Thoughts (rant) inspired by Danbus's latest incident...

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Seems like everytime someone on this forum reports standing up for your/our/their rights, I see a lot of this:
"Oh, we might lose our rights! Quick! Stick our heads in the sand and hope for better government officials next election! Just... be quiet, and maybe they will go away, I hope. *whimper*"

You know who you sound like? The NRA. And we've SEEN what good they've been doing lately.

You're letting a bunch of no-moral, pansy-arse, limp-wristed Liberals run your behavior, HOPING and PRAYING that your rights aren't violated too badly.

ANYBODY that pays a d:cuss: bit of attention to politics knows this... Libs are there for the rush of power, and they will abandon their voters and principals in a HEARTBEAT to keep it..

If you bury your head in the sand, if you hide, if you cower in fear in your bed, you are pissing on your God-Given Rights, and that disgusts me to no end.

Fill in the blank: "A Right not exercised is ____"

Antis and other Libs know only one thing, and that's because it worked for them in the 60's. Their little hippy-peace marches and public demonstrations.

Yeah, they can pull incidents like Dan's Hampton run-in, and use that, but are they going to? Probably not. I'm pulling out the race card a minute, but do you REALLY think a bleeding-heart liberal is going to side with the cops versus a young black man that lives in a (low end?) neighborhood?

Have you ever seen what happens when you confront the blatant stupidity of Liberal ideas? It freaks them out and puts them on the defensive to no end, because deep down, they know their silly ideals and fantasies can't hold water to proper scrutiny and sound ideas.

We're here to promote safety, well being, and the Right to Arms, not shiver and shake in our homes like sheeple, all the while hoping someone will save us. There is no 911 for bad government.

If you don't like the way Danbus, or anyone else did something, convince someone else to start OCing, or OC more yourself. Educate a fence-sitter. Hells, educate an anti. The rank and file? Some of 'em just don't know better.

What I'm saying is, if you think someone did something to hurt the OC and/or RKBA cause, do something EXTRA to counter-act that "hurt" that you perceive.

Hell, don't wait. Do something today. Pre-empt those actions you don't like. I mean, GOD FORBID you(and you know who you are) actually do something outside this forum to support the Rights and causes you so loudly proclaim on here. Put your money where your mouth is, get your arse out of that chair, and do something for the good of the Second Amendment.

You Computerchair Generals and Legalise Laptop Quarterbacks look really impressive and all, but I can gurantee you that some Anti, somewhere, is pointing at all the crying and the "Don't do that! We might lose some of our rights we're too afraid to use!", and that Anti is loving every minute of it.

Plus, how many members of the general public do you think are going to drop in on this site randomly? Not very many.

Stop being weak, or you will be sheared.

Don't sit there whining, complaining, and bemoaning your potentially lost rights. Liberals can't stand up to strong ideas and morally just principles.

You're not one of the sheeple out there, so quit acting like one.

Unless you just LIKE being an NRA jellyfish.

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Gee, pretty testy post, AbNo.

I do understand your frustration.

I'm not sure it will have the effect you desire.

I wonder if there mightbe a better way to inspire 2A supporters into action.

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I will tell you right now, very matter of factly, that I mean every d:cuss: word of it.

I'm sick and tired of these side-line second-guessers telling everyone ELSE what they should not have done, in a situation they weren't even NEAR, let alone involved in, from the comfort and safety of their home or office.

"You shouldn't've done this!"
"You didn't do that how I would've done it!"
"Oh! You're standing up for our rights? Don't do that!"

I'm tired of people everyone else second-guessing situations they weren't in with what someone should NOT have done, without having the courage to offer up what they at least THINK should've been done in that situation.

It's also a call for us, as the keepers of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms to take action against injustices as we see fit.

Here's a chart for those of you that may appear in a Dilbert strip, to illustrate the differences when both Antis and RKBA people are being politcally weak, verses taking action and challenging their opponents.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/268/chartfc4.png

Be strong in the face of adversity, unlike your opponents who will turn tail or hide....

