Can we press charges against police officers when they break the law?

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Johnny Law wrote:

Expvideo,

If you were to actually sign up and do it, yes it would help.They areset up to build better relationships with the public, and to form ties with citizens who are wanting to further their understanding of police work. It's a chance to go inside of a world that you have only seen from the outside. You would be free to ask q's and not be ridiculed for your comments (unlike this forum). Sound like something you would like to do?.

The other option is continue to collect all the negative stories, and draw broad uninformed conclusions as to how ALL Officers act.

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Maybe ALL cops don't act like that, but ENOUGH of them do to make it so that I have an overall bad taste in mymouth about police officers. I still treat them with respect, but I don't trust them, and I am affraid of them. As a law abiding citizen, I am affraid of the police. No citizen's academy is going to take away the fact that I have been repeatedly mistreated by police officers, without provocation, and while being polite and not acting like a know-it-all. I've seen enough mistreatment personally, and read enough complete lies in police reports, AND been assaulted by a police officer when I didn't do anything to provoke him... that I don't want to give them another chance. I'm done with the police, and I don't plan on calling them in the future, because I don't desire to be assualted and threatened again for doing absolutely nothing. No academy is going to clear up some misunderstanding, because thinking that it's wrong for the police to abuse me and lie about it in their reports is NOT a misunderstanding.

I'm sick and tired of cops. I'm done with them. I'll take care of myself. There's a saying in police circles "If you don't like cops, next time call a crackhead". How about I don't "call" anybody. I'll take care of myself. I trust me not to abuse citizens without provocation. Cops have proven time and time again to me that they will, so it can't just be bad luck.


So I beg of you, help me to understand how a citizen's academy will explain to me why what happened in my last post was ok. I'd love to hear an explaination about why I don't deserve my constitutional rights. It must be my lack of understanding, so please enlighten me.

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Expvideo,

I do not condone any illegal or unjustified actions, and I'm not going to make any excuses for why these things may have happened.

Police take abuse from "citizens" as well. I've had all those same things happen to me all the way up to people trying to kill me. Don't interpret this as whining, as I am most certainly not seeking any sympathy. If I didn't like my job, I'd go do something else.

The only thing I would ask of you is to not assume that I am like theOfficers in your stories. You don't even know me, so how in the world can you judge my character.

I came on this board to learn, and to share knowledge and I have no malice toward you or anyone else here. I also do not assume that all people are bad simply because I've dealt with so many a-holes. I meet plenty of great people as well, and have formed many friendships.

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Johnny Law wrote:

Bear 45/70 wrote:

Johnny Law wrote:

I would hope to God I never hear those words from an Officer. But if that were to happen, and the incident went to court, you would have your opportunity to convince the jury of what had happened. If it was found that there were no legal grounds for the arrest, you would be exonerated. If you could prove that the Officer had said these words, The Prosecutor COULD charge him. Keep in mind that taped conversations are not admissible, and recording a conversation without all the parties consents is illegal.

Any Officer that would take such actions should not be in Law Enforcement, and probably would not last long, let alone be hired in the first place.

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You are very naive if you think cops never threaten citizens. Hell,cops lie all the time. Cops claim to hate being lied to and then turn around and lie to get the citizen to respond likethey want, thencops are two faced andare lower than any criminal out there lying to them.

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Bear,

I am sorry that your attitude is such toward Police. I personally have not been offended by your comments and names, as they don't apply to me. I can tell you that the vast majority of Officers are far above your negative generalizations.

I would urge you and anyone else interested to go through any Dept's Citizen's Academy. You would meet a great bunch of guys, and might even make a good friend. Most people who have done this gain a new perspective on Police, and have a far better understanding of how and why we do the things we do.

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I personally know a dozen or more officers, whom I ride, hunt,fish and just basically recreate with. My wife knows almost all the local deputies, troopersand officers, being a para-medic that sort of thing happens. Her message to gals dating cops is "they're fun to play with but for God's sake don't marry on."So any class is not gonna change my perspective which has take 60 years to form. Most cops, well at least above average cops are 49% bad guy and 51% good guy or they wouldn't be able to think like that bad guys and catch them. But that just reinforces the "cops lie" thing. Hell, all you have to do is watch Cops on TV and what I say is apparent.

