WAC

Trigger Dr · Nov 11, 2007

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CC27

Why don't you just call Leland Bull @ 206 324-6709 and ask him as he is the one in charge of By-laws and resolutions. Or e-mail them at office@washingtonarmscollectors.org

Would you let me simply walk into your house or business, armed, having NEVER met me? I think not.

Also your statement" Man I bet the anti gun nuts reading this love you" would apply more to you than WAC members. Wac is an organization that promotes....Nah never mind, you would not understand. I should delete this post remembering the saying If you argue with a fool, no one can tell which is which

CC27 · Nov 11, 2007

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You are right, I probably am jumping the gun. But I do think they should be held to a higher stander than lets say Walmart or the Tacoma mall.

I think I'm going to back offfor now I obviously don't have enough support to get anything done. But if anyone does have info about this or a contact # or e-mail address I would appreciate it.

I apologise too anyone I offended or pissed off.

CC27 · Nov 11, 2007

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I posted my last post before I saw the wonderful post by Trigger Dr. Thank you for the E-mail address. I sent a E-mail. Hopefully I will get a response soon. Your right I probably wouldn't understand because I don't understand aorg. that is pro gun rights that has a rule like this.

jonnyjeeps · Nov 11, 2007

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Hey CC its not hypocracy on the part of wac its common sense. Take an unarmed group of people and sprinkle in some armed security: chances of AD are what they are SLIM. Now take the same group and give them all loaded weapons: chances of AD are a whole lot greater. Plus if all patrons are unloaded then they are free unholster and holster weapons, try magazines, andplay with all the cool gadjets. Dont think for a second that everyone is as "GUN SAVY" as you. Some of the people walking around in there scare me when I know the guns arent loaded.

CC27 · Nov 11, 2007

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You know, I may be way off base on this one. But my gut tells me different. In any case I'm just going to let this go. I did not intend to make any enemies and I again apologize to anyone I offended. All in all this site seems to be a great one.

Misguided Child · Nov 12, 2007

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Moderators

I think this entire thread should be deleted. The poll is poorly written and reflects badly on the members of the board and gun owners in general.

WAC's policy is based on keeping people safer in the gun show with a wide variety of people attending with unknown levels of education and skill with firearms.

CC27's 2nd option, do "nothing because they sell things we like" is just more of his sarcasm and doesn't address the issue of safety or any other reasoned answer for following the policy.

This implies (as intended)that the members of the board don't care about our rights or safety issues...as long as weget our guns.

Alan

Bear 45/70 · Nov 12, 2007

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Misguided Child wrote:

Moderators

I think this entire thread should be deleted. The poll is poorly written and reflects badly on the members of the board and gun owners in general.

WAC's policy is based on keeping people safer in the gun show with a wide variety of people attending with unknown levels of education and skill with firearms.

CC27's 2nd option, do "nothing because they sell things we like" is just more of his sarcasm and doesn't address the issue of safety or any other reasoned answer for following the policy.

This implies (as intended)that the members of the board don't care about our rights or safety issues...as long as weget our guns.

Alan

The WAC policy is based on kissing the owners of the fairground butt so they can continue to make money. Safety has nothing to do with it.

Mainsail · Nov 12, 2007

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WAC's policy is based on keeping people safer in the gun show with a wide variety of people attending with unknown levels of education and skill with firearms.

[Wal-Mart’s] policy is based on keeping people safer in the [store] with a wide variety of people…

[Wright Park’s] policy is based on keeping people safer in the [park] with a wide variety of people…

[Olympia’s] policy is based on keeping people safer in the [city] with a wide variety of people…

See how easily that false logic fits?

Mainsail · Nov 12, 2007

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There are segments of society who truly believe that the general populace is far too stupid and reckless to allow them private ownership and carry of firearms. They want them banned for that reason. For these groups, it’s not about government control and tyranny; it’s safety. They believe that only the properly trained government employees should be in possession of firearms. They believe that a sweeping ban on firearms will stop crime and accidental shootings. IOW, we all have to sacrifice due to the few who actually are too stupid to own or carry a firearm.

It’s ironic that WAC would attempt to try to pass off their anti-firearms carry policy using the same terms and logic as those who want to ban guns altogether.

It’s not the guns that cause crime; it’s the criminals.
It’s not the careless handling; it’s the person who is carelessly handling the gun.

This is what their policy should be: Ban the careless. If anyone pulls a gun that has not been previously zipped, they are immediately escorted out of the show. No second chances, no refunds, no bullshit. As long as your loaded carry handgun is and stays in its holster, you are safe.

