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Thread: the draw

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    I have been working on my draw today and would like some feed back on things.
    The first question i have is what is the best place to have the holster? I have been messing with it, and like how the placement is with the holster at about 1'o-clock. I feel that I have to reach less on the draw, and there is less strain on my arm.
    I know it's a matter of personal choice, but is there any major downsides to this?
    My second and most important question is where should my hands be when ready to draw? Say I get in a confrontation with some one and i feel threatend, what is the best place to have my hands? should my strong hand be over the holster/butt area ready to draw, or off to the side a bit?

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    lordnitrox wrote:
    I have been working on my draw today and would like some feed back on things.
    The first question i have is what is the best place to have the holster? I have been messing with it, and like how the placement is with the holster at about 1'o-clock. I feel that I have to reach less on the draw, and there is less strain on my arm.
    I know it's a matter of personal choice, but is there any major downsides to this?
    My second and most important question is where should my hands be when ready to draw? Say I get in a confrontation with some one and i feel threatend, what is the best place to have my hands? should my strong hand be over the holster/butt area ready to draw, or off to the side a bit?
    Well firstly, let me say this: whatever is most comfortable for you, whether it be 1 oclock, or 3, or 4, it's comfortable for you to draw from, and that's the important part.

    Secondly: The most important thing about drawing is getting a good grip before your gun breaks leather, if you don't ahve a good grip, your shots will be off. Practice gripping (not grabbing) the gun first, then start practicing drawing. It will definitly improve your draw times. Practice resting your hand on the grip, then drawing from there after you get a firm grip, then practice having your hand to the side, and drawing. it's all about what works for you. Only you can perfect your draw, so practice what makes you faster an more accurate.

    Try tofind a range that will let you do draw firing, an practice there.

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    lordnitrox wrote:
    I have been working on my draw today and would like some feed back on things.
    The first question i have is what is the best place to have the holster? I have been messing with it, and like how the placement is with the holster at about 1'o-clock. I feel that I have to reach less on the draw, and there is less strain on my arm.
    I know it's a matter of personal choice, but is there any major downsides to this?
    My second and most important question is where should my hands be when ready to draw? Say I get in a confrontation with some one and i feel threatend, what is the best place to have my hands? should my strong hand be over the holster/butt area ready to draw, or off to the side a bit?

    this is what i have been told from a few people and have found that it helped me alot, may not be as helpful for everyone else.

    when you are at home unload your gun, again make sure it is unloaded. have the gun on your hip where you think that you would like it. grab a timer of some kinda that you can set to go off every other min or something like that. when you here the timer go off draw your UNLOADED gun and fire two shots then reholster your gun repeat over and over with each spot you think you will have the gun on your hip. when you have found a spot you like make sure that you can walk around, sit down, get in and out of your car(had more trouble with my mag holder the my gun on this). make sure that you can do all the following with out having to move your gun. when you found a spot practice drawing at your self in a mirror. you will soon find out what is best for you and become comfortable drawing your gun. again make sure your gun is unloaded when drawing it. be safe and have fun.

    also make sure that you get the right holster for you. i have two a surpa and a galaco so that it will fit my needs. for oc or cc when on mine or my friends land(country area).

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    As soon as your weapon leaves the holster, the muzzle needs to be facing your target. If necessary, you can shoot at this time, and all the way to your prefered platform (weaver or isosceles.) Firing should occur from the point your muzzle is up, until the time the threat is neutralized.

    Hope that helps.

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    join desert sportsman outdoor range then you can do all the practice from the holster you want.

    they also have matches

    IDPA theywill on 1'o clock carry

    IPSC theymight on 1'o clock carry

    Paladin (i think they still have these) theymight on 1'o clock carry, but if the same guys are running it that did when I shot it you won't have any problems

    choose the mode that best suits you


    dry fire practice
    start off slow, speed will come
    BE SAFE.