Or, most likely, cower while on hold with 911.

Again, if you don't think someone helped secure and retain your RKBA, do something that you think will. If nothing else, you will get more people interested and involved in what we are doing. In the cause that benefits us all.

Just don't sit and berate people that are brave enough to take action, while you sit and wait for a "good election" before you unbury your head.

"I wouldn't have crossed that river on 26 December! He's going to get our rights taken away!"

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+1000!

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I am with you AbNo! I have tested the waters by OC'ing at my daughters Elementary school, our local police station, the SLC airport, and at my Mom's house. (Democrat! :shock: ) Hell, I have even painted open carry dot org on the side of my Serpa!

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Well said AbNo.

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Excellent Abno! I agree 100%

I have posted some of my decisions toCarry open and CCwhere I'm not supposed to because of sheeple laws and cries to the governments from the sheepto "Please keep us safe, Bahhhh baahhhh"...I usually have gotten some sort of "Caution Warning" response about oh... you shouldn’t post that here... "They" may be watching... and you'll get in trouble...

I have said it before there is but one law that I worry about where keeping andbearing arms is concerned, the 2nd All others are null, void and powerless.

Freedom is not free, who among us has the will and the courage to stand up and be counted.

Live your convictions people.

as a side note, try as I might to have an encounter to force "My agenda"the closest I have come was at Patrick Henry mall last month where I was asked to leave or Cover, then there was the little incident at the Norfolk airport...:banghead: ...I have been carrying (both open and CC since the late '70s here in Hampton Roads and abroad) Leo's just nod,people are polite, and I find that I'm much nicer when I am carrying my little friend.

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Abno, I would oc alot more, but truthfully im still very afriad to do so. Ya i know by doing so i may deter a crime or two, or become a target of one. I also may educate the public about responsible gun ownership. My concern is, say i do end up facing some ignorant cop, he arrests me, and my lawer ends up sucking hard and the charges stick. Guess what, Ill no longer be able to carry any firearm, shoot any firearm, or beable to enjoy any firearm for a very long time, possibly the rest of my life. I mean your asking me to possibly give up something i enjoy emmensly. Christ if something like that happens, neither my wife, nor my son when he turns 21 will be able to have a gun in the house as well.

I just have a hard time risking my favorite past time, if In ever makes it legal and spelled out in law sure ill do it. Technicaly its legal now, but its only defacto legal, and i may not get a firearms charge, but ill get a disturbing the peace charge and or creating a public nuasance or inciting public fear/panic.

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Mordis wrote:

Abno, I would oc alot more, but truthfully im still very afriad to do so. Ya i know by doing so i may deter a crime or two, or become a target of one. I also may educate the public about responsible gun ownership. My concern is, say i do end up facing some ignorant cop, he arrests me, and my lawer ends up sucking hard and the charges stick. Guess what, Ill no longer be able to carry any firearm, shoot any firearm, or beable to enjoy any firearm for a very long time, possibly the rest of my life. I mean your asking me to possibly give up something i enjoy emmensly. Christ if something like that happens, neither my wife, nor my son when he turns 21 will be able to have a gun in the house as well.

I just have a hard time risking my favorite past time, if In ever makes it legal and spelled out in law sure ill do it. Technicaly its legal now, but its only defacto legal, and i may not get a firearms charge, but ill get a disturbing the peace charge and or creating a public nuasance or inciting public fear/panic.

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What state do you reside in?

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Mordis wrote:

Abno, I would oc alot more, but truthfully im still very afriad to do so. Ya i know by doing so i may deter a crime or two, or become a target of one. I also may educate the public about responsible gun ownership. My concern is, say i do end up facing some ignorant cop, he arrests me, and my lawer ends up sucking hard and the charges stick. Guess what, Ill no longer be able to carry any firearm, shoot any firearm, or beable to enjoy any firearm for a very long time, possibly the rest of my life. I mean your asking me to possibly give up something I enjoy emmensly. Christ if something like that happens, neither my wife, nor my son when he turns 21 will be able to have a gun in the house as well.

