Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 39

Thread: OC in So Cal

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    17

    Post imported post

    I have posted on another discussion about legal OC in California through means of carrying your handgun unloaded. Today I have decided to start a new thread as my first contact with police harassment hasoccured.

    Just some background information:

    - I am 21, legally purchased my own handgun and have no criminal history whatsoever.

    - I have open carried my unloaded handgun through areas in Glendora, San Dimas, La Verne, Covina, Pomona, Montclair and other surrounding cities. The main stores that I have shopped/conducted business include Wal-Mart, In-N-Out, McDonald's, Target, and today the mall located in Montclair, California.

    - I have thoroughly read California Penal Code sections 12020-12040 which encompass firearms laws and understand that no section prohibits the open carrying of an unloaded handgun. I have also read a related court case in the State of California vs Clark (San Diego County) from 1996 which holds a legal definition of a loaded firearm directly from the interpretation of the state court system.

    - I carry a Rock Island 1911 .45 with two magazines each containing 8 rounds of ammunition. (I know you'll laugh at the RI but I'm a college student and dropping 700-1000 dollars on a handgun is ill advised and outside of my budget).



    Now after all of that garbage here is what happened today from the beginning:

    My friend decided to go shopping at the mall located in Montclair, California (which is near the LA-San Bernadino County line) so I decided I'd tag along and carry my unloaded handgun (with ammunition in a magazine separately of course). This was probably my 5th or 6th excursion carrying the handgun and the first time into what I call a "townie" hot zone (i'm sure urbandictionary.com has a good slang definition of "townie" for those of you who don't know what that is).

    First we browsed the lower floor of the shopping center with little fanfare other than perhaps a few stares (I tend not to bother with paying attention to the gawkers). So we traveled to the second floor and I decided to purchase a small soda from the McDonald's in the food court. After proceeding to browse the shops on the second floor we noticed four security guards "shadowing" us haplessly as they failed to carry firearms (bright blue uniform shirts and drill sergeant hats weren't exactly hard to pick out).

    At this moment I realized some ignorant members of the populace decided to alert security and likely the police to a deranged lunatic openly carrying a handgun. Perhaps if some people would use logic and quit being scared out of their pants they might realize if I was going to commit a crime I would probably have concealed my firearm in the first place. But the ignorance of the many is another issue in and of itself. So from this my friend commented "maybe we should leave now" but I foresaw getting pulled over as we left by the police and decided I'd rather deal with it where there would be more witnesses if the american stormtroopers got trigger happy.

    Shortly thereafter I spotted a police officer (a lady who if I was a criminal could easily have handled). From the first entrance into the mall to my first sighting of a police officer somewhere between 25-30 minutes had passed which again if I was a criminal/deranged lunatic could have proceeded to lay waste to who knows how many people before they arrived (perhaps another nod for me to continue my practice of this in the future). After about 5 seconds of seeing her she spotted me and the handgun and started approaching quickly. She then proceeded to place her hand on her firearm as if she was likely to draw so I placed my hands in the air, stopped, and stated my handgun was unloaded.

    She then proceeded to grab my arms and place handcuffs on me. Once she had those in position she removed my firearm, neglected to check if it was loaded. She failed to pat me down immediately and chose to sit me down instead of removing my two magazines I carry on my person as well. 10-15 seconds after being placed on the bench 5-6 more officers arrived (I didn't count immediately and I was a bit nervous as this was my first encounter with the police under the circumstances). The second officer to arrive, a balding white male in his late 30's to mid 40's proceeded to pat me down, remove my wallet and pen. I alerted him that I was carrying two magazines as well and that he would probably like to remove them as well. Again I noted the negligence of the police as he failed to pat down my left front pocket which contained a pair of cheap sunglasses and a small pocket knife i carry clipped and visible at all times (I would later alert another officer that he might wish to remove those as well). Meanwhile my friend was being handcuffed and searched as well.

