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Thread: Prohibiting loaded guns at gun shows (by request)

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    So here's a new thread, by request, to discuss the prohibition of guns at gun shows. I've heard quite a few people state that they will not go to a gun show that prohibits loaded guns because it is hypocrisy. OK, here's a question for you.

    How many of you still go to the gun range even though the rules of every range I have ever been to prohibit you from carrying a loaded firearm while using the range? If you answer is you obey their rules while complaining about WAC then you are the hypocrit. If your answer is that you don't go to the range because of their rules, then the next question is where do you practice? I am assuming that none of you would be so irresponsible as to fail to practice with a handgun that you are regularly carrying.

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    I am not one of those people to which you are referring.

    In Virginia, my understanding is the gun show promoters have those rules for insurance reasons, and there are so many armed police officers (and undercover ATF officers) present, that a gun show is about as safe a venue you will find.

    On the other hand, I boycott business with those no guns allowed signs when they do not provide armed security.

    I really like gun shows and go whenever I can, so a no loaded weapons policy does not bother me. I can still take my gun in, and my loadedmagazines. You can't do that in a school or courthouse! And when I leave the gun show, good bye zip tie and I reload. Not a problem.



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    1. There will be no loaded firearms, magazines, or speedloaders in the building, either on the tables or on one’s person, with the exception of law enforcement and private security officers under contract with WAC

    This is rule #1 found on WAC's web site. So if you are taking a loaded mag into a WAC gun show you are breaking their rules.

    No, I don't go to gun ranges. I was not aware of that rule but that is not why I don't go. We have 60 acres in SW WA with a vacation house. We go there about once a monthand shoot just about every time. My wife and kids love it.

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    heresolong wrote:
    So here's a new thread, by request, to discuss the prohibition of guns at gun shows. I've heard quite a few people state that they will not go to a gun show that prohibits loaded guns because it is hypocrisy. OK, here's a question for you.

    How many of you still go to the gun range even though the rules of every range I have ever been to prohibit you from carrying a loaded firearm while using the range? If you answer is you obey their rules while complaining about WAC then you are the hypocrit. If your answer is that you don't go to the range because of their rules, then the next question is where do you practice? I am assuming that none of you would be so irresponsible as to fail to practice with a handgun that you are regularly carrying.
    Good point. I don't know if it is hypocrisy. I probably wouldn't call it that. But, definitely, self-serving inconsistency. And, generally, badlogic.

    Some gun guys figure that sneaking in a loaded gun into a gun show is a cool thing. And on some level it is. You just ignore the signs, ignore the property rights, lie to the checkersand get that concealed gun in there.(Why isit, btw, that guysdon'tinsist on attendingwhile OCing? Hmmm.)

    Whenever I go to a gun show, I think aboutthe (remote, very remote)possibility of some kind ofattack/robbery inside the show, where shots are fired.

    I think about all the loadedguns that will be drawn.

    And I shudder.

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    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    heresolong wrote:
    How many of you still go to the gun range even though the rules of every range I have ever been to prohibit you from carrying a loaded firearm while using the range?
    Bullseye has no such rule, neither does Capitol Forest; I arrive at both with my sidearm fully loaded and OC.





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    In all the years I have belonged to WAC (20+) I can recall one AD and that was caused by a plastic bag of ammo falling off a table and the nose of one round struck the primer of another.

    JIm

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    Regular Member ChinChin's Avatar
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    heresolong wrote:
    So here's a new thread, by request, to discuss the prohibition of guns at gun shows. I've heard quite a few people state that they will not go to a gun show that prohibits loaded guns because it is hypocrisy.
    This is simply faulty logic.


    When a Wal*Mart, Blockbuster, Local Bank, et al. prohibit the carry of firearms in their establishment; 9 out of 10 times it is due to irrational fear of the scary handgun and a general misconception that a simple sign will deter crime.

    When a gun show bands carry, it’s not because of irrational fear or moral superiority, it’s because the insurance company of the location deems it too great a risk to their coverage. Most times the venue owners, the promoters and all the dealers don't give a flying frig if you carry or not, it’s all about the insurance provider and their bottom line. There is too much potential for something to go wrong, and if you've seen some of the wackados that go to these gunshows, I know I wouldn't feel safe around them with a loaded weapon in their possession.

    But back on track. . . .

