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Thread: DMV license issue question

  1. #1
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    So I recently moved from ashburn to reston this month and just went to the DMV and updated my license. As you all know theres a gun show at dulles expo next weekend and my girlfriend and I were planning on going and purchasing our new babies.

    Well according to the VA state police it says we can not buy unless its been 60 days of issuing the IDs?

    The primary form of identification shall consist of a valid photo-identification form issued by a governmental agency of the Commonwealth or of the prospective purchaser’s home state that denotes the purchaser’s name, sex, date of birth, and address. Where the primary form of identification is a photo-identification issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles, the date of issuance must exceed sixty (60) days from the date of new issue or duplicate issue unless the prospective purchaser also presents a copy of his/her Department of Motor Vehicles driver's record showing that the original date of issue exceeds sixty (60) days.
    Since I just updated my license does this mean I can goto the DMV pickup a copy of my driving record and this will work? On my ID it says ISSUED REI then 11-03-2007

    And yes I do plan on OCing Great forum guys You'll see me around.

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    Take in your vehicle registration that has the prior address. The issue date will show you have lived in Virginia more than 60 days from the date it was issued.

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    I just called up Loudoun Guns Inc, and asked. They said it requires to have the new license for 30 days. I asked about gun shows.. he said well.. maybe because gun shows are more lenient I could probably purchase there.

    So Would old registration + new license + passport be enough?

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    Spudstr wrote:
    I just called up Loudoun Guns Inc, and asked. They said it requires to have the new license for 30 days. I asked about gun shows.. he said well.. maybe because gun shows are more lenient I could probably purchase there.

    So Would old registration + new license + passport be enough?
    I cannot say for sure... I am not a FFL dealer. Maybe another here can advise.

    I would think that the NEW license meant new to the state and issued. Not for reissued license for one that was about to expire or was reissued.

    I think you have to show proof of residency and if you have lived here all your life.... why does this cause you to be denied.



  5. #5
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    Check the rules. I believe many dealers want a driver license because it's convenient, but two forms of ID, one of which has a photo, and which have the same address (or proof thereof). I'll try to research later this evening.

    When I moved and updated my DL (on line; it's much easier); the DMV sent me a card showing I had updated it, and it sufficed for "the same exact address." I kept it with my license, and was able to use that license to purchase a firearm. Of course, the issue date was older.

    ETA: I found this on the Nation's Gun Show site: http://www.thenationsgunshow.com/

    VA Residents: Must be of legal age to purchase a firearm. Must have two (2) forms of ID with the same exact address. One ID should be a valid VA Driver's License or VA ID Card. The other ID can be a document that proves you are VA resident...a concealed carry permit, a personal check , a vehicle registration, utility bill...you can also use a hunting/fishing license...which ever form of ID you use for your 2nd ID it must have the same exact address as your driver's license. You must fill out the paperwork and pass the background check, you can then take your firearm with you. NON-VA Residents: Must be of legal age to purchase a firearm. Can only purchase long guns (rifles and shotguns) and must have the same forms of ID as VA residents. Driver's License from your State of residence and another ID that proves you live in that State.ALL LAWS OF BOTH STATES MUST BE COMPLIED WITH. You must fill out the paperwork and pass the background check, you can then take your firearm with you.
    Military Personnel: Must bring a copy of your orders that show VA as your "permanent duty station." Must have your Military ID and your Driver's License from the State you are from.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    You don't even have to have a license. Just take your passport and a second ID like your voter registration card.

    Expect some resistance and thank Mayor Bloomburb for it!

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    Spudstr wrote:
    SNIP I just called up Loudoun Guns Inc, and asked. They said it requires to have the new license for 30 days. I asked about gun shows.. he said well.. maybe because gun shows are more lenient I could probably purchase there.
    This probably isn't the sort of second-hand, un-educated report we want to forward onto a public forum where Brady and Jim Sollo can use it against us. Even if we know it is incorrect.

    I've not encountered any leniency at gun shows. The last firearm I purchased at a gun show, the dealer adhered to the letter of the law, nearly refusing the transaction because it was very close to the end of the last day and he did not want to be delayed packing and leaving, which thebackround check would possibly have done. I held my breath, he thought it over, and stayed a little late to wait for me to fill out all the paperwork,get the computerized check before making the sale. Yes, he did check the date on my gov't issued photo ID.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I've not encountered any leniency at gun shows. The last firearm I purchased at a gun show, the dealer adhered to the letter of the law, nearly refusing the transaction because it was very close to the end of the last day and he did not want to be delayed by the backround check. I held my breath, he thought it over, and stayed a little late to wait for me to fill out all the paperwork, get the computerized check before making the sale. Yes, he did check the date on my gov't issued photo ID.
    I have the same opinion but especially since the Blumborg problem, they've been extra careful. That's why I told him to expect resistance.