    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


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    Concentrate more on mechanics than speed:

    1. Locate weapon while keeping your eyes on target
    2. Grip (should incorporate thumb break or other retention method
    3. Fully clearing of the weapon from holster (GET ON TARGET ASAP)
    4. Sight alignment
    5. And the best part, the steady squeeze.
    Remember to TAKE YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER before re holstering!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



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    Bravo_Sierra wrote:
    As soon as your weapon leaves the holster, the muzzle needs to be facing your target. If necessary, you can shoot at this time, and all the way to your prefered platform (weaver or isosceles.) Firing should occur from the point your muzzle is up, until the time the threat is neutralized.

    Hope that helps.
    I concur that this draw technique is the best. However, it's difficult to convey over a forum using text. There are so many things you can do wrong which will totally ruin it ("fishing" with the muzzle, for instance).

    I found that this video teaches the correct technique reasonably well: http://youtube.com/watch?v=vxVa-gEPn6Q

    1) Get in your stance and get a good grip on the weapon
    2) Clear leather
    3) Rotate muzzle towards the target
    4) Punch the weapon towards the target

    Stance is important. Keep your chin low and weight forward. It's also important to make sure your hands meet as you're moving the weapon towards the target, while making sure to keep your left hand away from the muzzle, trigger, etc. You should index your left hand on your chest which accomplishes both of those goals and also helps remind you to bring the weapon high on the ribcage when clearing leather. Make sure that when you extend your arms you keep the muzzle straight and level. You should be on target from the point that you initiall rotate the weapon (right after clearing your holster) until all shots are fired.

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    I'll share what several big name/reputable shooting schools teach, as well as what I've found to the most effective.
    Note: This particular draw method is akward at first... like VERY akward. But it is actually faster and more consistent than most.

    Carry at 3 or 9 depending on R or L handed. This maximizes draw speed while still offering good concealment. For those of us who OC, it's ideal. It's recommended that you ride the gun vertically, with no cant... technically you loose a bit of concealment (if concealing of course), but in my experience, nothing significant.

    Steps of the draw.
    1. Grab you gun with a combat grip (don't pull it out, then shif it in your hand... draw it with a full normal shooting grip on the gun... like Whiterabbit said, this is CRITICAL) - while you're grabbing your gun, place your support side hand just below your strong side pec open handed. These two things should be done simultaneously. If you go for you gun, even in practice, the support hand goes to the chest. This keeps your hand out of the way in close contact shooting as well as preps you for step 4.

    2. Draw the gun from the hoster upwards untill it clears the holster... DO NOT tilt the gun towards the target yet and DO keep your finger off the trigger.

    3. Rotate your elbow down and slightly tilt your wrist till the gun rides uncomfortably high (almost in your armpit) and is pointed at your target (the reason for the step is to give you the ability to do point-blank shooting while keeping control of the gun and prepare you for "presentation" of the gun). You might have to tilt the gun slightly out to clear your pit.

    4. Start pushing the gun hand forward, placing the finger on the trigger (taking manual safety off if any) and you'll find that your support hand is already (remember, it's just under your pec) conveniently in place to just slide out right into place for a proper grip.

    5. Bring the gun up to eye level while keeping a proper stance. For beginners to intermediate shooters... DO NOT hunch your shoulders or crouch your head... this hurts consistency and accuracy. Think "english gentleman" posture.

    Ideally the moment the gun comes up to eye level, the sights will be aligned and the gun will "go off" as you'll have been building pressure on the trigger all the way up... but this takes some time to master. Untill then, present, then work on trigger control.

    If you need clarification, lemme know.. I'll see what I can do about pics for the steps.

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    Agent19 wrote:
    IDPA theywill on 1'o clock carry

    IPSC theymight on 1'o clock carry
    I'm fairly certain that both will -- there's a diagram, but basically, if you feel the top inside of your hip bone, your accessories basically need to be behind that part of your anatomy.

    So, staying within their rules, it's probably more of a 2 o'clock/2:30 carry.