    It isn't hypocrisy to give business to a gun show that bans carry. The show promoters don't make the rules; it's the venue owner and more importantly the insurance provider. If you want to Boycott, you should boycott the insurance company. But hey. . .you don't want to attend based upon some misplaced principal just means more deals and greater selection for THIS GUY!

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    Mainsail wrote:
    heresolong wrote:
    How many of you still go to the gun range even though the rules of every range I have ever been to prohibit you from carrying a loaded firearm while using the range?
    Bullseye has no such rule, neither does Capitol Forest; I arrive at both with my sidearm fully loaded and OC.



    And Sam's as well as the Northpoint range (formerly Arlington Regional. The only local range I know of that ban's loaded guns is Everett Sportsman on Eby Island but their pistol range is
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    ChinChin wrote:
    heresolong wrote:
    So here's a new thread, by request, to discuss the prohibition of guns at gun shows. I've heard quite a few people state that they will not go to a gun show that prohibits loaded guns because it is hypocrisy.
    When a gun show bands carry...it’s because the insurance company of the location deems it too great a risk to their coverage.
    Wow, so if every business in Washington were to start claiming we cannot carry in their stores because of ‘insurance’ restrictions, they could, in effect, end firearms carry.

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    I don't get out to gun shows because I work weekends but have thought about this for a while. If I walk around in gun shops, ranges, bookstores and anywhere else armed, why not the gunshow?

    The problem I see is insurance. I wonder how the WAC for instance would deal with loaded sidearms if their insurance wasn't so picky? If they would not have a hissy fit, I may give them the benifit of a doubt here. Otherwise the way I see it, is provide armed security and I may put up with your policies. Clearly places like Sportsman's Warehouse who allow a holstered sidearm loaded have no issues, so why not gunshows? Leave it in the holster. If you want to find a holster for the dang thing, carry a different gun, or carry a dummy version. I paid $20 for a soft air replica of my P89 and it is identical in every way that matters. I can use this to try different holsters while carrying the real deal.

    Keep the guns holstered and there should not be a problem.

    Steve

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    Well here's the rule at Custer Gun Club

    "Pistols are not to be carried loaded in a holster (except law enforcement on duty)"


    Bullseye Indoor shooting range

    "All firearms must be unloaded and cased when brought into the Bullseye Shooting Range."




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    Mainsail wrote:
    ChinChin wrote:
    heresolong wrote:
    So here's a new thread, by request, to discuss the prohibition of guns at gun shows. I've heard quite a few people state that they will not go to a gun show that prohibits loaded guns because it is hypocrisy.
    When a gun show bands carry...it’s because the insurance company of the location deems it too great a risk to their coverage.
    Wow, so if every business in Washington were to start claiming we cannot carry in their stores because of ‘insurance’ restrictions, they could, in effect, end firearms carry.
    Thats only if we acknowledge thier request.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

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    wac wont even unload and tie your gun for entry if you are not a member. I was told that "if I was not a member than I was not allowed to carry a gun loaded or not"



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    WAC should be on the do not patronize list.

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    My issue is not being able to buy a gun unless I am a WAC member. I agree that there is so much security that I would feel safe inside wothout my gun. If I go though, it;s to potentially buy. If I can't buy without joining a club... then I won't go.
    CZ 75B 9mm, Ruger P94 .40 S&W, Bersa Thunder .380, AR-15 Homebuild

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    Jared Galleria of Jewlery (2501 South 38th Street, #C100) - Tacoma: Has armed guards.



    Pacific Place of Seattle (6th Avenue & Pine Street) - Seattle : Hassecurity.




    Tacoma Mall (4502 S Steele St., Ste. 1177) - Tacoma: Has security.



    Southcenter Mall (633 Southcenter Mall) - Tukwila : Has security.



    So does everyone feel safe enough at these businesses to remove them from the do not patronize list?

    That ofcourse is a rhetorical question. I just don't get this kind of logic. Are we trying to change things so we don't get villafied for doing legal activity or not? I don't think just because a place sells guns or offers good deals on holsters is a reasion to overlook this issue. and as far as security goes, every city county and state has security. They are called LEO's. does everyone feel safe? If so this site would not be here.

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    Regular Member j2l3's Avatar
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    Except that there is a disproportionate amount of security at gun shows. Malls? I have never seen an armed security officer at Pacific Place. What company do they work for? I question this.