    The ATF apparently has been on a rampage too. I was talking to Bob (the gun manager) at the Glen Allen Gander Mountain day before last. BTW, he's a retired LEO and a hell of a nice fellow. He told me ATF had been auditing the Va stores and writing them up for anything they can find. If a buyer abbreviates anything, including their state, they get written up for it.

    That's why I was there as amatter of fact. The wife bought a shotgun and answered no in a spot where it should have been blank. They sent a certified letter. Bob said it was required bt ATF.
    Things sure have changed since I had my FFL.


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    I thought the FOPA of '86 was supposed to fix all the abuse of dealers by the ATF?

    What was that? A law didn't work?

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    This is why I just get a change of address card from the DMV.

    You DL has the issue date, the change of address card has the new address, with their powers combined, they are a DL with a new address and an old issue date.

    Then I just take my power bill with me.

    That, and it's free! :celebrate
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Here is the relevant Virginia code:
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...d+18.2-308.2C2
    When the photo-identification presented to a dealer by the prospective purchaser is a driver's license or other photo-identification issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles, and such identification form contains a date of issue, the dealer shall not, except for a renewed driver's license or other photo-identification issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles, sell or otherwise transfer a firearm to the prospective purchaser until 30 days after the date of issue of an original or duplicate driver's license unless the prospective purchaser also presents a copy of his Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles driver's record showing that the original date of issue of the driver's license was more than 30 days prior to the attempted purchase.

    The best people to call on this is the Virginia Firearms Transaction Center helpline.
    (804) 674-2292


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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Good gracious people stop all the f'ing guessing.

    Your REI is good to go! Just make sure you have 2d ID with your new address, Car registration, utility bill, lease, voters card......what is acceptable 2d ID can vary from dealer to dealer if it isn't one of the 'common' ones.

    Original-ORI and Duplicate-DUP, you must wait 30 days.

    A Passport and a second ID WILL NOT get you a gun in Va.
    a driver's license or other photo-identification issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles
    dealer must require any prospective purchaser to present one photo-identification form issued by a governmental agency of the Commonwealth
    Aside from DMV there are not many, if any, agencies of the Commonwealth that issue photo ID with an address on it.

    The 'Helpline' is not very helpful but you can try. They do not know jack ****. They have NEVER been able to answer any of my questions.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Well I guess YMMV because I've had better luck with them, OTOH they have had said some rediculous stuff too.

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    Good gracious people stop all the f'ing guessing. Your REI is good to go! Just make sure you have 2d ID with your new address, Car registration, utility bill, lease, voters card......what is acceptable 2d ID can vary from dealer to dealer if it isn't one of the 'common' ones. Original-ORI and Duplicate-DUP, you must wait 30 days.
    well thats good news. I wonder how many FFL's know this. the one i spoke with on the phone made it out that I really had to wait 30 days.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    A Passport and a second ID WILL NOT get you a gun in Va.
    Never mind. It's OK for the Federal end but the state only takes the passport as secondary. Damn, I'm glad I didn't have to fool with the state forms when I had my FFL. What a pain!

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    peter nap wrote:
    A Passport and a second ID WILL NOT get you a gun in Va.
    Oh really....where did you get that bit of information?
    Look at the Va Code cited above; primary ID must be either DOD ID or commonwaelth ID with address.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I just did and changed my post! Odd that the state makes it more restrictive than the Federal.

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    peter nap wrote:
    I just did and changed my post! Odd that the state makes it more restrictive than the Federal.
    Yes. But a handy argument against the anti-s who claim it is so easy to buy a gun in VA.

    Our SuperModerator did some research back about the time of the Bloomberg Gun GiveAway. He ranked VA sixth from the most restrictive state, I think. That means there are 44 states that are less restrictive on firearms than VA. I think I got that right.

    Mike, correct me if I'm wrong.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Called the help line. They said I still have to wait the 30 days regardless a REI or DUP, no DMV record to help nothing Just have to wait. Even though the law says a DMV record would work.. unless thats only for Duplicates and not re-issues due to address changes.

