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Thread: Thinking of carrying a stun gun in stead of a real firearm?

  1. #1
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    Source:

    http://www.11alive.com/news/article_...storyid=106124

    Article:

    ATLANTA (AP) -- A man tried to use a stun gun to fend off a carjacker and ended up being shot five times.

    The man was taken to the hospital Wednesday with wounds to his abdomen and leg but was expected to survive, Atlanta police Sgt. Lisa Keyes said.

    The man was driving a minivan in southeast Atlanta when he was confronted by a carjacker at an intersection. The carjacker jumped in, told the man to drive and demanded money, police said.

    While trying to reach for his money, the man also pulled out his stun gun and shocked the carjacker.

    But the carjacker reacted by shooting the man at least five times, Keyes said. The van, which was still moving, crashed into a tree and the carjacker ran away.

    The victim, whose name was not immediately released, was conscious and talking to investigators when he was taken to the hospital, Keyes said.

    Keyes stressed the importance simply giving up the vehicle when confronted by a carjacker.

    "Make the situation safe for you," she said. "You know you have to get away from that person. Just try to give the car up."




    My comments:

    Sounds like someone needs to have a chat with Lisa Keyes about her whole 'Giving up' when confronted mindset.

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    Regular Member compmanio365's Avatar
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    Hmm......sounds like someone doesn't understand the idea of "equal force".....a stun gun is not equal to a handgun...period, I don't care what anyone says........what the guy needed was to respond with 5-6 rounds of .45 and take care of the problem.

    Still, I applaud him for his bravery and willingness to stand up against an attacker instead of just "giving up" as this excuse for a Sgt says. He just needs to get the right tools for the job......

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    So many things wrong with that story

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    Well, I suppose he should be commended for getting the jump on his attacker. If only it had been a .45 instead of a stun gun, this story would've had a much happier ending. :?

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    compmanio365 wrote:
    Hmm......sounds like someone doesn't understand the idea of "equal force".....a stun gun is not equal to a handgun...period, I don't care what anyone says........what the guy needed was to respond with 5-6 rounds of .45 and take care of the problem.

    Still, I applaud him for his bravery and willingness to stand up against an attacker instead of just "giving up" as this excuse for a Sgt says. He just needs to get the right tools for the job......
    So if he had (the car-jacker) had a .45 and I a .44...Would I then be using "excessive" force.

    -"Sorry, sir I need to take out my .45 instead so that we have "equal force""

    (Do you feel Lucky...Punk ? Do you ?)

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    probably somebody with the mistaken idea that property is not worth the taking of a life, as well as that a taser is just as effective at incapacitating a criminal as a handgun, or more so.

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    Well, I tend to think that a shot from my .44 Magnum is enough to stun a carjacker... it's a "stun-gun", I swear!

    I think the misconception among the general public is that a stun gun is effective in subduing someone if a private civilian uses it individually. But in fact, stun guns are only effectively when used by three or more law enforcement officers while holding down someone who is already handcuffed...

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    Notice the article says "stun gun" and NOT Taser. For all we know, this could have been one of those $20 stun guns that runs on a single 9v battery and produces 50,000 volts.

    I've played with one of those, and it won't stop a house cat from messing with you.

    I would not equate carrying one of those with carrying a taser. That would be like saying a guy was carrying a gun when all he had was a BB gun. Definitely not in the same league.

    Still, I'll stick with the real thing.

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    mzbk2l wrote:
    Notice the article says "stun gun" and NOT Taser. For all we know, this could have been one of those $20 stun guns that runs on a single 9v battery and produces 50,000 volts.

    I've played with one of those, and it won't stop a house cat from messing with you.

    I would not equate carrying one of those with carrying a taser. That would be like saying a guy was carrying a gun when all he had was a BB gun. Definitely not in the same league.
    Good point. A Taser is a very good tool for many PD defense situations.

    I've been thinking about buying one and using it as a part of my SD regimen. The LTL aspects of the Taser are quite appealing to me.

    Basically, I would hate to have to shoot a couple of holes in someone who is attacking me if I could disable them with a Taser instead. All I really want to do is thwart an attack effectively and to go home safe. I don't really feel a need to actually shoot and/or kill somebody if it can be avoided.

    The X26C is just really expensive (~$950) but the C2 (~$350) will probably have to do.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    To put everything in proper perspective HankT,would you OC it?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I love the Police Sgt's advice at the end... Not an option if you have a kid in the back seat, amongst other qualms with it. That said, I'd rather lose my car than my life, but you can be sure it wouldn't be my only option to just roll over, hand the keys, and call the Police. In this case however, he wasn't carjacked, he was abducted. Who knows where the carjacker had plans to take him? That's not a carjacking, it's kidnapping.

