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WAC

What do you think should be done about WAC's policy about loaded guns at their show?

  • Boycott if they do not change this policy.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Nothing because they sell things we like.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
P

Preston1911

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Cue-Ball wrote:
Being reactive is the only true way to punish the guilty and protect the innocent. "Being proactive" is a nice feel-good statement, but it leads to abuses of the law and loss of rights (and this is the perfect example). Punishing people when no crime has been committed is how we got all of the draconian laws that we have right now.

You're right, I do want to be the gun show cop. I want you to as well. I want everyone who attends these shows to be gun show cops. Isn't carrying a firearm about personal responsibility? Shouldn't we be policing ourselves and educating others so that we're all safe, happy, and able to exercise our rights? If I see my neighbor doing something to endanger himself I would much rather tell him than sit back and say "at least it's not loaded".

Your solution is simple because it only gives two options: 1) go to the gun show and accept a policy that you may not like. 2) don't go to the show.
I'm proposing a third alternative which is to change the policy. Personally, I think this is much preferable to the other two options, though I know it will probably never happen.
Click to expand...
Cue ball,

The WAC guns shows are open to the public, anyone can buy a ticket and walk in. I attend every show and have for several years. All walks of life come and handle guns. Many of them have never held a handgun in their life. Hundreds come through each show who handle guns and cannot even afford to buy one. The last show I saw an idiot pick up a weapon with a lazer and started pointing at several people. Accidental discharges happen. About 20 years ago, I was 5 feet from a gentlemen at a WAC show who was running a booth. He picked up a 22 revolver and shot a hole through his left hand. He was experience, made a mistake and paid for it. It obviously startled me. Please don't judge WAC until you have become a member and had a chance to meet the great citizens, officer, silver and bronze star winners, purple heart recievers, and law obiding patriots. WAC is a great club.
 
D

Dave Workman

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Bear 45/70
The WAC policy is based on kissing the owners of the fairground butt so they can continue to make money.  Safety has nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...

That's a lie, an an almighty stupid one at that.

There have been at least two Negligent Discharge incidents at WAC shows on the Puyallup fairgrounds over the years that I know about, and another could get the WAC shows banned from the place. That may not matter to you, but it does to the WAC membership and the organization officers.

I know of a gun show incident in Atlanta a few years ago where some bonehead was buying a new holster for his handgun, so he whips out the pistol to fit it to the holster and it discharged...killing his son. Everyone who operates a gun show remembers that one, and I wrote about it.

Long time WAC members understand this prohibition, and it is because of idiots like that Atlanta guy that the loaded firearm prohibition is in place. The Puyallup fairgrounds does not allow loaded guns, and this may come as a blow to somebody's ego, but when you visit a gun show put on by an organization, you visit under THEIR rules, not yours.
 
A

Agent 47

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Dave Workman wrote:
Bear 45/70
The WAC policy is based on kissing the owners of the fairground butt so they can continue to make money. Safety has nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...

That's a lie, an an almighty stupid one at that.
Click to expand...
Yeah, we get a lot of those from ol' teddy bear.
 
G

glocknroll

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Excuse my intrusion into a Washington state problem. We have run into the same problem here. We have gun shows in municipal buildings, where we have the right to carry. Signs at the door state all guns must be unloaded and tied, which is unenforceable, from a legal standpoint. It is the insurance company that makes these rules. Without insurance, there can be no gun shows.

Yes, it sucks. As a private corporation, the insurance company has the right to set it's own rules. I don't like it, but what can you do? It is the same as any business forbidding carrying on their property. Personally, I carry concealed at gun shows. I know there are no legal ramifications, so I don't worry about breaking the insurance comany's rules. That way the outfit running the gun show can claim compliance with the insurance company contract, and I can still carry my firearm. Sometimes you have to sidestep the bulldozer, instead of trying to meet it head on.
 
P

Preston1911

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Dave Workman wrote:
Bear 45/70
The WAC policy is based on kissing the owners of the fairground butt so they can continue to make money. Safety has nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...

That's a lie, an an almighty stupid one at that.

There have been at least two Negligent Discharge incidents at WAC shows on the Puyallup fairgrounds over the years that I know about, and another could get the WAC shows banned from the place. That may not matter to you, but it does to the WAC membership and the organization officers.

I know of a gun show incident in Atlanta a few years ago where some bonehead was buying a new holster for his handgun, so he whips out the pistol to fit it to the holster and it discharged...killing his son. Everyone who operates a gun show remembers that one, and I wrote about it.