    Police are gew per thousands of populace. They are also not obligated to provide security for the individual, rather, society in general.
    CZ 75B 9mm, Ruger P94 .40 S&W, Bersa Thunder .380, AR-15 Homebuild

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    I should have confirmed this be forI posted. I apologise. I got this info from what I thought was a reliable source. If this is wrong I will recant. Jared does in fact have armed guards.

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    I just don't understand this. If I was part of a anti gun organization this would be a excellent argument. What kind of message is this sending when WAC dose not trust us to be responsible? How can the general population? WACis helping to give all of us a bad name. I just don't know how a person can support what this site stands for andsupport WAC at the same time.

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    j2l3 wrote:
    I agree that there is so much security that I would feel safe inside wothout my gun.
    Except that there is a disproportionate amount of security at gun shows.
    What does security, armed or otherwise, have to do with any of this? Armed guards don’t protect me when I’m walking to or from the show. They don’t stand watch over my car to ensure nobody breaks in and steals the gun I have to leave there. (Please don’t say that I could just unload and bring the gun inside, if it’s too dangerous to have a loaded gun inside the show, it’s twice as dangerous to have all those people unloading and then reloading.)

    These are the arguments the anti-gun folks use; you don’t need a gun, there’s somebody else there to protect you. It doesn’t matter if every third person in the show is an armed guard; I carry a firearm because I choose to trust me for my protection, not somebody else.

    This is about hypocrisy and nothing more. It’s absolutely duplicitous to say retailer’s firearms bans are discriminatory, but just because the business sells something you like it’s ok for the WAC show to ban them.

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    CC27 wrote:
    Pacific Place of Seattle (6th Avenue & Pine Street) - Seattle : Hassecurity.

    Tacoma Mall (4502 S Steele St., Ste. 1177) - Tacoma: Has security.

    Southcenter Mall (633 Southcenter Mall) - Tukwila : Has security.

    Yes, the Malls DO have security, they are not armed. Their job is to be visible and try to get people to comply with Mall rules of conduct.

    If something serious happens, they are not expected to help you. They are expected to "Observe and Report". Nothing more. Trust me, for what they are paid, they are not going to jump in front of someone with a gun.

    Visible security is far different from armed security with a mandate to protect.
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    j2l3 wrote:
    CC27 wrote:
    Pacific Place of Seattle (6th Avenue & Pine Street) - Seattle : Hassecurity.

    Tacoma Mall (4502 S Steele St., Ste. 1177) - Tacoma: Has security.

    Southcenter Mall (633 Southcenter Mall) - Tukwila : Has security.

    Yes, the Malls DO have security, they are not armed. Their job is to be visible and try to get people to comply with Mall rules of conduct.

    If something serious happens, they are not expected to help you. They are expected to "Observe and Report". Nothing more. Trust me, for what they are paid, they are not going to jump in front of someone with a gun.

    Visible security is far different from armed security with a mandate to protect.
    Tacoma Mall has (armed) off-duty TPD that work there. I imagine other malls are typical.


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    j2l3 wrote:
    If something serious happens, they are not expected to help you. They are expected to "Observe and Report". Nothing more. Trust me, for what they are paid, they are not going to jump in front of someone with a gun.

    Visible security is far different from armed security with a mandate to protect.
    Heck I had a guard try and throw me out of Westlake once because I was gagging on some food and spit a little up on the sidewalk. Don't imagine they are going to do much good stopping real crime. My gun is my visible security.

    Steve

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    Mainsail wrote:
    Tacoma Mall has (armed) off-duty TPD that work there. I imagine other malls are typical.
    That's interesting about Tacoma Mall. Good for them, though somehow the likelyhood of them being nearby when something bad happens isn't good. it would have to be a stroke of luck.

    The Security Directors for Southcenter and Northgate are friends of mine. There is no armed security there.
    CZ 75B 9mm, Ruger P94 .40 S&W, Bersa Thunder .380, AR-15 Homebuild

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    The issue isn't security. The issue is hypocrisy. everyone gits up in arms about Walmart, Sportsmans warehouse, or even Larry's gun shop, but they just bend over and take it from WAC. It's ridiculous. If you just stopped at thought about it you would see that this rule is B.S. and is hurting every law abiding gun owner.

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