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Johnny Law wrote:

Expvideo,

If you were to actually sign up and do it, yes it would help.They areset up to build better relationships with the public, and to form ties with citizens who are wanting to further their understanding of police work. It's a chance to go inside of a world that you have only seen from the outside. You would be free to ask q's and not be ridiculed for your comments (unlike this forum). Sound like something you would like to do?.

The other option is continue to collect all the negative stories, and draw broad uninformed conclusions as to how ALL Officers act.

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What are you, 12 years old? You need to grow up and see the light. Reality sucks compared to the fantasy you are living.

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Johnny Law,

The other option is continue to collect all the negative stories

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Dude, he's not "collecting" "negative stories", he's having actual negative experiences happen to him, courtesy of your fellow-leo's.

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What are you, 12 years old? You need to grow up and see the light. Reality sucks compared to the fantasy you are living.

I guess I would have to ask you then why would you hang around all these horrible cops?

Also Bear if you are 60 something, why haven't you outgrown name calling? I have never stooped to your level and returned any of your childishdrivel.

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Johnny Law wrote:

What are you, 12 years old? You need to grow up and see the light. Reality sucks compared to the fantasy you are living.

I guess I would have to ask you then why would you hang around all these horrible cops?

Also Bear if you are 60 something, why haven't you outgrown name calling? I have never stooped to your level and returned any of your childishdrivel.

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Read my post carefully about what my wife says about cops. It starts "They are................" This ain't name calling son, BTW I can call you that because all my boys are a lot older than you. But, if you insiston stating things that are from some fantasy world then I have to assume you are of an age that still believes in fantasies. The only drivel is what continues to spout from your mouth, which ignores the reality of the real world. My 22 year old daughter has a much better grip on reality than you do. If you take your attitude to the street, one of two things will happen. Either you will run home to mommy crying you don't like it there or some slime ball will either hurt or kill you. Damn I hope you get a great FTO.

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Bear,

I was referring to some of your previous posts regarding the names, or did you forget already?

As for my age, I have been on the street for 14 years, had great FTO's, and my attitude is still exceptional. I cannot say the same for yours however. I would imagine it has caused you a lot grief over time. You obviously enjoy attempting to provoke others, but I won't stoop to your level and play your game. I've dealt with plenty of people like you before.

Also there have been several slimeballs over the years that have tried to kill me, and theyALL reside under 6' of dirt now.

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Johnny Law wrote:

Also there have been several slimeballs over the years that have tried to kill me, and theyALL reside under 6' of dirt now.

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I suppose you notched your gun each time? I have tried very hard not to respond to what you have been saying, I can go to olyblog and act somewhat annoying if I want.

The way you invoked your "kills" almost as an afterthought is almost like a threat. However IF you are really a LEO you continue to give clues (assuming they are true) of your identity. You claim you are in the Puget Sound, you claim your department countersues people, and now you claim you have killed "several slimeballs" There are not many cops with "several" kills, that will help in narrowing the playing field. If I reread all your posts, I will probably find more clues.

Can you not accept that people will OC, and people who are breaking no law have this peculiar idea that they should be treated as a person not breaking a law?

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Johnny Law wrote:

Bear,

I was referring to some of your previous posts regarding the names, or did you forget already?

As for my age, I have been on the street for 14 years, had great FTO's, and my attitude is still exceptional. I cannot say the same for yours however. I would imagine it has caused you a lot grief over time. You obviously enjoy attempting to provoke others, but I won't stoop to your level and play your game. I've dealt with plenty of people like you before.

Also there have been several slimeballs over the years that have tried to kill me, and theyALL reside under 6' of dirt now.

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Well your stated views sure don't represent someone who has done 14 years on the street and did several slime balls. Expessialy since most officers rarely if ever have to shot at, much less kill someone. OH, by the way, your kills don't impress at all.

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I dont think all police officers treat people the way expo is describing, and I think its not right for anyone to gang up on JOHNNY LAW, but JL, you are taking peoples stories to personally. They arent talking about you unless they are talking about you which only you know. I do believe ALL police officers LOVE and thrive on the powertheir commision grants, and its easy to see that even good people with that power tend to take things too far at some point or another. "Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutly". I have never had any really bad expiriences with police, I respect the position not neccesarily the man, I think you (JL) should go on YOU TUBE and search police coruption or police harsass or any variation and I know its not you butsome of the videosmight make you believe that their are a lot of bad apples in your barrel.