Hillbillly · Nov 12, 2007

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I agree with ya ...I want to feel safe at the gun show and God only know what kind of fool might have a gun ( yes fool ) if someone was to try to do something stupid ( against the law ) it would be like Nam all over again for me people dead everywhere yes I do carry everyday ( glock 40 S&W ) but when I go to the local gun show in Monore I leave my Glock in the trunk of my car ...yes without fear of it being stold..

Misguided Child · Nov 12, 2007

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I agree with the previous 4 posts, all of which are off topic. There is another thread titled "prohibiting loaded guns at gun shows (by request) where they should have been posted.

This thread is a POLL. Appropriate responses would be votes and comments as to why you voted that way.

My post and point is that it is an asinine poll and shouldn't be here. It is poorly written. I can't imagine any thinking person being swayed by votes for either option presented.

Personally I would ignore WACs policy and carry concealed anyway. I didn't leave my $300 camera out on the motorcycle either.

Ravenhawk · Nov 12, 2007

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What do you think should be done about WAC's policy about loaded guns at their show?

I think it should be followed.

Just because we have the right to open carry doesn't mean others must let us go into thier homes/buisiness's open carrying. Other people have rights too ...

CC27 · Nov 12, 2007

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I totally understand this. The point I was trying to make is other private businesses are flamed and put on the do not patronize list while WAC's policy on carry is accepted without question. As far as the pole, it is very simple to understand 1:see if we can get WAC to change their policy, if not add them to the do not patronize list. 2: Don't treat WAC as we do other businesses because of what they sell. I don't see what is so asinine about that.

BluesBear · Nov 13, 2007

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CC27 wrote:

The point I was trying to make is other private businesses are flamed and put on the do not patronize list while WAC's policy on carry is accepted without question.

But NONE of those "other private businesses" allow thousands of people to fondle and wave about firearms for hours on end. In those other businesses NO ONE is handling a firearm. It's easy to keep track of what's what that way.

Go to a large gunshow and instead of looking at guns start looking only at people handling guns. Then ask yourself if you still want to allow just everyoneto carry. Not everyone is as responsible as you are or as I am or as most of us here are. Just look around there are a lot of dumbass people at gunshows. There are a lot of dumbass people (in every state) that carry firearms. Do really want THEM to be able to carry a loaded weapon in a gunshow?

I have been on errornet gun forums for many years now. I have chatted with several people who, if I were to meet them face to face, I would be afraid of them carrying a weapon. Because if they acted one tenth as reckless in person as they talked they would be a menace. In fact I was kicked off of one forum for making the comment thatwhat someone had advised was reckless behavoiur and I said that I was sure glad they weren't shooting at my range because I'd be afraid. Stck around the boards long enough and you'll find people like that too.

So when you do find one of those people ask yourself, if you were the one running a gunshow, would you want them to carry loaded?

Imagine now that CC27 is the Gunshow God. It's HIS gunshow.

If you're going to allowed loaded carry you're going to have to allow everyone and anyone . Even the stupid people. And kicking them out AFTER they have drawn a "prohibited" weapon is REACTIVE. Taking ACTION to prevent them from having a loaded weapon to begun with is proactive. And ACTION beats REACTION every time.

Also, what makes you think that your security people can move fast enough in a crowded roomtostop anyone who draws a loaded weapon from having an "accident"? Do you realize how many security personel you would need to ensure that not one of the 5,000 people in that crowded room drew a loaded weapon when they weren't supposed to? Now you're talking Gestapo.

Mainsail · Nov 13, 2007

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BluesBear wrote:

CC27 wrote:

The point I was trying to make is other private businesses are flamed and put on the do not patronize list while WAC's policy on carry is accepted without question.

Click to expand...

But NONE of those "other private businesses" allow thousands of people to fondle and wave about firearms for hours on end. In those other businesses NO ONE is handling a firearm. It's easy to keep track of what's what that way.

So who is causing the problems, the idiot gun owners, or the idiot vendors? It doesn’t matter what the justification is, they are using the exact same playbook as the anti-gunners. Under the current scheme, idiots are allowed to remain idiots because nobody is pointing out their idiocy. That is far more damaging to our rights than anything else.