I just have a hard time risking my favorite past time, if In ever makes it legal and spelled out in law sure ill do it. Technicaly its legal now, but its only defacto legal, and i may not get a firearms charge, but ill get a disturbing the peace charge and or creating a public nuasance or inciting public fear/panic.

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This is exactly the kind of climate we are trying to fight, and if that's the case, you'd better hope you don't get arrested for wearing a red shirt while you are at it, because I am pretty sure that whatever state you live in does not have a clearly stated law allowing you to wear that, or any other red shirt.

Also, you should REALLY say what state you live in, since no one can help you as you are now.

Also, EVERYTHING is, by default, "defacto legal."

I don't see you sneaking groceries in your house in fear because you're afraid you might insite panic.

"Oh my god! He has bacon!"

Then again, depending on where your beighbors are from, pork could be dangerous....

You describe a climate that is EXACTLY what we are trying to combat, not cower in fear of.

Hell, get a buddy to OC with you. It's what I did.

He doesn't do it as much anymore, but I still carry about 70% of the time, including three different grocery stores, Target, 7-11, Autozone, and all three SHeetz stations here in town. I do, however lack a CHP, needed to carry at my school.

The law is not a list of what you can and cannot do, just what you can not do, and in some cases, how you go about doing things.

You say you are worried about having a bad judge, and a terrible lawyer? There's plenty of helpful lawyers listed around this site, as well as plenty of appeals. Hell, Danbus has won WITHOUT a lawyer, because he took the time to read, understand, and learn the law.

Ignorance of the law, asside from being no excuse, is a TERRIBLE disservice to yourself and others.

Hell, you've even said you want your son to be able to own weapons, what good will it do him, if he can't have them with him?

It sounds cruel, but from what I have read, you are EXACTLY the kind of guy I was talking about in the OP on this thread. As far as I can tell, you want your rights, and you would be willing to stand up for them, but you don't want it to be too inconvenient, or you'd prefer someone else do it for you.

I'm sorry, but McDonald's is all out of RKBA. Please try again next legislative session. If the election goes how you want it.

In short, don't be this.


At least, from what I've seen, you are not bossing people around while they are out being brave and standing up for what they believe in. Thank you for that much.

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AbNo wrote:

Seems like everytime someone on this forum reports standing up for your/our/their rights, I see a lot of this:
"Oh, we might lose our rights! Quick! Stick our heads in the sand and hope for better government officials next election! Just... be quiet, and maybe they will go away, I hope. *whimper*"

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Nah. It hardly ever happens at all. Weak point, since it so obviously wrong. Most events reported here where someone is standing up for 2A rights are met with repeated and extensive praise. You can look it up.


AbNo wrote:

Yeah, they can pull incidents like Dan's Hampton run-in, and use that, but are they going to? Probably not. I'm pulling out the race card a minute, but do you REALLY think a bleeding-heart liberal is going to side with the cops versus a young black man that lives in a (low end?) neighborhood?

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"Probably not?" Optimistic feller you are...



AbNo wrote:

What I'm saying is, if you think someone did something to hurt the OC and/or RKBA cause, do something EXTRA to counter-act that "hurt" that you perceive.

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Why not just:

a) get the guy who "did something to hurt OC... and... RKBA" to stop doing it?

and

b) get other guys who might do what theguy who "did something to hurt OC... and... RKBA" to know that it will hurt OC and RKBA if they do it too?


Makes more sense to correctand avoid thehurtful behavior than to keep trying to offset it. Especially when the issues and consequences are so important.




AbNo wrote:

Stop being weak, or you will be sheared.

Don't sit there whining, complaining, and bemoaning your potentially lost rights. Liberals can't stand up to strong ideas and morally just principles.

You're not one of the sheeple out there, so quit acting like one.

Unless you just LIKE being an NRA jellyfish.

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You're what, 20-21? New to carry. Inexperienced. You were the fellow who wanted to carry a 1911 in Condition 2, weren't ya?

