husband

On a side note: I have never had a problem with OC from law enforcement or normal customers, not even 1 comment has ever been made. Any issue whatsoever has always come from security guards/ Loss prevention. Many of these people have extensive criminal backgrounds and are very, very sketchy looking.