    I personally prefer a 3 o'clock carry -- I'm what you might call 'Reuben-esque' so, if I draw from a 2 or 1 o'clock position, I don't like how the gun isn't facing directly in front of me where I'm more likely to be facing during a confrontation.

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    IdahoCorsair wrote:
    For beginners to intermediate shooters... DO NOT hunch your shoulders or crouch your head... this hurts consistency and accuracy. Think "english gentleman" posture.
    You did a better job explaining than I did, but I would disagree with this one point of your post. You WANT to keep your head down and shoulders hunched for a couple of reasons. The first is that it puts your eye more in line with the weapon's sights. If you stand up straight you must bring your arms up higher, then aim the weapon down with your wrists. The second reason is that it makes you a smaller target, covers the vulnerable throat area, and presents the front of the skull, which is the thickest part.

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    lordnitrox wrote:
    I have been working on my draw today and would like some feed back on things.
    The first question i have is what is the best place to have the holster?......



    Where YOU can get at it real fast.



    Tarzan

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    Cue-Ball wrote:
    IdahoCorsair wrote:
    For beginners to intermediate shooters... DO NOT hunch your shoulders or crouch your head... this hurts consistency and accuracy. Think "english gentleman" posture.
    You did a better job explaining than I did, but I would disagree with this one point of your post. You WANT to keep your head down and shoulders hunched for a couple of reasons. The first is that it puts your eye more in line with the weapon's sights. If you stand up straight you must bring your arms up higher, then aim the weapon down with your wrists. The second reason is that it makes you a smaller target, covers the vulnerable throat area, and presents the front of the skull, which is the thickest part.
    I agree with you overall. However. For those starting out, and frankly for most shooters, what I said is a good idea... under stress you'll hunch your shoulders a bit anyway etc... The reason for doing the whole "english gentleman" posture is that you WILL shoot an oval shaped group if you duck your head, and roll your shoulders (all other factors being correct) that is tall and narrow... this is due to the head and sights not aligning exactly the same every time during presentation. Seriously, I teach enough people and I can not look at them at all, look at their target, and if they're doing the vertical oval pattern, I'll just tell them to quit ducking their head without ever looking at them. My assessment has been correct 100% of the time.
    But like you said, ducking your head isn't inherently bad... it can even be preferable. It's like riding your bicycle without hands around corners and weaving in and out of people... sure it's possible, and even convenient, but for most people it's a bad idea.


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    Slow is smooth and smooth is fast.

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    Wow, seems like people are worried about 10 or 20 milliseconds here... 10 there.

    Kind of like Westworld...

    What an utter waste.

    It's far more important to draw when you mustand not when you shouldn't. Train to draw fast and you just may just do it too fast when it's for real. Then what?

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    HankT wrote:
    Wow, seems like people are worried about 10 or 20 milliseconds here... 10 there.

    Kind of like Westworld...

    What an utter waste.

    It's far more important to draw when you mustand not when you shouldn't. Train to draw fast and you just may just do it too fast when it's for real. Then what?
    This thread is about drawing quickly and properly. If you don't have something helpful to add, then ****.

  16. #16
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    IdahoCorsair wrote:
    I'll share what several big name/reputable shooting schools teach, as well as what I've found to the most effective.
    Note: This particular draw method is akward at first... like VERY akward. But it is actually faster and more consistent than most.

    Carry at 3 or 9 depending on R or L handed. This maximizes draw speed while still offering good concealment. For those of us who OC, it's ideal. It's recommended that you ride the gun vertically, with no cant... technically you loose a bit of concealment (if concealing of course), but in my experience, nothing significant.

    Steps of the draw.
    1. Grab you gun with a combat grip (don't pull it out, then shif it in your hand... draw it with a full normal shooting grip on the gun... like Whiterabbit said, this is CRITICAL) - while you're grabbing your gun, place your support side hand just below your strong side pec open handed. These two things should be done simultaneously. If you go for you gun, even in practice, the support hand goes to the chest. This keeps your hand out of the way in close contact shooting as well as preps you for step 4.

