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Coming to MI for work

rsudrick

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Hey everyone, quick question for you guys... I am criminal fraud investigator and work all over the US. I have a few CCW permits but live in IL for now. I am coming to MI for work this week and was wondering about your open carry laws. Since I am not a resident of any states that I hold ccw's fro MI will not honor them. So what are the laws on non resident open carry in detroit area?? any help would be great. Thanks
 

Michigander

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What law prohibits non residents from using permits from a state that they don't reside in? I don't doubt it exists, I've just never heard of it.

When you say Detroit area, where abouts do you mean? If you mean Detroit itself, you need to be very cautious before OCing there. The police there are extremely corrupt, and the courts have their heads up their asses.
 

67390FE

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[align=left]One of the exceptions to
MCL 750.227 Concealed weapons; carrying; penalty.
is
MCL 750.231a[/align]

[align=left](a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
[/align]
 

67390FE

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The info that's presented only applies to carrying concealed. One thing to remember is that if you have a handgun in the passenger compartment of your vehicle, it is considered to be concealed (unless it is stored in compliance with the definition of transporting of a firearm according to MCL).

Michigan is an open carry state, the question that I do not have an answer to is how to tell if a weapon brought in from out of stateis legal.

The Michigan State Police website has a lot of good links including one to MichiganFirearm Laws. It is kind of a tough read though :?.

http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654---,00.html

As always, I am not a lawyer so check it out for yourself first :).
 

Fisherman48768

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Unless you have a concealed weapons permit that would be recognized by Michigan you can't even bring a handgun into Michigan unless your going to move here, then you have 10 work days to get it registered but we call it safety inspected. No hunting with a handgun, no OCing etc. Nice thing about Michigan is we recognize all others carry permits. OCing in Michigan is legal per se, you can expect to get arrested for disturbing the peace at the least because most LEO's don't understand the law or ignore it in their own self interest. You would probably beat the charge but it would be expensive to prove the idiot wrong.
 

67390FE

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I can't speak for everywhere in MI, but OC in and around Jackson is not a problem. Myself and others do it on a regular basis. That includes in front of Jackson city, county deputies, and MSP.
 

Fisherman48768

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There in lies the key to OC'ing in Michigan. Must be a resident and pistol must be registered properly in your name. Michigan residency establishment requires 6 months then your good to go.
 

67390FE

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I appologize for taking this thread off topic.

I do not find a6 mos. requirementfor proof of residency. All the purchase permitrequiresis a current address on your MI state DL or MI state ID. The only reference I find for a six mos. res. req. is if you are applying for a CPL, which is not needed for OC.
 

Fisherman48768

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6 months requirement comes about because you cannot obtain a hunting license or concealed pistol permit until you have lived here for the required 6 months. You can register the pistol but they will have to remain home for the 6 months unused except inside the home.
 

Michigander

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Fisherman48768 wrote:
OCing in Michigan is legal per se, you can expect to get arrested for disturbing the peace at the least because most LEO's don't understand the law or ignore it in their own self interest. You would probably beat the charge but it would be expensive to prove the idiot wrong.


Try again. There is state wide pre emption of any law which goes beyond state law. State laws do not allow DTP charges for carrying, so neither can cities and townships. Detroit is a wild and wreckless place where anything goes, but other than that, the worst that can be expected, assuming no actuall laws are broken, is to be detained by some imbecile cop for half an hour or so while he calls up the on call prosecutor and finds out he's violating your rights.
 

vmaxanarchist

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In my opinion, you can open carry with a non-resident permit in Michigan. If you have a concealed carry permit from any state and are a U.S. citizenyou have an exemption from the laws that require a permit to posses or open carry and registration. Here's the relevant excerpt from the law:


28.432 Inapplicability of MCL 28.422 and 28.429; citation as “Janet Kukuk act”.

(1) Sections 2 and 9 do not apply to any of the following:

(f) A United States citizen holding a license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by another state.


Notice there is no mention that the CPL must be issued by your state of residence. Just that you are a U.S. citizen and that you have a license by any other state than Michigan.

You cannot carry concealed or in your vehicle loaded and/or accessible. While in/upon a vehicle,the pistolmust be unloaded and encased and located in a inaccessible spot from the occupantsor in the trunk if the car is equipped with one. However to be fully legal while transporting you need to have a "lawful purpose" as defined by the following law. Which lays out the exceptions to the concealed weapons law:

750.231a Exceptions to § 750.227(2); definitions.



Sec. 231a.

(1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

(a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.

(b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.

(c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle.

(d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.

(e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

(2) As used in this section:

(a) “Antique firearm” means either of the following:

(i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898.

(ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

(b) “Lawful purpose” includes the following:

(i) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.

(ii) While transporting a pistol en route to or from his or her home or place of business and place of repair.

(iii) While moving goods from 1 place of abode or business to another place of abode or business.

(iv) While transporting a licensed pistol en route to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed on the pistol as is required by section 9 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.429, or for the purpose of having a law enforcement official take possession of the weapon.

(v) While en route to or from his or her abode or place of business and a gun show or places of purchase or sale.

(vi) While en route to or from his or her abode to a public shooting facility or public land where discharge of firearms is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

(vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.

So, know where the local shooting ranges are, and plan to go get some shooting practice every time you go out in your car. Also it seems that if you are traveling from you place of residence to a business or some other private property where youare permitted by the owner tohave the pistol you have the necessary "lawful purpose".


Finally IANAL and so far I can not get anyone on this site to agree with me on my interpretation of the law. Despite that I have posted the relevant law. So, it seems the chance of a LEOhaving the correct interpretation of the law seem poor. So, you might have to go to court after an arrest to get the correct interpretation of the law. I recommend looking up the relevant laws for yourself and printing them up to show a LEO if you have such a confrontation.








[align=right]
[/align]
 

Fisherman48768

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Never said you couldn't open carry if you had a valid concealed permit, Notice I said valid then read closely what you posted:

Notice there is no mention that the CPL must be issued by your state of residence. Just that you are a U.S. citizen and that you have a license by any other state than Michigan.



Sec. 231a.

(1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

(a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.



What that means is you cannot live in Illinois and have aUtah permit recognized by Michigan. If your from Utah and have a Utah permit then the permit is valid in Michigan and you can bring a pistol in and carry it anyway you want concealed or open. If you carry it open be prepared for some harrassmet if not arrest for inciting or branishing. As I said before you can probably beat both charges but it's going to cost you while the LEO sits on the sideline and laughs at you.

If you will read the laws closely nowhere does it say you can carry openly, it just doesn't say you can't. Most people are going on the AG's opinion rendered in 1945 which basically says the same thing.
 

vmaxanarchist

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Fisherman48768 wrote:
Never said you couldn't open carry if you had a valid concealed permit, Notice I said valid then read closely what you posted:

Notice there is no mention that the CPL must be issued by your state of residence. Just that you are a U.S. citizen and that you have a license by any other state than Michigan.



Sec. 231a.

(1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

(a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.



What that means is you cannot live in Illinois and have aUtah permit recognized by Michigan. If your from Utah and have a Utah permit then the permit is valid in Michigan and you can bring a pistol in and carry it anyway you want concealed or open. If you carry it open be prepared for some harrassmet if not arrest for inciting or branishing. As I said before you can probably beat both charges but it's going to cost you while the LEO sits on the sideline and laughs at you.

If you will read the laws closely nowhere does it say you can carry openly, it just doesn't say you can't. Most people are going on the AG's opinion rendered in 1945 which basically says the same thing.

What I was trying to point out is that for a resident of Illinois having a a permit from another state like Utah, a person is exempt from the registration and licensing law which doesn't otherwise allow non-residents of MI to posses, carry, or transporta pistol. So, thus the original poster being an Illinois resident with CC permits from other states can open carry because his permit is recognized as valid for that purpose. Just not for concealed carry.

There is one law that does mention carry:

28.422 License to purchase, 28.422 License to purchase, carry, or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications; applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; basic pistol safety brochure; forging application; implementation during business hours.



Sec. 2.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not purchase, carry, or transport a pistol in this state without first having obtained a license for the pistol as prescribed in this section., or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications; applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; basic pistol safety brochure; forging application; implementation during business hours.

For residents of MI this is your OC license. With CC being illegal without a CPL, the word carry mentioned in this law can only refer to OC if a person does not have a CPL.

For non-residents the exemption to this law for any U.S. citizen that has a concealed carry permit from any state, their CCW thus becomes a OC only permit if their permit is not recognized for CC because they are not a resident of the state they got it from. Also their permit gives them exemption from the following off-limits places






[align=left]750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty[/align]






[align=left]Sec. 234d. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:[/align]




[align=left](a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.[/align]




[align=left](b) A church or other house of religious worship.[/align]




[align=left](c) A court.[/align]




[align=left](d) A theatre.[/align]




[align=left](e) A sports arena.[/align]




[align=left](f) A day care center.[/align]




[align=left](g) A hospital.[/align]




[align=left](h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the[/align]




[align=left]Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.[/align]




[align=left](2) This section does not apply to any of the following:[/align]




[align=left](a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.[/align]




[align=left](b) A peace officer.[/align]




[align=left](c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.[/align]




[align=left](d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.[/align](3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

Notice the highlighted exemption does not mention anything about residency status.
 

67390FE

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vmaxanarchist

IANAL either, but I agree with your interpretation because, like the OP, you are refering to OC. MCL 28.422 refers to purchase, carry, and transport. It says nothing about being a Michigan resident. MCL 28.429 refers to residents of MI in regards to the safety insp.

Fisherman48768

MCL750.227Refers to concealed weapons. The question of the OP is about open carry.

Further, a residency requirement for a hunting license has nothing to do with open carry. All you need for a MI drivers license (other than proof of competency), or a MI state ID, is receipts showing a valid address in your name, i.e. a utility bill, rent receipt, paystub, land line phone,etc. These can be obtained in less than 2 weeks. With these, you can get a DL or a state ID, then a purchase permit. There is no minimum time limit on residency to obtain a purchase permit.
 

who_dat

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rsudrick wrote:
Hey everyone, quick question for you guys... I am criminal fraud investigator and work all over the US. I have a few CCW permits but live in IL for now. I am coming to MI for work this week and was wondering about your open carry laws. Since I am not a resident of any states that I hold ccw's fro MI will not honor them. So what are the laws on non resident open carry in detroit area?? any help would be great. Thanks
Michigan is known for it's Concealed reciprocity. They recognize every state's concealed permit. If you have a permanent permit, meaning not temporary or a non-resident permit from a state other than your state of residence, it will be good in Michigan for the duration of your visit providing you follow Michigan's laws.
 

vmaxanarchist

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who_dat wrote:
rsudrick wrote:
Hey everyone, quick question for you guys... I am criminal fraud investigator and work all over the US. I have a few CCW permits but live in IL for now. I am coming to MI for work this week and was wondering about your open carry laws. Since I am not a resident of any states that I hold ccw's fro MI will not honor them. So what are the laws on non resident open carry in detroit area?? any help would be great. Thanks
Michigan is known for it's Concealed reciprocity. They recognize every state's concealed permit. If you have a permanent permit, meaning not temporary or a non-resident permit from a state other than your state of residence, it will be good in Michigan for the duration of your visit providing you follow Michigan's laws.
I you had read the OP post carefully, you would have realised he has only non-resident permits. He can't get a resident permit in Illinois like me. Michigan does not recognize non-resident permits for concealed carry. His only option to carryin MI is open carry on foot and unloading and encasing in a vehicle.
 

who_dat

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vmaxanarchist wrote:
who_dat wrote:
rsudrick wrote:
Hey everyone, quick question for you guys... I am criminal fraud investigator and work all over the US. I have a few CCW permits but live in IL for now. I am coming to MI for work this week and was wondering about your open carry laws. Since I am not a resident of any states that I hold ccw's fro MI will not honor them. So what are the laws on non resident open carry in detroit area?? any help would be great. Thanks
Michigan is known for it's Concealed reciprocity. They recognize every state's concealed permit. If you have a permanent permit, meaning not temporary or a non-resident permit from a state other than your state of residence, it will be good in Michigan for the duration of your visit providing you follow Michigan's laws.
I you had read the OP post carefully, you would have realised he has only non-resident permits. He can't get a resident permit in Illinois like me. Michigan does not recognize non-resident permits for concealed carry. His only option to carryin MI is open carry on foot and unloading and encasing in a vehicle.
I read it very carefully, that's why I answered the way I did. Michigan also DOES NOT allow open carry for non-residents without a CPL, so he would be out of luck without the permanent resident CPL from his state of residence.:cuss:
 

vmaxanarchist

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who_dat wrote:
vmaxanarchist wrote:
who_dat wrote:
rsudrick wrote:
Hey everyone, quick question for you guys... I am criminal fraud investigator and work all over the US. I have a few CCW permits but live in IL for now. I am coming to MI for work this week and was wondering about your open carry laws. Since I am not a resident of any states that I hold ccw's fro MI will not honor them. So what are the laws on non resident open carry in detroit area?? any help would be great. Thanks
Michigan is known for it's Concealed reciprocity. They recognize every state's concealed permit. If you have a permanent permit, meaning not temporary or a non-resident permit from a state other than your state of residence, it will be good in Michigan for the duration of your visit providing you follow Michigan's laws.
I you had read the OP post carefully, you would have realised he has only non-resident permits. He can't get a resident permit in Illinois like me. Michigan does not recognize non-resident permits for concealed carry. His only option to carryin MI is open carry on foot and unloading and encasing in a vehicle.
I read it very carefully, that's why I answered the way I did. Michigan also DOES NOT allow open carry for non-residents without a CPL, so he would be out of luck without the permanent resident CPL from his state of residence.:cuss:
My previous posts point out that open carry on foot and encased and unloaded in a car is legal for an out of stater with a non-resident permit. Also they are exempt from the off-limits list like anyone with a permit for open carry, except school zones.
 
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