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Thread: Coming to MI for work

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    Hey everyone, quick question for you guys... I am criminal fraud investigator and work all over the US. I have a few CCW permits but live in IL for now. I am coming to MI for work this week and was wondering about your open carry laws. Since I am not a resident of any states that I hold ccw's fro MI will not honor them. So what are the laws on non resident open carry in detroit area?? any help would be great. Thanks

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    Go here and download Issue #46 (08/06): http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...s_185809_7.pdf

    Read the article "Possession of Firearms by Non-Michigan Residents."

    (It's PDF, or I'd just cut and paste it here for you.)

    There are several other good topics in some of the other issues. Might be a good idea to familiarize yourself with them.

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    What law prohibits non residents from using permits from a state that they don't reside in? I don't doubt it exists, I've just never heard of it.

    When you say Detroit area, where abouts do you mean? If you mean Detroit itself, you need to be very cautious before OCing there. The police there are extremely corrupt, and the courts have their heads up their asses.


    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    One of the exceptions to
    MCL 750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.
    is
    MCL 750.231a


    (a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.

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    The info that's presented only applies to carrying concealed. One thing to remember is that if you have a handgun in the passenger compartment of your vehicle, it is considered to be concealed (unless it is stored in compliance with the definition of transporting of a firearm according to MCL).

    Michigan is an open carry state, the question that I do not have an answer to is how to tell if a weapon brought in from out of stateis legal.

    The Michigan State Police website has a lot of good links including one to MichiganFirearm Laws. It is kind of a tough read though :?.

    http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7...654---,00.html

    As always, I am not a lawyer so check it out for yourself first .

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    Unless you have a concealed weapons permit that would be recognized by Michigan you can't even bring a handgun into Michigan unless your going to move here, then you have 10 work days to get it registered but we call it safety inspected. No hunting with a handgun, no OCing etc. Nice thing about Michigan is we recognize all others carry permits. OCing in Michigan is legal per se, you can expect to get arrested for disturbing the peace at the least because most LEO's don't understand the law or ignore it in their own self interest. You would probably beat the charge but it would be expensive to prove the idiot wrong.

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    I can't speak for everywhere in MI, but OC in and around Jackson is not a problem. Myself and others do it on a regular basis. That includes in front of Jackson city, county deputies, and MSP.

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    I am a state resident though.

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    There in lies the key to OC'ing in Michigan. Must be a resident and pistol must be registered properly in your name. Michigan residency establishment requires 6 months then your good to go.

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    I appologize for taking this thread off topic.

    I do not find a6 mos. requirementfor proof of residency. All the purchase permitrequiresis a current address on your MI state DL or MI state ID. The only reference I find for a six mos. res. req. is if you are applying for a CPL, which is not needed for OC.

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    6 months requirement comes about because you cannot obtain a hunting license or concealed pistol permit until you have lived here for the required 6 months. You can register the pistol but they will have to remain home for the 6 months unused except inside the home.

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    Fisherman48768 wrote:
    OCing in Michigan is legal per se, you can expect to get arrested for disturbing the peace at the least because most LEO's don't understand the law or ignore it in their own self interest. You would probably beat the charge but it would be expensive to prove the idiot wrong.

    Try again. There is state wide pre emption of any law which goes beyond state law. State laws do not allow DTP charges for carrying, so neither can cities and townships. Detroit is a wild and wreckless place where anything goes, but other than that, the worst that can be expected, assuming no actuall laws are broken, is to be detained by some imbecile cop for half an hour or so while he calls up the on call prosecutor and finds out he's violating your rights.

    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    In my opinion, you can open carry with a non-resident permit in Michigan. If you have a concealed carry permit from any state and are a U.S. citizenyou have an exemption from the laws that require a permit to posses or open carry and registration. Here's the relevant excerpt from the law:


    28.432 Inapplicability of MCL 28.422 and 28.429; citation as “Janet Kukuk act”.

    (1) Sections 2 and 9 do not apply to any of the following:

    (f) A United States citizen holding a license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by another state.


    Notice there is no mention that the CPL must be issued by your state of residence. Just that you are a U.S. citizen and that you have a license by any other state than Michigan.