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Johnny Law wrote:

Expvideo,

I do not condone any illegal or unjustified actions, and I'm not going to make any excuses for why these things may have happened.

Police take abuse from "citizens" as well. I've had all those same things happen to me all the way up to people trying to kill me. Don't interpret this as whining, as I am most certainly not seeking any sympathy. If I didn't like my job, I'd go do something else.

The only thing I would ask of you is to not assume that I am like theOfficers in your stories. You don't even know me, so how in the world can you judge my character.

I came on this board to learn, and to share knowledge and I have no malice toward you or anyone else here. I also do not assume that all people are bad simply because I've dealt with so many a-holes. I meet plenty of great people as well, and have formed many friendships.

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I understand that you take abuse from citizens as well, but the difference is that you signed up knowing that you would be taking some unneccessary flack from civilians. As a citizen, I should not expect to be abused by the police. I do expect it, but I shouldn't have to.

Someone once tried to convince me the same thing about gangstas. I was at a party with some friends a couple years ago, and three gangsta-looking guys came in the front door ready to party with us. I thanked the host and said that I would be leaving, because I don't hang out with gangstas. She said I was very prejudice, because not everyone that dresses and acts like 50 cent is a criminal, just a few bad apples. I've seen enough violence from people dressed like that and speaking like that, that I am uncomfortable being around them.

I havealso seen enough abuse of the legal system as well as physical abuse from people wearing police uniforms, that I hold a prejudice against the police. If you are as you say you are, then you have my deepest appreciation for doing the job you do. But when I run into you on the street, no matter how polite I may be acting, inside I will be horrified that you are going to direct the same abuse to me that the large majority of police officers I've met have. Ill be affraid that you are going to overstep your authority and I will fear that you will arrest me for things that aren't illegal. I'll be affraid that you will physically abuse me if I even slightly disagree with you, no matter how compliant I am. I will be affraid that you will attempt to fish for something to threaten to arrest me with, and I will knowfrom personal experience thatthat you will not report this encounter as it happened, but rather in a light that makes me look like a thug and you look very patient and noble.

I hope that you can prove me wrong some day.

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With regards to the original question, you have the option of going the federal route and filing a Section 1983 claim, which is a lawsuit specifically for the redress of grievances against an officer, his supervisors, the department and the state/municipality that employs the police.

It essentially has two requirements:

1) That the officer acted 'under color' of the law. e.g. they were acting in an official capacity and not as a private citizen.

2) That a recognized right had been violated.

So, the act had to occur (not really applicable to the posed scenario) and, even then, depending on what a 'reasonable officer' would know, they can be granted qualified or absolute immunity of they believe that were acting in accordance with the law.

So, if it's something like being arrested for open carrying when the US and your States' Constitution protect it and there are no laws forbidding it... that might be a prime scenario for a $1983 case. It gets into tort and common law and that's about where my understanding stops... IANAL.

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If anyone is interested, I have a good friend who was a police officer of the highest integrity. He was medically retired, and then went to law school. He was so fed up with dirty cops, that he now specializes in litigating police officers and departments. If you would like his services, he has given permission to pass his name along.

Jim

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The charge of conspiracy comes to mind but it is difficult to prove because THEY guard all the records.

What happens when cops investigate cops? For example, 18 officers investigate a minor accident involving one of their own:

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/11/14/Neighborhoodtimes/Woman_questions_crash.shtml

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Trigger Dr wrote:

If anyone is interested, I have a good friend who was a police officer of the highest integrity. He was medically retired, and then went to law school. He was so fed up with dirty cops, that he now specializes in litigating police officers and departments. If you would like his services, he has given permission to pass his name along.

Jim

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Please PM me.

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It seems the police often feel they are the good guys getting the bad guys so if they have to bend the law to make it happen that is ok . No matter who they have to step on to do it. Many of the detective movies on tv promote this concept. LEs also feel they must always be in charge ofevery situation. Some can be very abrasivein achieving this goal "Obey me or else".

