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Thread: Kansas college to post no gun signs - thinks these signs make all gun possession unlawful

  1. #1
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    My recollection of the new KS law is that (1) no gun signs only make CONCEALED carry unlawful and (2) local, and maybe state agency rules against vehicle carry are preempted for permit holders.

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    http://tinyurl.com/3a8njq


    Officials to post 'No gun' signs

    Doug Graham/Collegio Editor in Chief

    "No guns allowed" signs will soon be posted all over campus, a decision made after Pittsburg State officials waded through murky concealed carry legislation.
    The decision to post the signs comes after the Virginia Tech shootings, and more recently, the September arrest of former student Nathan Backs on felony threat charges, which also involved guns being found in his vehicle and knives in his dorm room.
    "It was probably the straw that broke the camel's back for us, more than anything," said Darron Farha, university attorney, referring to the Backs case.
    Farha says that having guns on campus is already against school policy, and is just cause for expulsion or other punitive measures. But with the new signs in place, having weapons on campus, whether they be firearms or knives over 4 inches long, will be a misdemeanor crime punishable by fine.
    The date the signs will be posted could not be determined as of press time.
    Farha says that part of the reason the signs weren't up already is that state laws concerning the matter were so unclear that the university didn't realize it needed to post them.
    "Because of the complicated nature of this, (Backs) kind of fell into the little bitty window that wasn't resolved," Farha said.
    While the Crawford County Attorney's office elected to charge Backs with criminal threat in connection with comments made to two students in his dorm, county attorney John Gutierrez declined to file misdemeanor charges of bringing weapons to a state building, in part because the university did not have the signage posted.
    On Sept. 3, Backs was arrested after university police found a shotgun, a cache of ammunition and more than a half-dozen knives in his car and dorm room.
    Farha says that there are a few statutes relating to concealed carry laws in Kansas. One law says having guns on state property is illegal, but only if signs are posted. However, another says that guns on state property are, without exception, illegal, even if no signs are posted.

    Gov. Kathleen Sebelius vetoed new legislation requiring that signs must be present for carriers to be fined, saying in a letter that "this bill would prevent communities from banning (guns) at... events such as city or county sports fields" and set up "greater inconsistencies" within the law, but the Legislature overturned her veto.
    To settle the issue once and for all, PSU will post a "hybrid sign" that will meet the requirements of every statute on the books.
    "We're just going to make it now so that there's no question," Farha said.
    According to the Personal and Family Protection Act, these signs must be at least 8 inches by 8 inches, with a 6-inch graphic depicting a gun with a red cross.
    Steve Erwin, vice president for auxiliary services and academic affairs, says the signs will offer two benefits:
    "One, it gives us the opportunity to prosecute," Erwin said. "Secondarily, it serves as a public reminder of the university's intent, and reminds people that the campus is no place for a firearm."
    Both Erwin and Farha served on a safety committee comprised of around a dozen members that decided to post the signs. Erwin says that there wasn't much argument about whether or not to go forward with the plan.
    "It was more (a matter of) one, determining that it was indeed required, and two, figuring out the logistics," Erwin said.
    Erwin says that although the signs have to be placed "conspicuously," the campus's aesthetics will still be taken into account.
    "To truly serve notice... it's going to take a significant amount of placement," Erwin said. "Aesthetics of the campus are important and we're trying to consider that as we address this issue."
    No matter the effects on the campus environment, Farha says PSU will be one of the first colleges in Kansas to implement the signage.
    "We're going to be at the forefront of this," he said.


  2. #2
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    K.S.A 21-4218 makes it illegal to posess a firearm or other weapon in posted state buildings, but not the grounds. I am not sure that the signs meet the requirements to prevent CC. There must be at least 1" all around the symbol with no writing. I believe the writing is a little less than 1" below the symbol, although I have not measured them. The signs started going up right before Christmas. Not all of the building were marked before Christmas.


    KU has areas posted as being gun free, which I do not believe is enforcable.

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    As far as concealed carry goes check out K.S.A. 75-7c10 for places you cannot CCH.

    Other related statues are:
    75-7c11
    75-7c12
    21-4201
    21-4204
    21-4204a

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    Farha says that having guns on campus is already against school policy, and is just cause for expulsion or other punitive measures. But with the new signs in place, having weapons on campus, whether they be firearms or knives over 4 inches long, will be a misdemeanor crime punishable by fine.
    [sarcasm]Because that is going to stop a determined criminal, as always.[/sarcasm]

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    I have a feeling that criminal use of weapon charges will be overlooked in an active shooter situation.

    YMMV of course.

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