    You can't fault the guy for protecting himself, and meeting deadly force with some form of self-defense and restraint. I just wish he had a gun. The carjacker's still on the loose.
    -Unrequited

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    unrequited wrote:
    I love the Police Sgt's advice at the end... Not an option if you have a kid in the back seat, amongst other qualms with it. That said, I'd rather lose my car than my life, but you can be sure it wouldn't be my only option to just roll over, hand the keys, and call the Police. In this case however, he wasn't carjacked, he was abducted. Who knows where the carjacker had plans to take him? That's not a carjacking, it's kidnapping.
    What would you have done, un? Neutralize the attacker? How?




    unrequited wrote:
    You can't fault the guy for protecting himself, and meeting deadly force with some form of self-defense and restraint.
    I agree. The guy showed that he had somePD plan and equipment. He's way ahead of the curve. Trying to inject a gun into the situation is kind of weird....Why not putin an ejector seat gizmo like James Bond had in his old DB5? Now, that would have been cool.

    Just flip that little lid on the gear shift knob....



    ......................................and whhhhhhooooooooooosssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh!




    unrequited wrote:

    I love the Police Sgt's advice at the end... Not an option if you have a kid in the back seat, amongst other qualms with it.

    I'm not sure what the kid in the back seat has to do with the example. The driver/abductee was alone...

    Keyes ...
    "Make the situation safe for you," she said. "You know you have to get away from that person. Just try to give the car up."




    I don't see anything wrong with the basic advice in this case (and in most cases of a gunman carjacker). If the guy has a gun on you (and you are armed or not), give up the car, there is noneed to try to be a hero if you do not have to. Sometimes that is not possible, of course.

    Come to think of it, if you got a little kid in the back seat and you are armed only with some chintzy stun gun, you had BETTER try to give the car up--keeping the kid at any cost. Trying to hold on to some hunk o' junk and unnecessarily endangering thelittle tykejust because you're feeling all macho-like is a losing strategy and tactic. If the attacker will take the car and leave you and your passengers behind--that's a big WIN for the potential abductee, given the situational structure. In fact, you should throw him a couple of Jacksons for gas if you're that fortunate....



    Remember. The old adage is still good:

    When attacked, escape.

    When cornered, kill.



    Somepeople get that flipped around...





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    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Agent19 wrote:

    HankT ?
    What would you have done, un?Kill, maim, bargin with the attacker? How?
    Would you beg for your life, offer sexual favors?


    Please inform us.
    If I or many others had been there, while the guy was asking for money the threat would have been neutralized.

    OF COURSE the probability of shooting and death would have been very high.


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    nickerj1 wrote:
    Source:

    http://www.11alive.com/news/article_...storyid=106124

    Article:

    ATLANTA (AP) -- A man tried to use a stun gun to fend off a carjacker and ended up being shot five times.

    The man was taken to the hospital Wednesday with wounds to his abdomen and leg but was expected to survive, Atlanta police Sgt. Lisa Keyes said.

    The man was driving a minivan in southeast Atlanta when he was confronted by a carjacker at an intersection. The carjacker jumped in, told the man to drive and demanded money, police said.

    While trying to reach for his money, the man also pulled out his stun gun and shocked the carjacker.

    But the carjacker reacted by shooting the man at least five times, Keyes said. The van, which was still moving, crashed into a tree and the carjacker ran away.

    The victim, whose name was not immediately released, was conscious and talking to investigators when he was taken to the hospital, Keyes said.

    Keyes stressed the importance simply giving up the vehicle when confronted by a carjacker.

    "Make the situation safe for you," she said. "You know you have to get away from that person. Just try to give the car up."




    My comments:

    Sounds like someone needs to have a chat with Lisa Keyes about her whole 'Giving up' when confronted mindset.
    When EVER you try and use less than lethal force whether it is a stun gun a Tazer or spray one of 5 things can happen;

    1. No affect

    2. Minimal affect

    3. Makes them mad and they really let you have it

    4. Desired affect

    5. You spray, zap or shoot yourself

    When it comes to personal defence, 4 of the above are bad FOR YOU.

    For your information number 3. is the result shown in this story.



    Tarzan



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    Agent19 wrote:

    HankT ?
    What would you have done, ......offer sexual favors?




    Come on guys.

    Lets be real.

    HankT and I have had our differences, but she is not that kind of girl.

    At least I don't think she is.

    You aren't, are you HankT?

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    Since the article said Stun Gun and not Taser, I'm guessing it was one fo the 'baragain' contact stun weapons. Definiately not what you want when your facing ANY attacker, much less an armed one. An actual taser is not quite as ineffective as you all are saying, its just twice as expensive as a good handgun, and only has one shot...Ya, I think I'll stick with the handgun (once I actually get one anyway, and my CHL...just one more year).