Long time WAC members understand this prohibition, and it is because of idiots like that Atlanta guy that the loaded firearm prohibition is in place. The Puyallup fairgrounds does not allow loaded guns, and this may come as a blow to somebody's ego, but when you visit a gun show put on by an organization, you visit under THEIR rules, not yours.
Click to expand...

Dave,

I am a long time WAC memeber, went to the show today and picked up Crimson Trace for the Glock, green laser for the CAR 97 and ammo for the .45. I enjoyed the show as I always do. I say let the boycotters boycott, WAC will never miss them. They are probably left wing anti gunners infiltrating the gun culture to try a clever way to shut down gun shows.
 
T

Trigger Dr

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Glocknroll said "Sometimes you have to sidestep the bulldozer, instead of trying to meet it head on."

Sounds like those that like to obey only their own rules, to hell with everyone else.
 
G

glocknroll

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Trigger Dr wrote:
Glocknroll said "Sometimes you have to sidestep the bulldozer, instead of trying to meet it head on."

Sounds like those that like to obey only their own rules, to hell with everyone else.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
 
G

glocknroll

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Trigger Dr wrote:
Glocknroll,

re read your post then think about it.

Jim
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. You're right, I won't follow a dumb ass rule like that. It isn't a law, just something the insurance company wants. It is completely unenforceable, from a legal standpoint. At least here in Virginia, where we have statewide preemption and gun shows are held at public venues, it is unenforceable.

If I wanted to say the hell with everyone else, I would openly refuse to obey the rule. There is nothing the promoter of the show could do about it. This could possibly cause him to lose his insurance, meaning that there could be no more gun shows. I won't comply with a rule that denies my rights on public property, but I also don't want to create a situation that prevents others from being ableto attend a gun show.So I choose to step out of the way of the insurance bulldozer, and go on about my business in a low profile manner.

If the shows here were held on private property, I would respect the property rights of the owner and simply not attend.
 
B

BluesBear

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But it IS a bit different here. The shows we are discussing are hosted by the Washington Arms Collectors.

Unlike most other shows around the country, only WAC members can buy, sell firearms at their shows. Also unlile many arms collectors association members pay ZERO to attend any or allof thetwenty-two(yes 22)shows WAC sponsors each year. And only members are allowed to bring any firearm into the show. Concealed orunconcealed it doesn't matter, a non-member may NOT possess any sort of firearm inside a WAC show. So breaking the rule of possessing a loaded firearm inside the show controlled area is grounds for revocation of membership.

This has been discussed, cussed and debated for years. The rule has stood the test of time and I predict will continue to do so. Do I personally agree with the rule? Not really. Can I live with the rule? Yes because I cannot think of a better way.

Life is a series of compromises. It is up to each and everyone of us to choose our boundaries. When I enter a WAC event (I have only missed ONE since September 2004 - In fact the only shows I have missed attending since 1999 were because I was either out of town or in the hospital) I have to choose between my right to carry a loaded firearm and their right to prevent the occurrence of loaded firearms. I have to make almost the same decision when I visit my doctors at Harborview. At least WAC has a clearing barrel at the front door. Whereas Harbor view won't even let me bring in an unloaded sidearm.

So until further notice I will continue to unload to attend all of the WAC shows and to disarm with I visit my doctors. Am I being a hypocrite? I don't think so because I continue to complain about it. Obeying a rule you personally don't believe in doesn't make you a hypocrite. Personally,I feel the 55mph speed limit on Hwy 9 between Lake Stevens and Arlington is silly. (It should be 60mph just as it is on Hwy 2.) Am I a hypocrite because I drive 55? Or am I just choosing to obey the rules? After all I have the right to drive as fast as I wish. And the State Patrol has the right to give me a ticket if I exceed their speed limit.

I believe that WAC does more to support the RKBA than any other "gunshow" organizer that I have ever known and I have been a member of over a dozen in my lifetime. In fact the show is only a small portion of what they do. In the case of most local arms collector groups, the show is their only concern.

I choose to unload to attend a WAC show. That's my personal choice. If anyone else has a conscience that won't allow them to do so then so be it. I won't chide them for their decision.

Just as I will not chide anyone for wearing Levi's clothing. Or for eating Ben & Jerry's ice cream or joining the AARP. All have been notably long-term anti-gun companies. So go ahead and place WAC on the DNP list. I'm sure we have members who choose to shop at several that are already on the list. After all we have thousands of gun owners who continue to vote for anti-gun politicians.