    The officers then proceeded to escort us to a small office/holding station located on the mall property. There they would put me into the holding area and placed my friend on a bench. Next they would ask me why I was carrying a handgun, what was I doing, etc. (I'll be honest I was still quite nervous and don't remember the exact questions they posed to me). I didn't ask for a lawyer but I did proceed to inform the officers that what I was doing was legal under California law and was for my own self protection. Upon this the Hispanic officer who seemed to be in charge (apparently a sergeant) coined in saying "this isn't the wild wild west" and then after I again repeated it was legal told the other officers "I don't want to hear anymore from this guy" and they closed the door to the holding area (not entirely as they left ita crack open). I would sit alone for5 minutes before hearing anything clearly in which one officer stated "let's charge him with carrying an unloaded handgun." Another 10 minutes would pass (all the while they were questioning my friend mostly along the lines I would later find out of "is your friend crazy"). My friend would also later inform me of many sarcastic comments such as "it's a nice gun but ****** ammunition." That is probably true but to be honest I don't see much of a difference in paying twice as much to get 3" groups when 6" groups are plenty good to hit a guy from within 50 yards.

    But back onto the main plot. I would begin to start laughing to myself at the next set of events. I spotted one of the officers grabbing a very thick book which I knew was a set of the California Penal Code and three of them took turns flipping through trying to find a law to use against me. That would go on for another 10 minutes. They would then open the door and ask me if I was crazy or was mentally deranged and I stated "no." Then for my own kicks (although it probably wasn't the smartest decision) I stated that the closest thing to a law was Section 12031 of the California Penal Code and specifically section G regarding loaded firearms. Another 2-3 minutes of flipping later an officer (the largest officer of the bunch, a white male aged 30-35 nearly completely bald) walked in, released me from my handcuffs, asked me my name, and walked out.

    Next the Sergeant and the large officer walked in to question me some more, the female officer also came to question me on my identification. The sergeant would also state that in his 16 years of policing he had never occured the present situation before (which made me all the more proud of doing so). They then proceeded to move me out next to my friend on a bench where 3 of the mall security guards were giving their version of events as well. The officers informed me that I was to be banned from the mall but no charges were going to be pressed against me. They would also proceed to nag me that they were merely doing their job (to which I sarcastically agreed), that I was crazy to do this to which I replied it's perfectly legal. They also told me some information to try and scare me such as "what if a rookie cop was the arresting officer and he shot you." To this I replied I would either take legal recourse against the proper parties or I would simply be dead and that in that case it wouldn't matter.

    After that conversation the mall security officers proceeded to take my picture and explain to me the intricacies of the ban (they also provided me with a copy of the ban to which is now proudly attached to my desk). The mall ban is no big loss as I'm quite the cheap skate and paying more than 20 dollars for any article of clothing is exorbitant in the first place in my opinion (unless its for severe weather conditions, etc etc). The officers would then ask me more questions such as had I done this before and if I had been detained for it to which again I stated "no." They were shocked by this and informed me if I open carried in the city of Montclair I was likely to be detained again.

    Somewhere along the lineI also informed them I had contacted theCaliforniaAttorney General's office with questions related to open carrying firearms and thatthey stated there was no law against it, pointed me to California Penal Code 12031, andalso stated that the police had the right toat least check if the firearm is unloaded at will (this last part i'm not sure of but i'd rather open the slide of my firearm and showan officer than constantly get hauled down to the station;as to whether the police will take more liberties than this is quite obvious likely but this also provides me with possible information to use against the police in any event).

    The sergeant also cracked "where's your Charlton Heston card" to which I quipped back "I don't support the NRA as they agree to surrender too many gun rights in my view." After hearing them out I proceed to ask for my gun and belongings which they provided (although they field stripped my handgun, as if I could not put it back together). I decided against re-assembling my handgun as I didn't want to provide them an oppurtunity to even claim that I was brandishing a firearm (once I got home I eagerly re-assembled my baby). I checked all of my belongings to ensure nothing had gone missing but alas I found the police had lost my cheap pen I was carrying with me. Upon this the two of us proceeded immediately home.

    The lessons I learned from this first experience:

    - At least until I get some experience under my belt to cooperate fully with the police as this will help smooth along a release from custody.

