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Acadamy OC Training

Agent 47

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A new Everett PD cop was just in my shop, he identified himself as a new recruit with Everett PDwho will be graduating from the academy around Thanksgiving. I asked him what kind of training they received in regards to OC. He said that the legality of it was if someone saw you and were scared then it would be illegal. I asked him if this was on grounds of RCW 9.41.270 and he said yeah and then quoted the law as "wears a weapon in a manner that causes alarm" I asked him " Is it taught at the academy that if someone is frightened when they see a gunin a holster on my hip I have broken the law?" He said its kind of a grey area and we would need to see whats going on if someone called and saida person is walking down the street with a gun. I quoted RCW 9.41.270 to him in its entirety and asked " So if I am walking down thestreet minding my own business with a gun locked in its holster have I shown an intent to intimidate another or caused alarm for anyones safety keeping in mind that a gun locked into a holster is incapable of endangering the safety of anyone. He said "no I guess not, but we are taught to look for possible trouble and if you walk down the street in broad daylight with a gun strapped to your hip it is something we would investigate. I meanifyou lived in Texas you could strap on a six shooter and a cowboy hat and walk down the street but this is Washington."I said " Actually in Texas it is illegal to OC" his reply was " well, you know what I mean if someone is scared it is bad and people in Washington get scared by that kind of thing." I informed him that I have been open carrying for over three years and nobody has ever acted scared by it. This surprised him I guess he thought the questions I was asking were just hypothetical and not something I or anyone else would actually dare to do. Pointing to the gun on my hip he asked, "You go walking around like that?!?" when I replied in the affirmative he said well I would advise you to just cover it up you are just asking for trouble from cops. I asked,"aren't cops trained to enforce the law?" he said " Yeah'' I asked so if OC is legal then why would cops harass me when I am not breaking any laws." The conversation was starting to turn into an argument so he decided he needed to go. This frustrates me, They are teaching officers to use fragments of a law taken out of context to harass citizens and try and abolish a perfectly legal practice. My bloods boiling, I gotta go shoot something.. BRB.
 

sv_libertarian

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Very interesting conversation, thanks for sharing. Is there only the one academy in Washington? A letter to the person in charge about OC and how they teach it is in order. Something like that should probably be a group effort, polite and citing all applicable information, training bulletins, etc...

Steve
 

Bear 45/70

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sv_libertarian wrote:
Very interesting conversation, thanks for sharing. Is there only the one academy in Washington? A letter to the person in charge about OC and how they teach it is in order. Something like that should probably be a group effort, polite and citing all applicable information, training bulletins, etc...

Steve
No, there are several academies in Washington. The State Patrol Academy is in Shelton. There is also one in the Seattle area. I don't know about east of the mountains.
 

j2l3

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The person in charge of all CJTC Facilities and training with the exception of the WSP Academy is Michael Parsons. He's been at the academy for a loooong time.

His contact information is: Michael Parson, Executive Director, 206-835-7347, mparsons@cjtc.state.wa.us

The address is:

Wa St CJTC, 19010 1st Ave S, Burien, WA 98148
 

Agent 47

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Right Wing Wacko wrote:
You should keep a copy of the EVERETT PD Training Bulletin handy.

That may have changed his argument somewhat
The problem I see is, It's great that departments are training officers that OC is legal. But when the officers are already brainwashed by the academy that it is illegal they will always be predisposed to view OC'ers with suspicion and harass them.
 

Jersey Ron

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This is the attitude from LEO's just about everywhere. It's like they have this "We're theones who trained 9 whole months at the academy and we're the only ones that can carry openly" attitude. It's kinda like a college professor getting mad atpeople forwearing intelligent looking "school boy glasses". You know, the glasses with the round frames. I can see it now. Professor: "Hey, you can't wear those glasses! They make you look smart! I'm the one who went to school for 8 years and I'm the only one entitled to such privileges!" If you think Washington is bad try Philadelphia, PA!





Jersey
 

sv_libertarian

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j2l3 wrote:
The person in charge of all CJTC Facilities and training with the exception of the WSP Academy is Michael Parsons. He's been at the academy for a loooong time.

His contact information is: Michael Parson, Executive Director, 206-835-7347, mparsons@cjtc.state.wa.us

The address is:

Wa St CJTC, 19010 1st Ave S, Burien, WA 98148
That simplifies things alot!