    You cannot carry concealed or in your vehicle loaded and/or accessible. While in/upon a vehicle,the pistolmust be unloaded and encased and located in a inaccessible spot from the occupantsor in the trunk if the car is equipped with one. However to be fully legal while transporting you need to have a "lawful purpose" as defined by the following law. Which lays out the exceptions to the concealed weapons law:

    750.231a Exceptions to § 750.227(2); definitions.



    Sec. 231a.

    (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.

    (b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.

    (c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle.

    (d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

    (e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

    (2) As used in this section:

    (a) “Antique firearm” means either of the following:

    (i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898.

    (ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

    (b) “Lawful purpose” includes the following:

    (i) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.

    (ii) While transporting a pistol en route to or from his or her home or place of business and place of repair.

    (iii) While moving goods from 1 place of abode or business to another place of abode or business.

    (iv) While transporting a licensed pistol en route to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed on the pistol as is required by section 9 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.429, or for the purpose of having a law enforcement official take possession of the weapon.

    (v) While en route to or from his or her abode or place of business and a gun show or places of purchase or sale.

    (vi) While en route to or from his or her abode to a public shooting facility or public land where discharge of firearms is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

    (vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

    So, know where the local shooting ranges are, and plan to go get some shooting practice every time you go out in your car. Also it seems that if you are traveling from you place of residence to a business or some other private property where youare permitted by the owner tohave the pistol you have the necessary "lawful purpose".


    [size=2]Finally IANAL and so far I can not get anyone on this site to agree with me on my interpretation of the law. Despite that I have posted the relevant law. So, it seems the chance of a LEOhaving the correct interpretation of the law seem poor. So, you might have to go to court after an arrest to get the correct interpretation of the law. I recommend looking up the relevant laws for yourself and printing them up to show a LEO if you have such a confrontation.










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    Never said you couldn't open carry if you had a valid concealed permit, Notice I said valid then read closely what you posted:

    Notice there is no mention that the CPL must be issued by your state of residence. Just that you are a U.S. citizen and that you have a license by any other state than Michigan.



    Sec. 231a.

    (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.



    What that means is you cannot live in Illinois and have aUtah permit recognized by Michigan. If your from Utah and have a Utah permit then the permit is valid in Michigan and you can bring a pistol in and carry it anyway you want concealed or open. If you carry it open be prepared for some harrassmet if not arrest for inciting or branishing. As I said before you can probably beat both charges but it's going to cost you while the LEO sits on the sideline and laughs at you.

    If you will read the laws closely nowhere does it say you can carry openly, it just doesn't say you can't. Most people are going on the AG's opinion rendered in 1945 which basically says the same thing.

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    Fisherman48768 wrote:
    Never said you couldn't open carry if you had a valid concealed permit, Notice I said valid then read closely what you posted:

    Notice there is no mention that the CPL must be issued by your state of residence. Just that you are a U.S. citizen and that you have a license by any other state than Michigan.



    Sec. 231a.

    (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.



    What that means is you cannot live in Illinois and have aUtah permit recognized by Michigan. If your from Utah and have a Utah permit then the permit is valid in Michigan and you can bring a pistol in and carry it anyway you want concealed or open. If you carry it open be prepared for some harrassmet if not arrest for inciting or branishing. As I said before you can probably beat both charges but it's going to cost you while the LEO sits on the sideline and laughs at you.

    If you will read the laws closely nowhere does it say you can carry openly, it just doesn't say you can't. Most people are going on the AG's opinion rendered in 1945 which basically says the same thing.
    What I was trying to point out is that for a resident of Illinois having a a permit from another state like Utah, a person is exempt from the registration and licensing law which doesn't otherwise allow non-residents of MI to posses, carry, or transporta pistol. So, thus the original poster being an Illinois resident with CC permits from other states can open carry because his permit is recognized as valid for that purpose. Just not for concealed carry.

    There is one law that does mention carry:

    28.422 License to purchase, 28.422 License to purchase, carry, or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications; applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; basic pistol safety brochure; forging application; implementation during business hours.



    Sec. 2.

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not purchase, carry, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section., or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications; applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; basic pistol safety brochure; forging application; implementation during business hours.

    For residents of MI this is your OC license. With CC being illegal without a CPL, the word carry mentioned in this law can only refer to OC if a person does not have a CPL.

    For non-residents the exemption to this law for any U.S. citizen that has a concealed carry permit from any state, their CCW thus becomes a OC only permit if their permit is not recognized for CC because they are not a resident of the state they got it from. Also their permit gives them exemption from the following off-limits places






    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty






    Sec. 234d. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:





    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.