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    Where do you live, HC?
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Oregon, but I'm going to school in Ohio, and the dorm bans all 'weapons' (thank the innumerable gods of darkness that a folding knife isn't considered a weapon if its less than 3 inches of blade). And since I was nevered involved in anything related with firearms (both my parents don't care for them much, Hell, they didn't even like it when I started carrying 2-3 pocket knives), I've never even touched a real gun, much less fired one (though I do I have a neat air pistol thats fun to plink with in the backyard...too bad its considered a weapon...). However, I did a short essay on concealed carry last year for a writing class, and it got into researching other firearms related stuff, which was bolstered by the research paper I did for my next writing class...again on concealed carry (albeit much more in depth and with alot more citations). So I went from being someone that didn't really care about all that 2nd Amendment non-sense (mainly because I didn't know how hard they were trying to actaully destroy the 2nd Amendment) to being a pretty die hard opponent of gun control in almost all forms. Which is ironic because I started out mainly by reading pro-gun control stuff, it was just so asstastically retarded that I realized "if this is the best they can come up with, then why in the 7 hells are people still taking them seriously?" And I figured if I was going to support gun rights then I might as well get some practical experience with guns, but since I don't know any gunnies I figured the best place to start would be a basic handgun course, which I can't do until summer 'cause of college and stuff.

    Well that was an intersting tangent, I hope I didn't bore anyone with that somewhat longwinded paragraph.

  21. #21
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    Well, if you're going to be in Ohio for a while....

    http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Heartless_Conservative wrote:
    Oregon, but I'm going to school in Ohio, and the dorm bans all 'weapons' (thank the innumerable gods of darkness that a folding knife isn't considered a weapon if its less than 3 inches of blade). And since I was nevered involved in anything related with firearms (both my parents don't care for them much, Hell, they didn't even like it when I started carrying 2-3 pocket knives), I've never even touched a real gun, much less fired one (though I do I have a neat air pistol thats fun to plink with in the backyard...too bad its considered a weapon...). However, I did a short essay on concealed carry last year for a writing class, and it got into researching other firearms related stuff, which was bolstered by the research paper I did for my next writing class...again on concealed carry (albeit much more in depth and with alot more citations). So I went from being someone that didn't really care about all that 2nd Amendment non-sense (mainly because I didn't know how hard they were trying to actaully destroy the 2nd Amendment) to being a pretty die hard opponent of gun control in almost all forms. Which is ironic because I started out mainly by reading pro-gun control stuff, it was just so asstastically retarded that I realized "if this is the best they can come up with, then why in the 7 hells are people still taking them seriously?" And I figured if I was going to support gun rights then I might as well get some practical experience with guns, but since I don't know any gunnies I figured the best place to start would be a basic handgun course, which I can't do until summer 'cause of college and stuff.

    Well that was an intersting tangent, I hope I didn't bore anyone with that somewhat longwinded paragraph.
    No boredom at all - welcome aboard - pleased to have you here. You have discovered that gun control ideas and proponents cannot stand the light of facts/truth shinning upon them. Like vampires their deceit and lies turn to dust when exposed to the light of day.

    Become as active as your time and funds will allow. At least continue your education into our fundamental freedoms and spread the word. Veritas vos liberabit.

    Yata hey

    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
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    Heartless_Conservative wrote:
    Oregon, but I'm going to school in Ohio, and the dorm bans all 'weapons' (thank the innumerable gods of darkness that a folding knife isn't considered a weapon if its less than 3 inches of blade). And since I was nevered involved in anything related with firearms (both my parents don't care for them much, Hell, they didn't even like it when I started carrying 2-3 pocket knives), I've never even touched a real gun, much less fired one (though I do I have a neat air pistol thats fun to plink with in the backyard...too bad its considered a weapon...). However, I did a short essay on concealed carry last year for a writing class, and it got into researching other firearms related stuff, which was bolstered by the research paper I did for my next writing class...again on concealed carry (albeit much more in depth and with alot more citations). So I went from being someone that didn't really care about all that 2nd Amendment non-sense (mainly because I didn't know how hard they were trying to actaully destroy the 2nd Amendment) to being a pretty die hard opponent of gun control in almost all forms. Which is ironic because I started out mainly by reading pro-gun control stuff, it was just so asstastically retarded that I realized "if this is the best they can come up with, then why in the 7 hells are people still taking them seriously?" And I figured if I was going to support gun rights then I might as well get some practical experience with guns, but since I don't know any gunnies I figured the best place to start would be a basic handgun course, which I can't do until summer 'cause of college and stuff.

    Well that was an intersting tangent, I hope I didn't bore anyone with that somewhat longwinded paragraph.
    I'm sure there are a lot of people in Oregon who would be willing to take you shooting. Might want to try a more frequented forum, like thehighroad.org, but we gun people are pretty friendly, and like to teach first shooters. I'm up in the Seattle area, or I'd offer.

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