    - Fully read and understand the laws/court cases related to open carrying/firearms if you are going to partake in this as it will help you adequately defend yourself plus school the police on the law they swear to uphold!

    - That perhaps if (more likely when)this occurs again I will be more assertive of my legal rights and state they only have the right to check the firearm. Although if any of you can provide legal information/California law related to this I would be most appreciative.

    - Being somewhat intelligent and able to make logical reasoning clear for the officers is a definite plus. Making the officers believe you are an upstanding individual who is merely partaking in a legal right helps. Merely spewingconstantly that the 2nd amendment is all you need will probably get more yawns or anger out of the officers than anything else.

    - If you don't have a perfect legal record you are probably going to have a much tougher time than I did.

    - ALWAYS BRING A PARTNER. Obviously someone you can trust and who is reliable/has a clean record who can provide eye witness testimony in the event **** gets out of hand.

    And to note that after this all occured I was in a very joyous mood at out-witting the dopes who serve to "protect and uphold the law."

    If anybody has any questions I'll answer them as best I can.

    And if you guys are curious one of my reasons I believe in open carrying is to pressure the police in L.A. county to more freely issue CCW permits as I would much prefer to concealed carry but I'm not going to waste the time or the money until I believe I have a reasonable chance of success in acquiring one.

    I don't know quotes so I'll end it with a comment of my own (although I'm sure someone else has stated it long before me). A right that goes unexercised is a right that is lost. Don't let the ignorance or fear of others prevent you from fully exercising your rights under the law.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Mag-bayonettes!, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,407

    Post imported post

    Holy crap.

    I thought I was being brave OC'ing in VA when I first started. You guys out in CA and the Illinois Fanny Pack Carry guys have some set...

    Please take care of yourself, and first/foremost get a voice recorder you leave on whenever you go out carrying. You will not have time to turn it on if something happens.

    Please keep posting about your experiences in CA... I hope to vacation there one day, and hopefully through hard work of people like you, I'll be able to carry there when I do. (though I'm not holding my breath for anything within the 25 year range heh)
    -Unrequited

  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member OC-Glock19's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    561

    Post imported post

    I just have one question for you Hellrazor: Do they clank together when you walk?

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    , New Jersey, USA
    Posts
    192

    Post imported post

    Hellrazor, you are one hell of a dude!! And there ain't a god dang thing wrong with a Rock Island .45.









    Jersey

  5. #5
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shasta County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,231

    Post imported post

    Nice job overall.

    I realize your circumstances are somewhat different than mine are, but I would have done a couple of things differently.

    I would have asked if I were being detained, arrested or free to go. I would also have asked them to articulate their probable cause. I would have stated that I do not consent to their search. Other than name and address and questioning in this manner, I would not speak or answer any of their questions.

    I understand how difficult it is to keep to your game plan , when youre being confronted with officers (been there, done that.), which is why it is important to play it out in your head a few times before you go out on your open carry excursions.

    It is amusing to note that they wanted to charge you with "carrying an unloaded handgun"--Clearly the fact that you have your life, your freedom and your handgun no charges were able to be made by officers who would rather see you disarmed. Perhaps this incident will encourage others hampered by corrupt issuing authorities to carry openly, when they are unable to be licensed to carry concealed.

    I know it is a hassle, but I hope this doesnt discourage you from excersizing open carry in areas and in method in which it is legal.


    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    17

    Post imported post

    thanks for the feedback.

    I also forgot to mention the police attempted to lie to me and claim my handgun was unregistered YET they decided to give it back to me (although like I said it was disassembled).

  7. #7
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stanislaus County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,586

    Post imported post

    I got a feeling you're gonna be the CA version of Danbus. You're off to a roaring start!

    I would suggest you NOT open carry until you're more familiar with CA gun control laws. Most of them are misdemeanors, but in your situation (college student with limited time and budget) you should play it safe.

    For example:
    [the officer] stated that the police had the right to at least check if the firearm is unloaded at will (this last part i'm not sure of)...
    that would be pursuant to 12031(e)
    In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.
    I highly recommend MudCamper's flyer [thread, PDF link]

    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
    Supporter of the CalGuns Foundation - http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/
    Supporter of the Madison Society - www.madison-society.org


    Don't Tread On Me.