    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.





    (c) A court.





    (d) A theatre.





    (e) A sports arena.





    (f) A day care center.





    (g) A hospital.





    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the





    Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.





    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:





    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.





    (b) A peace officer.





    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.





    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

    Notice the highlighted exemption does not mention anything about residency status.

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    vmaxanarchist

    IANAL either, but I agree with your interpretation because, like the OP, you are refering to OC. MCL 28.422 refers to purchase, carry, and transport. It says nothing about being a Michigan resident. MCL 28.429 refers to residents of MI in regards to the safety insp.

    Fisherman48768

    MCL750.227Refers to concealed weapons. The question of the OP is about open carry.

    Further, a residency requirement for a hunting license has nothing to do with open carry. All you need for a MI drivers license (other than proof of competency), or a MI state ID, is receipts showing a valid address in your name, i.e. a utility bill, rent receipt, paystub, land line phone,etc. These can be obtained in less than 2 weeks. With these, you can get a DL or a state ID, then a purchase permit. There is no minimum time limit on residency to obtain a purchase permit.

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    rsudrick wrote:
    Hey everyone, quick question for you guys... I am criminal fraud investigator and work all over the US. I have a few CCW permits but live in IL for now. I am coming to MI for work this week and was wondering about your open carry laws. Since I am not a resident of any states that I hold ccw's fro MI will not honor them. So what are the laws on non resident open carry in detroit area?? any help would be great. Thanks
    Michigan is known for it's Concealed reciprocity. They recognize every state's concealed permit. If you have a permanent permit, meaning not temporary or a non-resident permit from a state other than your state of residence, it will be good in Michigan for the duration of your visit providing you follow Michigan's laws.

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    who_dat wrote:
    rsudrick wrote:
    Hey everyone, quick question for you guys... I am criminal fraud investigator and work all over the US. I have a few CCW permits but live in IL for now. I am coming to MI for work this week and was wondering about your open carry laws. Since I am not a resident of any states that I hold ccw's fro MI will not honor them. So what are the laws on non resident open carry in detroit area?? any help would be great. Thanks
    Michigan is known for it's Concealed reciprocity. They recognize every state's concealed permit. If you have a permanent permit, meaning not temporary or a non-resident permit from a state other than your state of residence, it will be good in Michigan for the duration of your visit providing you follow Michigan's laws.
    I you had read the OP post carefully, you would have realised he has only non-resident permits. He can't get a resident permit in Illinois like me. Michigan does not recognize non-resident permits for concealed carry. His only option to carryin MI is open carry on foot and unloading and encasing in a vehicle.

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    vmaxanarchist wrote:
    who_dat wrote:
    rsudrick wrote:
    Hey everyone, quick question for you guys... I am criminal fraud investigator and work all over the US. I have a few CCW permits but live in IL for now. I am coming to MI for work this week and was wondering about your open carry laws. Since I am not a resident of any states that I hold ccw's fro MI will not honor them. So what are the laws on non resident open carry in detroit area?? any help would be great. Thanks
    Michigan is known for it's Concealed reciprocity. They recognize every state's concealed permit. If you have a permanent permit, meaning not temporary or a non-resident permit from a state other than your state of residence, it will be good in Michigan for the duration of your visit providing you follow Michigan's laws.
    I you had read the OP post carefully, you would have realised he has only non-resident permits. He can't get a resident permit in Illinois like me. Michigan does not recognize non-resident permits for concealed carry. His only option to carryin MI is open carry on foot and unloading and encasing in a vehicle.
    I read it very carefully, that's why I answered the way I did. Michigan also DOES NOT allow open carry for non-residents without a CPL, so he would be out of luck without the permanent resident CPL from his state of residence.