    2. Draw the gun from the hoster upwards untill it clears the holster... DO NOT tilt the gun towards the target yet and DO keep your finger off the trigger.

    3. Rotate your elbow down and slightly tilt your wrist till the gun rides uncomfortably high (almost in your armpit) and is pointed at your target (the reason for the step is to give you the ability to do point-blank shooting while keeping control of the gun and prepare you for "presentation" of the gun). You might have to tilt the gun slightly out to clear your pit.

    4. Start pushing the gun hand forward, placing the finger on the trigger (taking manual safety off if any) and you'll find that your support hand is already (remember, it's just under your pec) conveniently in place to just slide out right into place for a proper grip.

    5. Bring the gun up to eye level while keeping a proper stance. For beginners to intermediate shooters... DO NOT hunch your shoulders or crouch your head... this hurts consistency and accuracy. Think "english gentleman" posture.

    Ideally the moment the gun comes up to eye level, the sights will be aligned and the gun will "go off" as you'll have been building pressure on the trigger all the way up... but this takes some time to master. Untill then, present, then work on trigger control.

    If you need clarification, lemme know.. I'll see what I can do about pics for the steps.
    good post really gives detail

    i think this site is pretty much the same as what you said but it has some pics and some good links.

    http://www.wikihow.com/Do-a-Tactical...-With-a-Pistol

    just remeber it is not what is good for others it is what is good for you. and practice makes perfect

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    I was looking for that link to put in this thread, but couldn't find it!

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    Cue-Ball wrote:
    I was looking for that link to put in this thread, but couldn't find it!
    found it last night when i was going through some posts

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    Thr one question not addressed is where to put your hands if in a confrontation. If the other person is not threatining with deadly force and you place your hands on the gun you could be charged with brandishing. Just a thought.......stay safe.

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    casullshooter wrote:
    Thr one question not addressed is where to put your hands if in a confrontation. If the other person is not threatining with deadly force and you place your hands on the gun you could be charged with brandishing. Just a thought.......stay safe.
    I'm wondering this as well. Resting your hand on the grip of your handgun could very well be a threatening gesture. I don't know what the official answer is, but I would keep my firing hand on the belt directly in front of the holster, and the weak hand in a similar position on the opposite side. This gets your hand as close as possible for a draw if necessary, and it also keeps your hands in front of you, in case you would have to physically defend yourself. It also doesn't necessarily look threatening, as you're simply resting your hands on your belt.

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    You've asked the right question at the right time.

    There is fair amount to know. The more you dig into the subject the better.

    Important is to learn good habits early so you don't have to break a bad one later.

    Dig up some books on the subject by recognized experts. I came across Massad Ayoob's series Stressfire early. I made a deliberate decision to learn that because I had already developed respect for the author on other points of self-defense. I didn't know whether his was the best, but I knew it would be better than word of mouth, or Bubba at the gun store might tellme. By deliberate decision, I mean I started practicing knowing it might not be the best and that I might abandon it later if I discovered something else better.

    Classes might help.

    I've only skimmed the thread. If someone mentioned this next point already, let me know. One thing I've seen consistently mentioned in training books and articles is economy of motion. I'm sure you already know this, but, for example, thrust the gun forward rather than lift it up and then forward. Lifting up supposedly too often brings the gun too high requiring one to bring it down again once the muzzle is coming on target. Sort of like avoiding the classic movie sight picture aquisition where the actor points the muzzle to the sky and then brings it down onto the target. Too much motion. The point here isn't to focus on pushing the gun out from your chest. Thats just an example. The focus is economy of motion.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    I would not consider placing a hand on the weapon brandishing -- if you draw your weapon, that most certainly is, otherwise, in a good majority of traffic stops, a police officer is 'brandishing' their weapon.