  8. #8
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stanislaus County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,586

    Post imported post

    As for this incident, I would contact the PD and make a formal complaint. Maybe this would get the attention of the top brass.

    You possibly also have a civil case here. That will definitely get the attention of top brass.

    Your person and property were searched and seized in violation of your constitutional rights. There was no articulable suspicion of any crime.
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
    Supporter of the CalGuns Foundation - http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/
    Supporter of the Madison Society - www.madison-society.org


    Don't Tread On Me.

  9. #9
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Santaquin, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,313

    Post imported post

    Sounds like you have some mixed feelings CA_Libertarian.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  10. #10
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shasta County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,231

    Post imported post

    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    I got a feeling you're gonna be the CA version of Danbus. You're off to a roaring start!

    I would suggest you NOT open carry until you're more familiar with CA gun control laws. Most of them are misdemeanors, but in your situation (college student with limited time and budget) you should play it safe.

    For example:
    [the officer] stated that the police had the right to at least check if the firearm is unloaded at will (this last part i'm not sure of)...
    that would be pursuant to 12031(e)
    In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.
    I highly recommend MudCamper's flyer [thread, PDF link]
    Well- I dont believe Hellrazor is black, so I dont think his open carry activities will have the same racial element that Danbus' seems to have. And in part, youre correct- anyone who wants to do this should be very well versed in the specifics.

    Despite not being completely certain about PC12031 and its unconstitutional establishment of 'probable cause', Hellrazor ultimately did the right thing- though the police DID rifle through his pockets and search him for ID WITHOUT probable cause- (PC12031 does NOT give the police probable cause todo anything other than inspect his weapon... the search of his person without a warrant or consent crossed the line. This I believe, is where Hellrazors complaint and civil case is.)
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  11. #11
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stanislaus County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,586

    Post imported post

    SGT Jensen wrote:
    Sounds like you have some mixed feelings CA_Libertarian.
    How so?
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
    Supporter of the CalGuns Foundation - http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/
    Supporter of the Madison Society - www.madison-society.org


    Don't Tread On Me.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    17

    Post imported post

    Upon thinking about what occured yesterday I also came to a realization, the police handcuffed and detained me without reading me my Miranda rights. I suppose this is simply more fodder against the Montclair PD.

    Also for your curiosity mentioned above I am white.

  13. #13
    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    712

    Post imported post

    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    As for this incident, I would contact the PD and make a formal complaint. Maybe this would get the attention of the top brass.

    You possibly also have a civil case here. That will definitely get the attention of top brass.

    Your person and property were searched and seized in violation of your constitutional rights. There was no articulable suspicion of any crime.
    I whole-heartedly agree! Just mention the words "Section 1983 Lawsuit" and you WILL GET THEIR ATTENTION. Now I don't know all about California open carry law and I'm not going to read it because it doesn't concern me, but if a police officer is only allowed to check to see if your handgun is loaded, then they violated your 4th amendment rights with an unecessary search and seizure. This opens them up to civil suit with NO cap on damages. Maybe you might not be such a poor college student after all? Now, I am not one of those people that believes that you should sue people for everything because when it comes down to it, the taxpayers are paying for it. But if this keeps happening to you, you must take action to get the police department to pull their heads out of their asses and start properly training their officers about this law.

  14. #14
    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    712

    Post imported post

    Hellrazor227 wrote:
    Upon thinking about what occured yesterday I also came to a realization, the police handcuffed and detained me without reading me my Miranda rights. I suppose this is simply more fodder against the Montclair PD.

    Also for your curiosity mentioned above I am white.
    In reality, everything doesn't happen like it does on "Cops" or in movies. Miranda warnings aren't required if you're just being detained and not formally questioned.

    They were still in the wrong even if they didn't arrest you because in a situation like that, an ordinary person would not feel that they are free to leave. Please consider my previous post.