The rant is fine. That's what forums are for. But you're a bitinexperienced to be a sheepherder...

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Oh, I figured the resident troll was going to poke his nose in here.... I surprised it took you so long.

Too busy out there concealed carrying a squirt gun? :lol:

HankT wrote:

AbNo wrote:

Seems like everytime someone on this forum reports standing up for your/our/their rights, I see a lot of this:
"Oh, we might lose our rights! Quick! Stick our heads in the sand and hope for better government officials next election! Just... be quiet, and maybe they will go away, I hope. *whimper*"

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Nah. It hardly ever happens at all. Weak point, since it so obviously wrong. Most events reported here where someone is standing up for 2A rights are met with repeated and extensive praise. You can look it up.

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A few examples... Let's start with you, in the OP's reference thread.

HankT wrote:

Have you ever considered trying to figure out what your part in this continuing saga of ejections/arrests might be? You  might try that sometime.
...
At this point, I am beginning to consider the argument that you are an overall negative to the OC movement because of your part in the string of stops you have endured.

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Next, same thread....
PT111 wrote:

I am just going to say that if the police were investigating an incident whether or not a crime had been committed and someone comes walking up trying to find out what is going on while carrying a weapon, then they have every right to disarm that person and question them the same as they would the person they were questioning to start with.  Since you took the liberty to interject yourself into their investigation then they had every right to consider you as part of that investigation.  IANAL nor do I play one on TV and I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn Express lst night.  However if I were a LEO and someone tried to get involved with it they are either a partner or better be their lawyer.  Seems to me you went looking for trouble,

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Still page one...
psmartin wrote:

It's not wise to meddle with an active a police investigation...
OCDO'ers aren't gaining any traction by meddling in police affairs of others...
Call me crazy.. But if the the police are called in my neighborhood.. I'm NOT going to be walking over to make sure the police are doing their job...

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UTOC-45-44 wrote:

danbus. I think unfortunately that you might wanna reevaluate if you are maybe a little bit too "eager" to "stand your ground"...

What do I know. I was never at ANY of the 4 (?) instances. But it's starting to be a Pattern. Which could start to look "Bad" for the OC community. I Love OC, don't get me wrong.

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peter nap wrote:

Judgment and ego's doen'y necessarly go together. The way it looks to me, is like you went there to satisfy your ego. The I can Carry and you can't stop me.....attitude .

That's fine and is your decision.

Cops have to carry and show ID, Reporters have to carry ID, Insurance Agents have to carry ID. Ordinary Citizens do not! But a citizen approaching a crime scene, armed should exercise some judgment and have ID...and show it on request. That's not the same thing as a police officer interrupting your dinner at Fudruckers and asking for ID.

If one wishes to make a statement and NEVER SHOW ID...that's his business, but don't whine about it when you get hauled down to the pokie. This makes all gun owners look bad and especially OC'rs.

Black and armed irritates me also. I DISLIKE RACISTS. I also dislike people who use their race to explain poor judgment. IMHO...under the same circumstances. the same thing would happen to a white person!

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And that's ALL just from Page 1. The whole reason the OP on THIS thread was started was because it didn't get any better from then on out.

Oh, and good job saying no one got on his case, when you have EVERY TIME.


HankT wrote:

"Probably not?"  Optimistic feller you are...

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Red herring. Ignored.



HankT wrote:

Why not just:
a) get the guy who "did something to hurt OC... and... RKBA" to stop doing it?

and

b) get other guys who might do what the guy who "did something to hurt OC... and... RKBA" to know that it will hurt OC and RKBA if they do it too?  

Makes  more sense to correct and avoid the hurtful behavior than to keep trying to offset it. Especially when the issues and consequences are so important.

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Because it goes along with my main point, that people are screaming over nothing when they go on and on about "OMG! Teh poleese r gunna tak our rights away!!!111!"

Berating people for standing up to those that would violate our rights just shows jealousy, or simple fear. The way that these people scream at those out there fighting, in the trenches so to speak, it's doubtful they are going to have an impact on that supposed "rights risker", or his activities, and they know it.