 
B

BluesBear

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Monroe, Washington, USA
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Dave Workman wrote:
Bear 45/70
The WAC policy is based on kissing the owners of the fairground butt so they can continue to make money. Safety has nothing to do with it.
Click to expand...

That's a lie, an an almighty stupid one at that.
Click to expand...
And Dave should know. He's on the WAC Board of Directors. He's not just someone sitting in front of a keyboard spouting nonsense. Damn few of us here have done one-half as much to preserve our RKBA as he has.
 
H

heresolong

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Oct 4, 2007
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Blaine, WA, ,
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Dave Workman wrote:
The Puyallup fairgrounds does not allow loaded guns, and this may come as a blow to somebody's ego, but when you visit a gun show put on by an organization, you visit under THEIR rules, not yours.
Click to expand...
Just out of curiousity how does the PCF get away with prohibiting loaded guns? They should fall under state preemption. I can understand how they might impose this on their tenants such as the WAC (maybe) but can they ban loaded handguns in general even for those of us with a CPP?
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

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heresolong wrote:
Dave Workman wrote:
The Puyallup fairgrounds does not allow loaded guns, and this may come as a blow to somebody's ego, but when you visit a gun show put on by an organization, you visit under THEIR rules, not yours.
Click to expand...
Just out of curiousity how does the PCF get away with prohibiting loaded guns? They should fall under state preemption. I can understand how they might impose this on their tenants such as the WAC (maybe) but can they ban loaded handguns in general even for those of us with a CPP?
Click to expand...
I believe they are a private entity.

Evergreen State Fairgrounds in Monroe, on the other hand, is not (State-run, so under state law), but I suspect that WAC simply has one rule that complies with both locations for simplicity, even though there's no "property right" argument that could be brought in the Monroe situation.
 
P

Preston1911

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BluesBear wrote:
But it IS a bit different here. The shows we are discussing are hosted by the Washington Arms Collectors.

Unlike most other shows around the country, only WAC members can buy, sell firearms at their shows. Also unlile many arms collectors association members pay ZERO to attend any or allof thetwenty-two(yes 22)shows WAC sponsors each year. And only members are allowed to bring any firearm into the show. Concealed orunconcealed it doesn't matter, a non-member may NOT possess any sort of firearm inside a WAC show. So breaking the rule of possessing a loaded firearm inside the show controlled area is grounds for revocation of membership.

This has been discussed, cussed and debated for years. The rule has stood the test of time and I predict will continue to do so. Do I personally agree with the rule? Not really. Can I live with the rule? Yes because I cannot think of a better way.

Life is a series of compromises. It is up to each and everyone of us to choose our boundaries. When I enter a WAC event (I have only missed ONE since September 2004 - In fact the only shows I have missed attending since 1999 were because I was either out of town or in the hospital) I have to choose between my right to carry a loaded firearm and their right to prevent the occurrence of loaded firearms. I have to make almost the same decision when I visit my doctors at Harborview. At least WAC has a clearing barrel at the front door. Whereas Harbor view won't even let me bring in an unloaded sidearm.

So until further notice I will continue to unload to attend all of the WAC shows and to disarm with I visit my doctors. Am I being a hypocrite? I don't think so because I continue to complain about it. Obeying a rule you personally don't believe in doesn't make you a hypocrite. Personally,I feel the 55mph speed limit on Hwy 9 between Lake Stevens and Arlington is silly. (It should be 60mph just as it is on Hwy 2.) Am I a hypocrite because I drive 55? Or am I just choosing to obey the rules? After all I have the right to drive as fast as I wish. And the State Patrol has the right to give me a ticket if I exceed their speed limit.

I believe that WAC does more to support the RKBA than any other "gunshow" organizer that I have ever known and I have been a member of over a dozen in my lifetime. In fact the show is only a small portion of what they do. In the case of most local arms collector groups, the show is their only concern.

I choose to unload to attend a WAC show. That's my personal choice. If anyone else has a conscience that won't allow them to do so then so be it. I won't chide them for their decision.

Just as I will not chide anyone for wearing Levi's clothing. Or for eating Ben & Jerry's ice cream or joining the AARP. All have been notably long-term anti-gun companies. So go ahead and place WAC on the DNP list. I'm sure we have members who choose to shop at several that are already on the list. After all we have thousands of gun owners who continue to vote for anti-gun politicians.

Click to expand...
Bear,

very well said. thank you. Did you run into Trigger Dr. this weekend at the show. I went and spent way too much money.

thanks for your great insight.