  15. #15
    Newbie cato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California, USA
    Posts
    2,335

    Post imported post

    Miranda is only requiredwhen interrogation evidence is presented in court and the interrogation occurred while one was "in custody".Your detention in handcuffs would be considered "in custody" for the sake of Miranda.Many departments have regulations that require officersto"Read you your Rights" but outside of that there was no violation for then not doing so.It would only come into play ifthe evidencewas being introduced in court.


    Attached Images Attached Images

  16. #16
    Founder's Club Member MudCamper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Sebastopol, California, USA
    Posts
    710

    Post imported post

    It's amazing, although sadly, not too surprising, that all these cops don't even know the damn law.

    My only advice is to actually carry copies of all the relevant laws with you. How about in the same pocket as the mags?

    And, way to go Hellrazor!



  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    17

    Post imported post

    E-mailed the lawyers recommended from several gun sites (www.tmllp.com) and they replied :

    "You are right on the law, so technically you might have a claim. But
    its not worth litigating in my opinion. We would not be interested in the
    case." - C D Michel

    I'll probably try calling a few more lawyers (if anybody can recommend one in So Cal i'm all ears). Part of me says not to pursue it at all but then the other part says that I should stand up for my rights. For now I'll at least call and see what my options are.

    p.s. also open carried today into a supermarket to go to the bank located inside. I got a few looks (as I used to work there) but the people all knew me so I wasn't hassled.

  18. #18
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Stanislaus County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,586

    Post imported post

    Hellrazor227 wrote:
    "You are right on the law, so technically you might have a claim. But
    its not worth litigating in my opinion. We would not be interested in the
    case." - C D Michel

    I'll probably try calling a few more lawyers (if anybody can recommend one in So Cal i'm all ears). Part of me says not to pursue it at all but then the other part says that I should stand up for my rights. For now I'll at least call and see what my options are.
    I think it's just a matter of how predictibly biased the courts are to officers. Even though you're right, the officers are not likely to be held accountable in court. I'm not sure if it's formal or informal, but they're basically immune to criminal or civil proceedings if they were ignorant of the law (a defense that would get a 'civilian' laughed right out of the courtroom).

    I think you will have to proceed without an attorney (not advisable), or agree to pay for one up front and hope you recoup the costs in the biased court system (also not advisable). Isn't our 'justice' system wonderful?
    Participant in the Free State Project - "Liberty in Our Lifetime" - www.freestateproject.org
    Supporter of the CalGuns Foundation - http://www.calgunsfoundation.org/
    Supporter of the Madison Society - www.madison-society.org


    Don't Tread On Me.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    32

    Post imported post

    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    Isn't our 'justice' system wonderful?
    There's been this recurring theme about how much of a crock the final line is in the Pledge of Allegance.

  20. #20
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shasta County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,231

    Post imported post

    Hellrazor227 wrote:
    E-mailed the lawyers recommended from several gun sites (http://www.tmllp.com) and they replied :

    "You are right on the law, so technically you might have a claim. But
    its not worth litigating in my opinion. We would not be interested in the
    case." - C D Michel
    This unfortunately, sounds pretty familiar to me. Funny, I thought attorneys who specialized in firearms law, defended people with firearms law issues.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  21. #21
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Bear, Delaware, USA
    Posts
    1,241

    Post imported post

    OC-Glock19 wrote:
    I just have one question for you Hellrazor: Do they clank together when you walk?
    R.O.F.L.

  22. #22
    State Researcher HankT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Invisible Mode
    Posts
    6,217

    Post imported post

    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    I got a feeling you're gonna be the CA version of Danbus. You're off to a roaring start!
    Uh-oh.



  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    2

    Post imported post

    No offense your too intelligent and well verse CA weapon law and etc. But what is your sole purpose of carrying unloaded handgun? Some criminals may be smart and knows the law just like you do. They know it is only legal to carry openly if weapon is unloaded. They spot you. They sneak on you. You won't even get a chance to take your mag out. Boom its done!
    To me open carry is a good thing if you can carry loaded. Even if you can. You still need to practice your draw to the shortest possible time.
    Honestly.... I'd be a bit shy to holster my gun openly (unloaded) walking around the mall.
    Get your CCW... I think you can prepare a well written good cause and be granted if you happen to pass psychological evaluation testing. Just don't mention
    "Shortly thereafter I spotted a police officer (a lady who if I was a criminal could easily have handled)."