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    Spudstr wrote:
    Called the help line. They said I still have to wait the 30 days regardless a REI or DUP, no DMV record to help nothing Just have to wait. Even though the law says a DMV record would work.. unless thats only for Duplicates and not re-issues due to address changes.
    Spudstr - First, Welcome! :celebrate

    On the bright side, you'll have more $$ for the next show

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    Spudstr wrote:
    Called the help line. They said I still have to wait the 30 days regardless a REI or DUP, no DMV record to help nothing Just have to wait. Even though the law says a DMV record would work.. unless thats only for Duplicates and not re-issues due to address changes.
    As mentioned above, they do not know jack down there. Probably the same person that once told me "We don't get into that legal stuff here" or "That must be a federal thing" Me: I am looking RIGHT AT IT IN THE VA CODE!!

    I can't find a copy online but right on the State form it says, 30 days must have elapsed since the date of issue of an ORIGINAL or DUPLICATE license......
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

  22. #22
    Regular Member Virginiaplanter's Avatar
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    longwatch wrote:
    Here is the relevant Virginia code:
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...d+18.2-308.2C2
    When the photo-identification presented to a dealer by the prospective purchaser is a driver's license or other photo-identification issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles, and such identification form contains a date of issue, the dealer shall not, except for a renewed driver's license or other photo-identification issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles, sell or otherwise transfer a firearm to the prospective purchaser until 30 days after the date of issue of an original or duplicate driver's license unless the prospective purchaser also presents a copy of his Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles driver's record showing that the original date of issue of the driver's license was more than 30 days prior to the attempted purchase.

    The best people to call on this is the Virginia Firearms Transaction Center helpline.
    (804) 674-2292

    Longwatch is correct. The statute clealry states except for a renewed license.

    Black's law dictionary states:

    Issue: , n., The act of issuing, sending forth, emmitting or promulgating; the giving a things its first inception;

    This is not your first license right as you moved within the state? Then it's not a first inception it's a renewal. The entire wording regarding DMV photo ID's was added in 1994

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...1+ful+CHAP0624


    Under accepted rules of Statutory construction: "‘[T]he primary objective of statutory construction is to ascertain and give effect to legislative intent.'" Crews v. Commonwealth, 3 Va. App. 531, 535-36, 352 S.E.2d 1, 3 (1987) (quoting Turner v. Commonwealth, 226 Va. 456, 459, 309 S.E.2d 337, 338 (1983)). In interpreting statutes, "courts should give the fullest possible effect to the legislative intent embodied in the entire statutory enactment." Virginia Real Estate Bd. v. Clay, 9 Va. App. 152, 157, 384 S.E.2d 622, 625 (1989). [w]hile in the construction of statutes the constant endeavor of the courts is to ascertain and give effect to the intention of the legislature, that intention must be gathered from the words used, unless a literal construction would involve a manifest absurdity.’ "The Court has stated the related principle that "the plain, obvious, and rational meaning of a statute is always to be preferred to any curious, narrow, or strained construction." Statutes should not be interpreted in ways that produce absurd or irrational consequences."

    It's a renewal , not an issue and there is no justification that the legislature meant anything other than this requirement be applied to a first time issue. It is clear that they did not write this wording to penalize people who comply with the law and renew their license. That would be an absured reading of the text.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Take in your vehicle registration that has the prior address. The issue date will show you have lived in Virginia more than 60 days from the date it was issued.
    I wanted topoint out this is why you never ask a cop about gun laws. We all know 229's comment makes logical sense but it is incorrect. We also know logic and gun laws are like oil and water.

    I just called up Loudoun Guns Inc, and asked. They said it requires to have the new license for 30 days. I asked about gun shows.. he said well.. maybe because gun shows are more lenient I could probably purchase there.
    I can't fukin believe this!!! More lenient at gun shows?, this from a gun dealer, jeeeez the anti's have everyone believing this crap.

    Spud, you stated as 'new' license, is this what you asked or did you say re-issue?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    Spud, you stated as 'new' license, is this what you asked or did you say re-issue?
    I told him I moved from ashburn to reston and updated my license at the DMV. He hesitated about the gun show when I asked him and was unsure about it. I did ask him even if i went to the DMV and got a driving record and he still said no it did not matter.

    So either A. they are playing it safe or b just unsure of the complete law.

  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I think this is an excellent basis for a complaint, this stuff can only get corrected if we make some noise about it. Like roll call training after open carry incidents the can only change if they are shown they are wrong. I would suggest a letter to Donna Tate at the FTC CC Philip Van Cleave.

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