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    who_dat wrote:
    vmaxanarchist wrote:
    who_dat wrote:
    rsudrick wrote:
    Hey everyone, quick question for you guys... I am criminal fraud investigator and work all over the US. I have a few CCW permits but live in IL for now. I am coming to MI for work this week and was wondering about your open carry laws. Since I am not a resident of any states that I hold ccw's fro MI will not honor them. So what are the laws on non resident open carry in detroit area?? any help would be great. Thanks
    Michigan is known for it's Concealed reciprocity. They recognize every state's concealed permit. If you have a permanent permit, meaning not temporary or a non-resident permit from a state other than your state of residence, it will be good in Michigan for the duration of your visit providing you follow Michigan's laws.
    I you had read the OP post carefully, you would have realised he has only non-resident permits. He can't get a resident permit in Illinois like me. Michigan does not recognize non-resident permits for concealed carry. His only option to carryin MI is open carry on foot and unloading and encasing in a vehicle.
    I read it very carefully, that's why I answered the way I did. Michigan also DOES NOT allow open carry for non-residents without a CPL, so he would be out of luck without the permanent resident CPL from his state of residence.
    My previous posts point out that open carry on foot and encased and unloaded in a car is legal for an out of stater with a non-resident permit. Also they are exempt from the off-limits list like anyone with a permit for open carry, except school zones.

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    vmaxanarchist wrote:
    who_dat wrote:
    vmaxanarchist wrote:
    who_dat wrote:
    rsudrick wrote:
    Hey everyone, quick question for you guys... I am criminal fraud investigator and work all over the US. I have a few CCW permits but live in IL for now. I am coming to MI for work this week and was wondering about your open carry laws. Since I am not a resident of any states that I hold ccw's fro MI will not honor them. So what are the laws on non resident open carry in detroit area?? any help would be great. Thanks
    Michigan is known for it's Concealed reciprocity. They recognize every state's concealed permit. If you have a permanent permit, meaning not temporary or a non-resident permit from a state other than your state of residence, it will be good in Michigan for the duration of your visit providing you follow Michigan's laws.
    I you had read the OP post carefully, you would have realised he has only non-resident permits. He can't get a resident permit in Illinois like me. Michigan does not recognize non-resident permits for concealed carry. His only option to carryin MI is open carry on foot and unloading and encasing in a vehicle.
    I read it very carefully, that's why I answered the way I did. Michigan also DOES NOT allow open carry for non-residents without a CPL, so he would be out of luck without the permanent resident CPL from his state of residence.
    My previous posts point out that open carry on foot and encased and unloaded in a car is legal for an out of stater with a non-resident permit. Also they are exempt from the off-limits list like anyone with a permit for open carry, except school zones.

    And my post points out that you are wrong. First, without a PERMANENT CPL from his HOME state, one may NOT OC in Michigan. Second, one is NOT exempt from pistol free zones with a CPL. There is a seperate list of zones for CPL and OC. The lists are similar in content but different in remedy. A CPL holder will be trespassing the first time he offends, the OC person will be guilty of a misdemeanor.

    An out of stater may not even bring a gun into Michigan without a PERMANENT CPl unless he is carrying it THROUGH the state to another state for a lawful purpose.

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    who_dat wrote:
    vmaxanarchist wrote:
    who_dat wrote:
    vmaxanarchist wrote:
    who_dat wrote:
    rsudrick wrote:
    Hey everyone, quick question for you guys... I am criminal fraud investigator and work all over the US. I have a few CCW permits but live in IL for now. I am coming to MI for work this week and was wondering about your open carry laws. Since I am not a resident of any states that I hold ccw's fro MI will not honor them. So what are the laws on non resident open carry in detroit area?? any help would be great. Thanks
    Michigan is known for it's Concealed reciprocity. They recognize every state's concealed permit. If you have a permanent permit, meaning not temporary or a non-resident permit from a state other than your state of residence, it will be good in Michigan for the duration of your visit providing you follow Michigan's laws.
    I you had read the OP post carefully, you would have realised he has only non-resident permits. He can't get a resident permit in Illinois like me. Michigan does not recognize non-resident permits for concealed carry. His only option to carryin MI is open carry on foot and unloading and encasing in a vehicle.
    I read it very carefully, that's why I answered the way I did. Michigan also DOES NOT allow open carry for non-residents without a CPL, so he would be out of luck without the permanent resident CPL from his state of residence.
    My previous posts point out that open carry on foot and encased and unloaded in a car is legal for an out of stater with a non-resident permit. Also they are exempt from the off-limits list like anyone with a permit for open carry, except school zones.

    And my post points out that you are wrong. First, without a PERMANENT CPL from his HOME state, one may NOT OC in Michigan. Second, one is NOT exempt from pistol free zones with a CPL. There is a seperate list of zones for CPL and OC. The lists are similar in content but different in remedy. A CPL holder will be trespassing the first time he offends, the OC person will be guilty of a misdemeanor.

    An out of stater may not even bring a gun into Michigan without a PERMANENT CPl unless he is carrying it THROUGH the state to another state for a lawful purpose.
    Read my previous posts, in them I post the actual law. Thetwo laws that do notallow an out of stater to have a pistol in Michigan, a person with a concealed carry permit from any state is exempt from. There is no mention of the permitbeing from his own state (they also have to be a U.S. citizen). The law that only recognizes a permit from a persons home state is the concealed carry law. If you are not concealing or carrying loaded and/or uncased in a vehicle then it doesn't matter.
    Thus with a non-resident permit from Utah,I can open carry on foot because I can be in legal possession of it. Also I can transport unloaded and encased or in the trunk of a vehicle with a lawful purpose. Just like someone from Michigan who does not have a CPL but has a permit to purchase, carry, and transport and a safety inspection. Because I am exempt from those two laws.
    Thepistol free zones law that applies to OChas an exemption for anyone with a CC permit from any state. Again there is no mention that it has to be from their home state. Thus I am exempt from the OC off-limits list. This also applies to anyone with a MI CPL if they are open carrying. Theoff-limits list for CConly applies if carrying concealed,read the law. The only law that I don't have an exemption from for OC is the federal school zone law, but so is anyone from out of state that doesn't have a permit from Michigan. Considering MI does not issue non-resident permits that means any out of stater.

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    I stand by my comments and I say again...you are so very wrong. Go to Michigan State Police website...click on firearms laws...Search Legal Updates, being careful to type it with captal L and E, and use the plural on updates, you should be at Archived Legal Updates. Go through the updates looking for the keywords Pistol Free Zones...Non-resident carry...Cpl pistol free...Open Carry...or whatever floats your boat.

    One more time...non-residents without a home state issued cpl cannot bring a gun into Michigan other than to transport it across the state. You must have a permanent resident cpl from your home state to carry in any manner in Michigan.

    Apologies will be accepted anytime. Oh, yeah, be sure you find BOTH pistol free zones. The word "exempt" in the CPL version does not exempt you from the open carry version. Read it and weep.

    Here's the first. This says no gun for non-resident without a cpl:

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...s_185809_7.pdf

    Here's the second: (Note that this is a different PFZ for CPL holders only.)

    Pistol Free Areas Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:

    (Edit: Note that the wording here is "Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol...)
    1. Schools or school property but may carry while in a vehicle on school property while dropping off or picking up if a parent or legal guardian
    2. Public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.
    3. Sports arena or stadium
    4. A tavern where the primary source of income is the sale of alcoholic liquor by the glass consumed on the premises
    5. Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official allows concealed weapons
    6. An entertainment facility that the individual knows or should know has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more
    7. A hospital
    8. A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university
    9. ACasino

    "Premises" does not include the parking areas of the places listed above in 1 through 8.


    A pistol is subject to immediate seizure if the CCW permit holder is carrying a pistol in a "pistol free" area. The following penalties may also be imposed:
    • First offense: State Civil Infraction, $500 fine, CCW permit suspended 6 months Second offense: 90-day misdemeanor, $1000 fine, CCW permit revoked Third and subsequent offenses: 4-year felony, $5000 fine, CCW permit revoked
    Furthermore, effective March 29, 2001, per Administrative Order 2001-1 of the Michigan Supreme Court:
    • "Weapons are not permitted in any courtroom, office, or other space used for official court business or by judicial employees unless the chief judge or other person designated by the chief judge has given prior approval consistent with the court's written policy.
    Number three
    Reciprocity Michigan resident with Michigan CCW permit wishing to carry a concealed pistol in another state:

    If you are a Michigan resident with a Michigan concealed pistol permit and want to carry your pistol into another state you are strongly encouraged to contact that state for information on their concealed pistol law. A Michigan CCW permit does not supersede any other state’s law or CCW requirements.


    Non-residents of Michigan wishing to carry a concealed pistol in Michigan:

    If you are a non-resident of Michigan with a valid concealed pistol permit from your home state, Michigan will recognize your permit. However, you must carry in conformance with any and all restrictions appearing on the permit. You are subject to Michigan’s concealed pistol law including but not limited to restrictions on where a concealed pistol may be carried. Please review the information provided on this website for further information.

    Please visittheDepartment of Attorney General's web sitefor concealed weapons overview and related information.

    So you see, a CPL only gets you into the section of the law affecting CPL's, it does not make you exempt from anything other than that which does not apply to you. The Pistol Free Zones you read were the law as applied to an Open Carrier, providing for a misdemeanor charge if violated. The exemption for a CPL holder is only from the misdemeanor. The postings you made were indeed MI law, but they were not complete. In my case, I wrote to the MSP for clarification, and this is what I'm leading you to.


    Did I miss anything?



  24. #24
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    who_dat wrote:
    I stand by my comments and I say again...you are so very wrong. Go to Michigan State Police website...click on firearms laws...Search Legal Updates, being careful to type it with captal L and E, and use the plural on updates, Go through the updates looking for the keywords Pistol Free Zones...Non-resident carry...Cpl pistol free...Open Carry...or whatever floats your boat.

    One more time...non-residents without a home state issued cpl cannot bring a gun into Michigan other than to transport it across the state. You must have a permanent resident cpl from your home state to carry in any manner in Michigan.

    Apologies will be accepted anytime. Oh, yeah, be sure you find BOTH pistol free zones. The word "exempt" in the CPL version does not exempt you from the open carry version. Read it and weep.

    Here's the first. This says no gun for non-resident without a cpl:

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ms...s_185809_7.pdf
    I have read the MSP post it is inaccurate and misleading. This is why they are called law enforcement officers not lawyers. Often they believe it's their job to arrest and let the prosecutors sort the law out later.

    Quote from the MSP website: "Other exceptions to the registration requirement can be found in MCL 28.432. That statute includes an exception for concealed pistol license holders from other states." They post the law's number here, but here they make an inaccurate conclusion: "The bottom line under these statutes is that persons from other states may not bring a pistol into Michigan unless they are a police officer or hold a CPL from their state of residence. There are no exceptions for persons who wish to bring a pistol to Michigan to hunt or target shoot".

    If you don't care to read my previous post here are the excerpts from the law that apply. From MCL 28.432:

    "28.432 Inapplicability of MCL 28.422 and 28.429; citation as “Janet Kukuk act”.

    Sec. 12.

    (1) Sections 2 and 9 do not apply to any of the following

    (f) A United States citizen holding a license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by another state."

    Note in this exemption there is no mention that the holder of the CPL from another state must be a resdent of said state. Just that he needs to be a U.S. citzen.

    Here is the pertinent quote for the pistol free zones law:

    "750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty






    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.
    "



    Note again there is no mention that the permit be from the persons home state. Also this exemption clearly applies to MI CPL holders.



    Here is the pertinent quote from the concealed pistol free zones law:



    "28.425o Premises on which carrying concealed weapon prohibited; “premises” defined; exceptions to subsection (1); violation.



    Sec. 5o.

    (1) Subject to subsection (4), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(f), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following:"

    Note it says concealed pistol. Thus this law does not apply to a unconcealed pistol.

    Finally the law that your probably thinking of that requires the permit from the persons home state is the concealed carry law. Here is the concealed weapons law:

    "750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.



    Sec. 227.

    (1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk, stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of any length, or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about his or her person, or whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business or on other land possessed by the person.

    (2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or by a fine of not more than $2,500.00."

    Here is the pertinent quote from the exceptions to the above law:

    "750.231a Exceptions to § 750.227(2); definitions.



    Sec. 231a.

    (1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license."

    Here is where the law requires the permit to be from his own state of residence. However this only applies to "concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person". It does not apply to carrying unconcealed on foot or in a vehicle unloaded and encased or in the trunk with a lawful purpose with the exception to this law made by 750.231a.The same as any resident of MI who has a permit to purchase, carry and transport and a safety inspection but who does not have a CPL. However like a person from MI who has a CPL I can carry into "pistol free zones" with my non-resident permit as long as I carrying unconcealed.

    If you think that I am still wrong then post where the law says different. Not where the MSP or any other LEO misinterpret it. Apologies will be accepted anytime.

  25. #25
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    "Did I miss anything?" Yes you did. Obviously you missed this important wording.

    "Individuals licensed to carry a concealed pistol by Michigan or another state are prohibited from carrying a concealed pistol on the following premises:"

    In case you didn't catch it the wording here is "carrying a concealed pistol"this does not apply to carrying a unconcealed pistol.

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