  24. #24
    State Pioneer ConditionThree's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Shasta County, California, USA
    Posts
    2,231

    Post imported post

    MacKawat wrote:
    No offense your too intelligent and well verse CA weapon law and etc. But what is your sole purpose of carrying unloaded handgun? Some criminals may be smart and knows the law just like you do. They know it is only legal to carry openly if weapon is unloaded. They spot you. They sneak on you. You won't even get a chance to take your mag out. Boom its done!
    To me open carry is a good thing if you can carry loaded. Even if you can. You still need to practice your draw to the shortest possible time.
    Honestly.... I'd be a bit shy to holster my gun openly (unloaded) walking around the mall.
    Get your CCW... I think you can prepare a well written good cause and be granted if you happen to pass psychological evaluation testing. Just don't mention
    "Shortly thereafter I spotted a police officer (a lady who if I was a criminal could easily have handled)."
    There are a number of purposes to lawfully open carrying an unloadedhandgun in California.

    1) Political activism-most of California is not "shall issue" and does not recognize the 2A.Carrying lawfully in those counties where issuance is restricted can be a catalyst to real "CCW' LTC reform.

    2) Regardless of whether or not it is loaded per 12031, youare two functions from lethal force should you need it- You cannot do this if your weapon is in a locked container in your vehicleor sitting in a safe at home. I would say this form of armed response is more timely than calling the police any any jurisdiction.

    3) Crime deterrent- the presence of an armed person in any venue raises the stakes of criminal behavior to life or death should the criminal commit any violent offense. Most criminals 'case' their victims before taking their chance on commitiing a crime- they assess weaknesses, strengths, opportunity, and risks. They do not gravitate to 'hard' targets or victims that are likely to present a significant obstacle to what it is they want. This is why most robberies we see reported are convenience stores. small motels, and taxi cab driverslate at night and not banks with armed guards in broad daylight. Criminals are opportunisitic, cowardly, and rightfully more fearful of an armed citizen than they are of police.

    Now, this advice you mete out for our friend to get a "CCW'. In some places in California, the only way you get a license to carry concealed is to be a celebrity or generous political ally to a Sheriff. Itsthat, or you rise up through the ranks of city politics or the judiciary to obtain a LTC.This form of cronyism excludes average people form excersizing a right to protect themselves. It must be apparent to all that some issuing authorities willonly be compeled to issue a LTC concealed by court ruling. It is simply not an option.

    On the other hand, there are those that believe that the system, even when issuance is readily available, is only another form of gun control to regulate law abiding citizens. Further, the idea that an applicant should submit to psychological testing before being issued a license is just another excuse to pick and chose who should or should not carry a firearm in self-defense. There are some who will abstain from participating in such a system, when there is an alternative.
    New to OPEN CARRY in California? Click and read this first...

    NA MALE SUBJ ON FOOT, LS NB 3 AGO HAD A HOLSTERED HANDGUN ON HIS RIGHT HIP. WAS NOT BRANDISHING THE WEAPON, BUT RP FOUND SUSPICIOUS.
    CL SUBJ IN COMPLIANCE WITH LAW


    Support the 2A in California - Shop Amazon for any item and up to 15% of all purchases go back to the Calguns Foundation. Enter through either of the following links
    www.calgunsfoundation.org/amazon
    www.shop42a.com

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    2

    Post imported post

    Well....Point is why carry if unloaded? Before criminals commit a crime they make sure their weapon are loaded with a round chambered ready to take you down. They will not by any chance give you any notice or allow you to load, chamber, count ten step and draw.
    Carrying unloaded weapon is crime deterrent? I disagree. That would be an apple to the eye of the would be criminal I would think. Not only they get your wallet they also get a bonus handgun to sell to other non law abiding buddies to commit more crime.
    IMO... a handgun is not a weapon if not loaded. Criminals are very well aware of that.
    For me open carry is to be able to carry loaded.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •