the draw

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wow...thank you for all the info, i would have gotten back sooner..but my professor thought everyone needed to be even more stressed out over his class. *grumbles*

As for info on drawing; i have read it, and will try it and work on it. I will look for the book when i get paid, and need to spend more time on this.

As for the questions on what would be done in the two scenarios, they are very good questions, and my repsonce would vary depending on how close he is. If he is in striking range i would draw and fire ASAP no questions asked. However if he is about 5 feet back and there is room where he hs to get closer to stab me, thats when I would draw and yell something like "drop it or i will shoot!", Hopefully by seeing he has a gun in his face he will drop it. If He tries to make a move that i see as a threat ( IE getting closer) i would shoot.

As for the 2nd cause, thats something that i would really have to have all the info on. If he is just yelling and says "or else" I would have to ask "are you threating to hurt me?". he may mean he will sue, or do something other then bodily harm. So in the context of he says yes he will hurt me, thats when I would put my hand on the butt of the gun. I support this because: the guy is mad and not thinking right, he said he would cause bodily harm, and by his size he may feel that i pose little to restance.
He made the threat that he would hurt me, and he is clearly not going to take things slow..That would surly make me feel that such an action is necessary. However by doing it, it could make things worse and cause me to shoot him. so this is not exactly the best plan to have.

Now..for the flip side; in the case I was in an argument when OC'ing I really have to say i would not be yelling like an idiot. Every time I have my gun on i am one of the nicest people you will ever meet. If anything i would say i will contact a lawyer and do things that way, not go nuts.
However if i was yelling and i saw a guy put his hand on his gun I would come to my mind and see that we both have guns, and that something bad is about to happen.

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IdahoCorsair wrote:

Tarzan, regarding your statement "BAD GUYS DON'T USE HOLSTERS"
.... I read a survey recently of several thousand inmates, and forgive me for the brain fart, but it was either 40% used holsters or 40% didn't use holsters... but i think it was the former... this new information might be helpful to you.

Click to expand...

The actual link and quote are as follows:

"CONCEALMENT.

The offenders said they most often hid guns on their person in the front waistband, with the groin area and the small of the back nearly tied for second place. Some occasionally gave their weapons to another person to carry, "most often a female companion." None regularly used a holster, and about 40% at least sometimes carried a backup weapon."

http://www.forcesciencenews.com/home/detail.html?serial=62

This accurate information might be helpful to you.



Tarzan

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To DreQospecifically, the membership of this forum in general, I wish to apologize.

I started the foray in this thread yesterday, when I took a portion of what DreQo
had posted and used that as a base for personal attacks on his intellect and veracity.

The substantive content of those remarks is irrelevant, but the tenor is not, and for firing the first shot and then in egging on the ensuing confrontation, I apologize to one and all.



Tarzan

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Good man, admitting that you are wrong is a tough row to hoe. +1

God has seen to it that the lesson of humility visits me regularly.

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tarzan1888 wrote:

To DreQospecifically, the membership of this forum in general, I wish to apologize.

I started the foray in this thread yesterday, when I took a portion of what DreQo
had posted and used that as a base for personal attacks on his intellect and veracity.

The substantive content of those remarks is irrelevant, but the tenor is not, and for firing the first shot and then in egging on the ensuing confrontation, I apologize to one and all.



Tarzan

Click to expand...

No harm done on this front. I, too, was at fault for immediately jumping on the defense with teeth bared. The only thing I'm not too happy about is the manner in which longwatch put out the flames...I've STILL got fire extinguisher crap up my nose!

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DreQo wrote:

......The only thing I'm not too happy about is the manner in which longwatch put out the flames...I've STILL got fire extinguisher crap up my nose!

Click to expand...

Now that was funny



Tarzan



PS I know how you feel.

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Wow... just came across this -- anything you need to know about breaking leather and firing first you can immitate this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbklCvsoFRo

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I was really expecting to get my comments hammered at in respect to the scenarios, I guess nobody saw anything wrong with them....?

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Wynder wrote:

Wow... just came across this -- anything you need to know about breaking leather and firing first you can immitate this guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbklCvsoFRo

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I put people like that to shame when I go out to the range....

Cool video, they had a similar one on the history channel, shooters tech or something like that, it was very good.

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You've received some good advice.

Some of mine is to get some professional training before you learn any bad habits. It did wonders for me.

Check out Todd here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysa50-plo48

You're doing well to consider your gear placement. But, like others, think you need to move to 3 o'clock. Spare mags (bullets forward) at 9 o'clock.