Especially the repeat "offenders", in their book.

With that in mind, I put forth a challenge for these sheeple with guns (Armchair Lawyers...) for them to do something that WOULD have an impact on their community, instead of screaming in their jammies at the computer screen while their mothers make them hot chocolate before bed.



HankT wrote:

You're what, 20-21? New to carry. Inexperienced. You were the fellow who wanted to carry a 1911 in Condition 2, weren't ya? 

The rant is fine. That's what forums are for. But you're a bit inexperienced to be a sheepherder...

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Ah, ad hominem attacks, default tactic of those with nothing to say, nothing to contribute, and no valid argument.

Oh, and you're about 5 years short on that sadly attempted insult.

And yeah, I'd asked about a 1911 in Con2, but as you said... "That's what forums are for." I don't deny it, in fact, here's the thread.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=4081&forum_id=5

Plus, don't forget, my first carry gun was an XD. My second gun was a S&W 22-A. My third was a HiPoint 995. No hammers there. The 1911 was my first... "hammered" gun.

So, instead of flipping out on people, calling them names, or insulting their carry style, I asked about it, was given a bevy of information, and also took the time to study the design on my new weapon.

And now I have a greater appreciation for the 1911 design, and how it works.

I'm not ashamed by it. I sought knowledge on something I was unfamiliar with, and happily learned quite a great deal in the process. I'd consider that a rousing success.

That even was a series of positive contributions to this forum, and a great boon of information to me, as well. I'm actually quite pleased with it, and indeed thankful for the new information I received from it.

What positive contributions have YOU made, Hank?

Your trolling has failed. Ya can't even get a rise out of someone that's already PO'ed about something.

Maybe you should try sticking to the subject instead of BSing, strawmen, red herrings, and attacking the people instead of the argument.

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HankT wrote:

AbNo wrote:

Seems like everytime someone on this forum reports standing up for your/our/their rights, I see a lot of this:
"Oh, we might lose our rights! Quick! Stick our heads in the sand and hope for better government officials next election! Just... be quiet, and maybe they will go away, I hope. *whimper*"

Click to expand...

Nah. It hardly ever happens at all. Weak point, since it so obviously wrong. Most events reported here where someone is standing up for 2A rights are met with repeated and extensive praise. You can look it up.

Click to expand...

AbNo wrote:

And that's ALL just from Page 1. The whole reason the OP on THIS thread was started was because it didn't get any better from then on out.

Oh, and good job saying no one got on his case, when you have EVERY TIME.

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Ah, this is obviously some strange use of the wordevery that I wasn't previously aware of.

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Ah, this is obviously some strange use of the wordevery that I wasn't previously aware of

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Well, as long as he knows what the definition of 'is' is I'm cool with it.

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danbus wrote:

Mordis wrote:

Abno, I would oc alot more, but truthfully im still very afriad to do so. Ya i know by doing so i may deter a crime or two, or become a target of one. I also may educate the public about responsible gun ownership. My concern is, say i do end up facing some ignorant cop, he arrests me, and my lawer ends up sucking hard and the charges stick. Guess what, Ill no longer be able to carry any firearm, shoot any firearm, or beable to enjoy any firearm for a very long time, possibly the rest of my life. I mean your asking me to possibly give up something i enjoy emmensly. Christ if something like that happens, neither my wife, nor my son when he turns 21 will be able to have a gun in the house as well.

I just have a hard time risking my favorite past time, if In ever makes it legal and spelled out in law sure ill do it. Technicaly its legal now, but its only defacto legal, and i may not get a firearms charge, but ill get a disturbing the peace charge and or creating a public nuasance or inciting public fear/panic.

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What state do you reside in?

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I think he is from Utah.

Here we don't Black-on-White ( ABSOLUTELY NO PUN INTENDED and NOTHING with RACE to do) that says that we can OC. There are Laws and Codes that CAN be read and to a CERTAIN extent is up the "arrresting" Officers "interpretation" so to speak. I can see what Mordisis saying. "Don't risk your Rights so that you may not have ANY at all, cuz behind the Bar where are your Rights"

I OC and CC.

