Article I $ 21 Defense Fund for Greg Rotz's appeal of his Orwellian LTCF revocation

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.40 Cal wrote:

Does anyone else see a discrepancy in the Sherriff's signatures? Can we say forgery in the county office?

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Hmm I just looked, and the signatures do indeed look nothing alike, except for the name.

:shock:

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Good eye!! I hadn't noticed that. I'm sure that will be pawned off as someone authorized to sign on his behalf. Of course if that is the case they should be signing their name and not his........ Don't they realize that one of those rubber stamps are only a few bucks?

I'm watching this thread very closely. I asked about the legality of carrying to vote the week before elections and only got positive responces. The one thing that was mentioned in my thread was concerning schools. Was this polling place in a school?

I think the first question that the sherrif should be required to answer is what "illegal manner" he is referring to. Secondly, the sherrif references Title 18, Section 6109, paragraph (e)(1)(i):
There is a huge discrepancy between "illegal manner" and the reason stated! That subparagraph is related to reasons why a permit can be denied (and revoked), but in no way references any violation of any laws. If the sherrif thinks this gentleman broke the law, he should arrest him. If he thinks his character and reputation are bad, then revoke the permit. He can't have it both ways! And by me saying revoke the permit I am in no way agreeing with the sherrif's actions. He will have a hard time convincing the judge that this one act, which was legal, encompasses ones character and reputation.

As I said, I'm very interested in this and wish I had the funds to donate. This may turn into THE case concerning PA carry rights. (Glad I'm moving next spring.) After this we all may never be able to carry again.... or there will be clarification on one of the many vague wordings within our state's firearm laws. Good luck!!

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The issue would be that if someone else reviewed and signed off on this revocation without cause (if this is the case), how many other instances has his name gone out without the correct due process or knowledge of the law? How many un-vocalized injustices can be attributed to this and so many other counties?

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The letter was signed by two different people, but notice the signature on the revocation letter has 2 or maybe 3 letters at the end of the sheriffs name. Look just to the right of the letter g. That is probably the initials of the signer.

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Did I oversleep, miss my stop and end up in RED CHINA ?

This is an outrage ! I would probably refuse to turn the permit in, get arrested and sue for false arrest.

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just a guy, with a Glock wrote:

...I would probably refuse to turn the permit in, get arrested and sue for false arrest.

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My thoughts exactly.

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Any news regarding the cert that contained more details?

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imperialism2024 wrote:

Any news regarding the cert that contained more details?

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Sorry guys, I've been busy and have only been updating the PAFOA threads when I get a minute:

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/conceale...9-hassled-polls-ocing-page-22.html#post135586

The cert letter was the same as the one rcv'd on Friday.

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Pa. Patriot wrote:

The cert letter was the same as the one rcv'd on Friday.

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Bah.

What's really troublesome, though, is the broader idea that the state (I'm guessing this is a form letter) or at least the county expect people to unquestioningly surrender their LTCFs based on such a vague accusation. If I get my driver's license revoked, PENNDOT will at least let me know specifically why it was revoked, not just send me a notice telling me that it's for "apparent illegal conduct".

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[size=-1][font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Sorry, there are some formatting issues, trying again:[/font][/size]

[size=-1][font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Title 18, U.S.C., Section 245
Federally Protected Activities [/font][/size]

[size=-1][font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]1) This statute prohibits willful injury, intimidation, or interference, or attempt to do so, by force or threat of force of any person or class of persons because of their activity as:[/font][/size]

[size=-1][font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]a) A voter, or person qualifying to vote...;

[/font][/size]

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Mainsail wrote:

[size=-1][font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Sorry, there are some formatting issues, trying again:[/font][/size]

[size=-1][font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]Title 18, U.S.C., Section 245
Federally Protected Activities [/font][/size]

[size=-1][font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]1) This statute prohibits willful injury, intimidation, or interference, or attempt to do so, by force or threat of force of any person or class of persons because of their activity as:[/font][/size]

[size=-1][font="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"]a) A voter, or person qualifying to vote...;[/font][/size]

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Great catch!

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Hi.

I just joined the forum, and since this issue with gnbrotz is one of the reasons I came here, I thought I'd start my posting right here.

I'm also a member on the PAFOA(Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association)forum.
(Hi guys! I see there are a lot more of you here than I had anticipated.)
Pa. Patriot is the one who initially informed me of this forum.

I'm quite aware of the situation already and I'll be sending a donation to assist gnbrotz with his legal fees.

I've only been OCing for about 5 months or so, and it's mostly just while walking the dog around my neighborhood. The support I'm seeing for gnbrotz is comforting, and it's the reason I'll continue to carry openly when I feel it is appropriate.

gnbrotz, hang in there! You have a lot of people's support and prayers.

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Gave what I could offer. Good luck, buddy.

Lew

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Minor update.

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Aw hell, who let EM on the forums, bad PA. Patriot j/k

Greg you know you got everyone behind ya just say the word if ya need anything else.

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Hopefully the next update will include a hearing date. Since the post volume on PAFOA is much greater, I'll be posting most of any available info there, but will bump and link this thread as necessary for folks who may not visit PAFOA regularly.

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dont forget an address to the place, if I can i'd like to show up in support of ya.

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I'll have an address, gps coords and link to a google map....don't worry, if folks want to come, I'll make sure they have the info they need to get there.

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So, gnbrotz, are you enjoying the fun of unlicensed OCing in the mean time?

I'm having a problem with how the burden of proof is being placed on the defendant (so to speak) of proving his innocence. Not to mention that he is being crippled in his ability to defend himself while the courts drag their feet to bring up a hearing date. Just utterly criminal behavior, really.

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imperialism2024 wrote:

So, gnbrotz, are you enjoying the fun of unlicensed OCing in the mean time?

I'm having a problem with how the burden of proof is being placed on the defendant (so to speak) of proving his innocence. Not to mention that he is being crippled in his ability to defend himself while the courts drag their feet to bring up a hearing date. Just utterly criminal behavior, really.

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Yeah, its kind of disgusting that the sheriff (Beuford T Justice) can just revoke without really looking into the matter....
The way *I* understand the revocation appeal hearing, it's similar to a criminal preceding. IOW, you go into court and rather than "prove" your innocence, the opposition must prove their action, to which you can defend yourself. The cost of loosing is the revocation stands, but your not on the spot to "prove" your innocence.
Hope I'm right