Preston
 
J

joeroket

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Right Wing Wacko wrote:
However the MONROE fairgrounds is run by Snohomish County
Click to expand...
Right you are but Snohomish County is not the one saying no firearms. The law says nothing about private entities prohibiting firearms, only municipalities and WAC is far from a municipality.
 
G

glocknroll

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BluesBear wrote:
But it IS a bit different here. The shows we are discussing are hosted by the Washington Arms Collectors.

Unlike most other shows around the country, only WAC members can buy, sell firearms at their shows. Also unlile many arms collectors association members pay ZERO to attend any or allof thetwenty-two(yes 22)shows WAC sponsors each year. And only members are allowed to bring any firearm into the show. Concealed orunconcealed it doesn't matter, a non-member may NOT possess any sort of firearm inside a WAC show. So breaking the rule of possessing a loaded firearm inside the show controlled area is grounds for revocation of membership.

This has been discussed, cussed and debated for years. The rule has stood the test of time and I predict will continue to do so. Do I personally agree with the rule? Not really. Can I live with the rule? Yes because I cannot think of a better way.

Life is a series of compromises. It is up to each and everyone of us to choose our boundaries. When I enter a WAC event (I have only missed ONE since September 2004 - In fact the only shows I have missed attending since 1999 were because I was either out of town or in the hospital) I have to choose between my right to carry a loaded firearm and their right to prevent the occurrence of loaded firearms. I have to make almost the same decision when I visit my doctors at Harborview. At least WAC has a clearing barrel at the front door. Whereas Harbor view won't even let me bring in an unloaded sidearm.

So until further notice I will continue to unload to attend all of the WAC shows and to disarm with I visit my doctors. Am I being a hypocrite? I don't think so because I continue to complain about it. Obeying a rule you personally don't believe in doesn't make you a hypocrite. Personally,I feel the 55mph speed limit on Hwy 9 between Lake Stevens and Arlington is silly. (It should be 60mph just as it is on Hwy 2.) Am I a hypocrite because I drive 55? Or am I just choosing to obey the rules? After all I have the right to drive as fast as I wish. And the State Patrol has the right to give me a ticket if I exceed their speed limit.

I believe that WAC does more to support the RKBA than any other "gunshow" organizer that I have ever known and I have been a member of over a dozen in my lifetime. In fact the show is only a small portion of what they do. In the case of most local arms collector groups, the show is their only concern.

I choose to unload to attend a WAC show. That's my personal choice. If anyone else has a conscience that won't allow them to do so then so be it. I won't chide them for their decision.

Just as I will not chide anyone for wearing Levi's clothing. Or for eating Ben & Jerry's ice cream or joining the AARP. All have been notably long-term anti-gun companies. So go ahead and place WAC on the DNP list. I'm sure we have members who choose to shop at several that are already on the list. After all we have thousands of gun owners who continue to vote for anti-gun politicians.

Click to expand...

That is most definitely a different situation. If you accept membershipin an organization you should by all means abide by the rules of the organization. If you cannot work from within to change those rules, quit.



I was under the impression that WAC was just another promoter, like SGK (Southeast Guns and Knives) here.
 
B

BluesBear

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glocknroll wrote:
...

I was under the impression that WAC was just another promoter, like SGK (Southeast Guns and Knives) here.
Click to expand...

No, WAC is unlike any show promoter I have ever encountered. Not only do you get 22 shows per year you also get a monthly newsletter that is really more of a magazine than many gun magazines except that it is only printed in black & white.

WAC also has a phone tree and message system to alert members to anything happening in the legislature that affects us as gun owners. Thanks to them our presence is known in Olympia (state capitol) anytime a piece of legislation is up for debate, discussion or public input.

So WAC is really a lot more than just another gun show promoter.
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

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BluesBear wrote:
glocknroll wrote:
...

I was under the impression that WAC was just another promoter, like SGK (Southeast Guns and Knives) here.
Click to expand...

No, WAC is unlike any show promoter I have ever encountered. Not only do you get 22 shows per year you also get a monthly newsletter that is really more of a magazine than many gun magazines except that it is only printed in black & white.

WAC also has a phone tree and message system to alert members to anything happening in the legislature that affects us as gun owners. Thanks to them our presence is known in Olympia (state capitol) anytime a piece of legislation is up for debate, discussion or public input.

So WAC is really a lot more than just another gun show promoter.
Click to expand...

Agreed. And those magazines/newsletters are well-worth, if not worth more than, the cost of membership, alone.

That reminds me, I need to re-up.
 
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