    I don't believe this is the old west where duels were fought relatively fair and you kept your hand off of your gun until the first person drew. If you find yourself in a fair fight, you need to rethink your tactics. If someone approaches you in a threatening manner, I see nothing wrong with unconcealing (if concealed), placing your hand on the butt of your weapon and warning them that you're about to fire.

    After they wet themselves and run off, that's when you can 'play fair' and call the police so they can show up 15 minutes later to take your statement.

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    IDPA theywill on 1'o clock carry IPSC theymight on 1'o clock carry

    I'm fairly certain that both will -- there's a diagram
    If your lucky enough tofind a RO that knows your not playing the game they mightallow.
    But your right, however there is no harm in asking.
    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Wynder wrote:
    I would not consider placing a hand on the weapon brandishing -- ...
    Very situational and ddepends on state law, I think. I recall a fellow here who dman near got charged for brandishing for simply showing his gun. He transitioned fromCC to CC becausesome woman was screaming athim....

    He didn't get charged, but got into some trouble over the incident.


    Wynder wrote:
    If someone approaches you in a threatening manner, I see nothing wrong with unconcealing (if concealed), placing your hand on the butt of your weapon and warning them that you're about to fire.
    Of course, the question is what is reasonably "threatening," isn't it? In the case I cited, the goof with a gun decided some little 20 year old woman was somehow "threatening" because she was yapping at him over some beef. He really believed this little woman was a "threat" to him. But most here decided she wasn't and that he had erred badly in showing off his piece.

    Going from CC to showing your gun and putting your hand on it, I think, will get you into trouble in most instances--unless there is indeed a reasonably demonstrable "threat."

    Situations tend to get escalated when the gun comes out. Although, certainly, it can be perfectly appropriate to do sometimes. Depends.




    Wynder wrote:

    After they wet themselves and run off, that's when you can 'play fair' and call the police so they can show up 15 minutes later to take your statement.
    And, no doubt, omit reporting the part aboutdisplaying and/or gripping the handgun....


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    Wynder wrote:
    I would not consider placing a hand on the weapon brandishing -- if you draw your weapon, that most certainly is, otherwise, in a good majority of traffic stops, a police officer is 'brandishing' their weapon.

    I don't believe this is the old west where duels were fought relatively fair and you kept your hand off of your gun until the first person drew. If you find yourself in a fair fight, you need to rethink your tactics. If someone approaches you in a threatening manner, I see nothing wrong with unconcealing (if concealed), placing your hand on the butt of your weapon and warning them that you're about to fire.

    After they wet themselves and run off, that's when you can 'play fair' and call the police so they can show up 15 minutes later to take your statement.
    I think we should consider two separate situations:

    Situation 1: You are minding your own business with your family and you are approached by a man at a distance holding a knife. He demands your wallet and jewelry. At this point you pull your jacket back behind your sidearm, place your hand on the grip, and tell the man that if he comes any close he'll be shot.

    Situation 2: You're walking out to your car, and you find another person parked next to you looking at his door. He see's you walk up, and starts going off about how there's a ding on his car and it is from your car door. He keeps his distance, be he's obviously upset. You tell him he's wrong because his car wasn't even there when you pulled in. He tells you that you better cough up the money to pay for the ding or you're not gonna like the consequences. The guy is a good foot taller than you and obviously muscular. You slowly place your hand on the grip of your handgun (that he can see) and ask him what he thinks he's gonna do.

    In the first situation, you didn't necessarily have to immediately draw and fire, since the man was at a distance and only holding a knife, but placing your hand on your sidearm is exactly what you should do. In the second situation, while the guy is obviously pissed and big enough to cause some serious harm, he hasn't done enough to warrant bringing a gun into the situation, and by touching it you're essentially threatening him.

    Now here's a question for you. If you were in a situation like the second one, and a guy slowly moved to his sidearm, would you consider that enough of a threat to draw and fire?



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