Wasn't it LE that drew down on some kidsplaying with yellow and orange toy guns this past week? Arrested them for not obeying, took them to jail. With this kind of mentality it is hard to demand respect and actually get it. Recent article about wife calling LE because her husband was locked it the bathroom with a knife wanting to commit suicide. Cops kicked in the bathroom door and shot him because helunged at them witha knife. Yes they really were that?? I don't know whats the word? It is all about perception and right now the perception of LE is not all that great.

Since LEOs have so much power. Given to them by us citizens by the way. A bad encounter can and often does cause a lot of problems for the citizen. After a while you just shun and distrust LEOs. Why should I have to know the law when approached by a law enforcement officer? If they were honest and administered it fairly there would be no need. So instead of them protecting my rights I have to protect them from LE. That is pitiful. It is good that LE is trying to clean up it's image and doing some PR but there is a long way to go.



irfner

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I personally know a dozen or more officers, whom I ride, hunt,fish and just basically recreate with. My wife knows almost all the local deputies, troopersand officers, being a para-medic that sort of thing happens. Her message to gals dating cops is "they're fun to play with but for God's sake don't marry on."So any class is not gonna change my perspective which has take 60 years to form. Most cops, well at least above average cops are 49% bad guy and 51% good guy or they wouldn't be able to think like that bad guys and catch them. But that just reinforces the "cops lie" thing. Hell, all you have to do is watch Cops on TV and what I say is apparent.

Law,

One of the reasons that Concealed carry was taken out of the hands of the Police was exactly the arbitrary and ham handed nature of weapons permits allocationto persons of good character by the police. Bribery, extortion, racism, political payoffs for the police favor to obtain a permitdrove the citizens to take this simple Right out of the hands of the police and put it back into the hands of the People with the Preemption Law. I am 48 and have had much the same experiences with police as the others in this list have expounded and you are talking to a group of A+ certified good guys with clean records (due to weapon permit). I teach weapons training and can't imagine teaching a class on self-defense without covering a"Dealing with Police" section.

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an off duty police officer was pushed by my friend in a bar. Yes, only pushed, nothing else, after the police was being a total jerk to him. The police officer is saying my friend punched him , and I kicked him when he was on the ground. He fabricated the whole story and we are summoned to court. I want to know what I can do to prove this officer is lieing. He is pressing simple assault and harrassment.Can I take a polygraph? Am I able to have him take one? What rights do I have versus a bad cop?thanks for any information I can be provided. expvideo wrote:

In the case that a police officer says something along the lines of:

"If it did go to court, yeah, it would probably wind up in your favor, but you really don't want it to have to go that far, do you?"

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This is acknowledging that OC is legal, but threatening to arrest you and book you anyway. This is a violation of several laws, but here are the main ones that interest me:

RCW 9A.36.070
Coercion.
(1) A person is guilty of coercion if by use of a threat he compels or induces a person to engage in conduct which the latter has a legal right to abstain from, or to abstain from conduct which he has a legal right to engage in.

(2) "Threat" as used in this section means:

(a) To communicate, directly or indirectly, the intent immediately to use force against any person who is present at the time; or

(b) Threats as defined in *RCW 9A.04.110(25) (a), (b), or (c).

(3) Coercion is a gross misdemeanor.

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[/b]And

[/b]RCW 9.62.010
Malicious prosecution.

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Every person who shall, maliciously and without probable cause therefor, cause or attempt to cause another to be arrested or proceeded against for any crime of which he or she is innocent:

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(1) If such crime be a felony, is guilty of a class C felony and shall be punished by imprisonment in a state correctional facility for not more than five years; and

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(2) If such crime be a gross misdemeanor or misdemeanor, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.

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So here it is in black and white. It is a crime to threaten to arrest you when the cop knows that you haven't broken the law. It's not just unethical, or against procedures. It's a crime.

How do we go about prosecuting these thugs that think they can subject us toa lengthy processwith the legal system for doing something they don't approve of?
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Man I am so glad I live in Grays Harbor.I have been here for 20 yrs and never
seen any officers like what you guys talk about. I know there out there but I can
only say good stuff about them here.