So should a group letter be written, or individual sound offs? This is a great chance to (hopefully) fix a few things and I think should be handled with care.

All training bulletings should be included of course. Court cases as well. What about detailing several of the more "notorious" stops members here have had as well. Do they really want officers making illegal stops? With a bit of luck and some skill we can pull a Barney Fife and "nip it in the bud" :lol: (Okay, I couldn't help myself there...)

Steve
 

joeroket

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sv_libertarian wrote:
j2l3 wrote:
The person in charge of all CJTC Facilities and training with the exception of the WSP Academy is Michael Parsons. He's been at the academy for a loooong time.

His contact information is: Michael Parson, Executive Director, 206-835-7347, mparsons@cjtc.state.wa.us

The address is:

Wa St CJTC, 19010 1st Ave S, Burien, WA 98148
With a bit of luck and some skill we can pull a Barney Fife and "nip it in the bud" :lol: (Okay, I couldn't help myself there...)

Steve
But Barney wasn't allowed to carry a loaded firearm. :p
 

openryan

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Interesting convo, although I am sure the guy was still a bit nervous, let him talk about oc with his fellow officers, next time you see him he will know how to twist the law to his advantage a bit better :)

It seems ridiculous, honestly. So many people CC all the time, and some of them do not even know about the legality of OC, and some wouldn't even if they could. If some of these people who are so scared of firearms, moreso the violence they cause in the hands of irresponsible individuals, were to see everyone who cc's, oc for just one day, I think they would have a dramatically different idea of firearm ownership.
 

Bear 45/70

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joeroket wrote:
sv_libertarian wrote:
j2l3 wrote:
The person in charge of all CJTC Facilities and training with the exception of the WSP Academy is Michael Parsons. He's been at the academy for a loooong time.

His contact information is: Michael Parson, Executive Director, 206-835-7347, mparsons@cjtc.state.wa.us

The address is:

Wa St CJTC, 19010 1st Ave S, Burien, WA 98148
With a bit of luck and some skill we can pull a Barney Fife and "nip it in the bud" :lol: (Okay, I couldn't help myself there...)

Steve
But Barney wasn't allowed to carry a loaded firearm. :p
Wasn't Barney allowed one bullet, when the going got real bad?
 

joeroket

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LOL He had to keep his bullets in his right breast pocket. There was a time when Andy took all his bullets away and only gave him one when the going got tough because Barney had a ND.
 

John Hardin

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j2l3 wrote:
The person in charge of all CJTC Facilities and training with the exception of the WSP Academy is Michael Parsons. He's been at the academy for a loooong time.

His contact information is: Michael Parson, Executive Director, 206-835-7347, mparsons@cjtc.state.wa.us

The address is:

Wa St CJTC, 19010 1st Ave S, Burien, WA 98148
Cry havoc and loose the Lonnies of war! Arf arf arf!
 

openryan

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joeroket wrote:
LOL He had to keep his bullets in his right breast pocket. There was a time when Andy took all his bullets away and only gave him one when the going got tough because Barney had a ND.
Andy did let Barney fill it up all the way once, on the episode where the manhunt was going down, and all the state cops had to set up base in town, Andy gave Barney a full load of Ammo, after Barney ND'ed, Andy took it all back.
 

amlevin

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Agent 47 wrote:
Right Wing Wacko wrote:
You should keep a copy of the EVERETT PD Training Bulletin handy.

That may have changed his argument somewhat
The problem I see is, It's great that departments are training officers that OC is legal. But when the officers are already brainwashed by the academy that it is illegal they will always be predisposed to view OC'ers with suspicion and harass them.

There is an old addage in Training. "Those that can do. Those that can't teach". If the training message is faulty no wonder we get the results we do.

How about a training bulletin for the "Trainers"?
 

Trigger Dr

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Sounds a little like the Auburn officer I spoke with at the WAC gunshow.

See my post "AT THE GUNSHOW"
 

Gray Peterson

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Lynnwood, Washington, USA
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I have to add my own two cents into the situation.

About a year ago, I was assured that OC was being taught as legal. It appeared that either someone is lying, or something is going on very fishy.

I'll be following up with my contact at the CJTC.
 
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