Look into "Perfect Practice" http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=739075

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Cue-Ball wrote:

I found that this video teaches the correct technique reasonably well: http://youtube.com/watch?v=vxVa-gEPn6Q

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yeah, and if you don't learn enough from that guy, try this guy ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtmPsaxYkL8:lol:

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As to where to have your hands in a confrontation, it depends on how close the (potential) combatant is to you. I have been taught in martial arts and other defense training that if the threat is within 10-15 feet, both your hands need to be in a relaxed position at low chest level ... about at the bottom of your sternum. From this position you are prepared for empty hand defense, a defensive strike or to draw your firearm while looking relaxed and casual, non-threatening but alert. You will see lots of LEOs and bouncers in that position when dealing with potential issues. I also practice my draw from that position as well and find that short of having my hand hovering over my sidearm, it is the fastest draw position for me.

I find that it is now so second nature that even out for the evening in nightspots I tend to stand in that position holding my beverage. To go from casual hanging out to defensive-prepared-for-anything only requires dropping the beverage.

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deepdiver wrote:

SNIP...You will see lots of LEOs and bouncers in that position when dealing with potential issues.

Click to expand...

I've heard this pose referred to as the "interview" position. You get lots of choices from this position.

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The offenders said they most often hid guns on their person in the front waistband, with the groin area and the small of the back nearly tied for second place. Some occasionally gave their weapons to another person to carry, "most often a female companion." None regularly used a holster, and about 40% at least sometimes carried a backup weapon."


Gee, Now I'm an automatic BG because of my Mexican carry.:shock: I think they know what they're doing. I do all my farmwork with no drops and no holster catching on everything. Also no loser, empty holster when I must enter a no-gun establishment. The watch pocket is perfect for spare ammo. The draw may not be as fast, but good for either hand. You may have to fend off a snatch attempt with the closest hand. It works very well with full sized revolvers which you can have by forgoing the holster. The small gun is just as big in the holster. Ace

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I believe that if I were to ever need to draw and fire my gun it will be a CQC situation. Given this information I tend to practice getting off shots as soon as my gun clears the holster. I keep my gun at about 4-5 O’clock so when reaching for my wallet I have the option for a quick draw/fire. [/i]

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DreQo wrote:

Wynder wrote:

I would not consider placing a hand on the weapon brandishing -- if you draw your weapon, that most certainly is, otherwise, in a good majority of traffic stops, a police officer is 'brandishing' their weapon.

I don't believe this is the old west where duels were fought relatively fair and you kept your hand off of your gun until the first person drew. If you find yourself in a fair fight, you need to rethink your tactics. If someone approaches you in a threatening manner, I see nothing wrong with unconcealing (if concealed), placing your hand on the butt of your weapon and warning them that you're about to fire.

After they wet themselves and run off, that's when you can 'play fair' and call the police so they can show up 15 minutes later to take your statement.

Click to expand...

I think we should consider two separate situations:

Situation 1: You are minding your own business with your family and you are approached by a man at a distance holding a knife. He demands your wallet and jewelry. At this point you pull your jacket back behind your sidearm, place your hand on the grip, and tell the man that if he comes any close he'll be shot.

Situation 2: You're walking out to your car, and you find another person parked next to you looking at his door. He see's you walk up, and starts going off about how there's a ding on his car and it is from your car door. He keeps his distance, be he's obviously upset. You tell him he's wrong because his car wasn't even there when you pulled in. He tells you that you better cough up the money to pay for the ding or you're not gonna like the consequences. The guy is a good foot taller than you and obviously muscular. You slowly place your hand on the grip of your handgun (that he can see) and ask him what he thinks he's gonna do.

In the first situation, you didn't necessarily have to immediately draw and fire, since the man was at a distance and only holding a knife, but placing your hand on your sidearm is exactly what you should do. In the second situation, while the guy is obviously pissed and big enough to cause some serious harm, he hasn't done enough to warrant bringing a gun into the situation, and by touching it you're essentially threatening him.

Now here's a question for you. If you were in a situation like the second one, and a guy slowly moved to his sidearm, would you consider that enough of a threat to draw and fire?

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Perhaps this is getting into a state specific scenario. In Michigan, neither is considered brandishing. Jenifer Granholm (A Michiganians favorite person) issued the following attorney general opinion on the topic:

In the absence of any reported Michigan appellate court decisions defining "brandishing," it is appropriate to rely upon dictionary definitions. According to The American Heritage Dictionary, Second College Edition (1982), at p 204, the term brandishing is defined as: "1. To wave or flourish menacingly, as a weapon. 2. To display ostentatiously. –n. A menacing or defiant wave or flourish.”… the court recognized that in federal sentencing guidelines, "brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner."

Moreover, "In the 19th century, Michigan outlawed the carry of concealed weapons. The rational was that a person could use a concealed pistol in a fight and surprise his or her opponent. That is, a person had a right to know if the other person was armed before getting in a dispute."

So, if there were a possibility of a confrontation, switching from CC to OC should only be considered the polite and considerate thing to do

http://www.ag.state.mi.us/opinion/datafiles/2000s/op10176.htm

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