Like I’ve been saying, as you enter you are asked about firearms carry (something they are already doing) – if you are -then you are directed to unload and have your gun zipped (again, something they are already doing) only if you intend to remove it from the holster. The vendors are advised that if they observe anyone removing a gun from a holster to contact security immediately, and the other patrons are briefed the same.

expvideo · Nov 13, 2007

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I carry a gun to feel safe. At the gun show I feel safe, because I am surrounded by like-minded people, and someone will be able and willing to quickly produce a loaded firearm (cut zip-tie, insert magazine or speedloader... doesn't take too long) if the need be. Not to mention the security folks are probably armed. When I am shopping at Joes sporting goods, they have no way to ensure my safety, and I'm not surrounded by like-minded people willing to defend the lives of the people in the store.

To me, it's a question of basic safety. If it's safe to shop there unarmed, I have no problem being unarmed. My deffinition of "safe to shop there" is much different from the corporate store's deffinition, and pretty much only applies to gun shows. Therefor, they are the exception to the rule, in my opinion.

A little clarification on "safe to shop there"... My definition:there are people available that are able and willing to protect me with the same kind of skillfirepower I would protect myself.

Cue-Ball · Nov 13, 2007

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BluesBear wrote:

Go to a large gunshow and instead of looking at guns start looking only at people handling guns. Then ask yourself if you still want to allow just everyoneto carry. Not everyone is as responsible as you are or as I am or as most of us here are. Just look around there are a lot of dumbass people at gunshows. There are a lot of dumbass people (in every state) that carry firearms. Do really want THEM to be able to carry a loaded weapon in a gunshow?

Yes, I do want them to be able to carry. I want everyone to be able to exercise their Second Amendment right until they demonstrate that they cannot bear the responsibility.

If you're going to allowed loaded carry you're going to have to allow everyone and anyone . Even the stupid people. And kicking them out AFTER they have drawn a "prohibited" weapon is REACTIVE. Taking ACTION to prevent them from having a loaded weapon to begun with is proactive. And ACTION beats REACTION every time.

This is the exact same logic that the anti-gun lobby uses. "We need to take the ACTION to remove weapons before something happens, rather than the REACTION of only punishing people who've actually done something wrong". That is a very poor policy which punishes the innocent for crimes that have never even been committed.

I didn't answer the poll, but I will say this...I have never been to a WAC show, primarily because of the no guns rule. I've thought about going many times but I cannot, in good conscience, support a group who would disarm me. If WAC changed their no guns policy, I would be much, much more likely to attend their shows and purchase from their vendors.

If the WAC shows are really as unsafe as some of the people here have described, then perhaps the no loaded weapons rule is the wrong tactic to address the problem. Maybe "aim here" signs for use when trying out a weapon and better control over the vendors and patrons is in order?

Misguided Child · Nov 13, 2007

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Mainsail wrote:

Like I’ve been saying, as you enter you are asked about firearms carry (something they are already doing) – if you are -then you are directed to unload and have your gun zipped (again, something they are already doing) only if you intend to remove it from the holster. The vendors are advised that if they observe anyone removing a gun from a holster to contact security immediately, and the other patrons are briefed the same.

So, we can carry as long as we don't intend to remove the gun from it's holster??

CC27 · Nov 13, 2007

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Misguided Child wrote:

Mainsail wrote:

Like I’ve been saying, as you enter you are asked about firearms carry (something they are already doing) – if you are -then you are directed to unload and have your gun zipped (again, something they are already doing) only if you intend to remove it from the holster. The vendors are advised that if they observe anyone removing a gun from a holster to contact security immediately, and the other patrons are briefed the same.

Click to expand...

So, we can carry as long as we don't intend to remove the gun from it's holster??

Yes, It looks to me like that is what Mainsail is saying. This suggested change is exactly what I would like to see. Never should you have a reasion for removingaloaded gun from your holster, unless life is at-steak.

Mainsail · Nov 13, 2007

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Misguided Child wrote:

Mainsail wrote:

Like I’ve been saying, as you enter you are asked about firearms carry (something they are already doing) – if you are -then you are directed to unload and have your gun zipped (again, something they are already doing) only if you intend to remove it from the holster. The vendors are advised that if they observe anyone removing a gun from a holster to contact security immediately, and the other patrons are briefed the same.

Click to expand...

So, we can carry as long as we don't intend to remove the gun from it's holster??

That is my compromise proposal policy. (It’s pretty much the same as the policy in place at Sportsman’s Warehouse.) WAC policy right now is to disarm everybody because some people are too stupid to follow basic firearms safety rules. Guess what, display of a firearm that warrants alarm for the safety of others is already illegal in Washington.

WAC

What do you think should be done about WAC's policy about loaded guns at their show?

Boycott if they do not change this policy.

Nothing because they sell things we like.

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