I use, to what I feel, common sense when and where I feel it moreOR less "appropriate" for the one or the other manner of carrying. We have a Brain for a reason so let's use it.

Just because we have a Right, which I agree with that we do, we don't have to be rude and obnoxious.

Remember "An Armed society IS a POLITE society". Manners...IS everything. How one Dress DOES make an Impression, althought it shouldn't. How one speaks ( all the :cuss:words) should NOT make a difference but unfortunately it does.

We live in a society were our P's & Q's are watched ALL the time.

Try to be Dressed like a HoBo and applying for a President position at AmEx for example. Wouldn't really work although it shouldn't make any difference, BUT IT STILL DOES:cuss:.

Just because I ( We ) enjoy the 2nd Amendment Right more than other wish to do doesn't mean that we have to act like a cop with a REALLY HEAVY BADGE

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HankT wrote:

AbNo wrote:

Seems like everytime someone on this forum reports standing up for your/our/their rights, I see a lot of this:

Click to expand...

Ah, this is obviously some strange use of the word every that I wasn't previously aware of.

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It's also obviously some strange use of the phrase "seems like" you aren't currently aware of. :quirky

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UTOC-45-44 wrote:

Just because I ( We ) enjoy the 2nd Amendment Right more than other wish to do doesn't mean that we have to act like a cop with a REALLY HEAVY BADGE

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Exactly. But it DOES mean we shouldn't be cowering in fear of our rights everytime we decide to carry or not that day.

What I'm trying to say is, you people (all of you people, and you know if it applies to you) like to sit there and be a on here while telling someone else that was just put on the spot they shouldn't have been a (phallus) when an unexpected situation presents itself.

Preparation only goes so far, and if you think we've seen the entire spectrum of possible encounters while carrying, think again.

Hells, JPierce had one to day I never expected (talk to my son).

In short, it's really kind of dumb and hypocritical to be a jerk while telling others they shouldn't be a jerk.

Also, quit fleeing from your rights because it might be uncomfortable for a while, jeez!

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danbus wrote:

Mordis wrote:

Abno, I would oc alot more, but truthfully im still very afriad to do so. Ya i know by doing so i may deter a crime or two, or become a target of one. I also may educate the public about responsible gun ownership. My concern is, say i do end up facing some ignorant cop, he arrests me, and my lawer ends up sucking hard and the charges stick. Guess what, Ill no longer be able to carry any firearm, shoot any firearm, or beable to enjoy any firearm for a very long time, possibly the rest of my life. I mean your asking me to possibly give up something i enjoy emmensly. Christ if something like that happens, neither my wife, nor my son when he turns 21 will be able to have a gun in the house as well.

I just have a hard time risking my favorite past time, if In ever makes it legal and spelled out in law sure ill do it. Technicaly its legal now, but its only defacto legal, and i may not get a firearms charge, but ill get a disturbing the peace charge and or creating a public nuasance or inciting public fear/panic.

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What state do you reside in?

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Mordis is from Ft. Wayne, Indiana.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum22/3037-1.html

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I think the problem stated by the OP is grossly exaggerated as most here have lauded the members who have had encountered with LE. Nearly everybody was support of Danbus in the Hampton and Norfolk incidents. To compare the Hampton/Norfolk incidents to the Suffolk event is a sadly flawed argument. The first two were LE initiated events, and Suffolk was not LE initiated. Two completely different conditions.

But we all know that. No need to rehash the obvious because those who agree with Danbus will continue to agree, and those who didn't will not be swayed.

The REAL issue is this: There is no issue. Most people have supported OC'er in the face of persecution. Thats it. But in this one instance were some forum members do not think that approaching a LEO while in the course of his official duties was wise, immediately those in favor look down in disdain. :banghead: Dissent among the collective is viewed as heresy, and reason and accountability are stomped out in order to advance the 2A cause.

I apologize Comrade AbNo. I don't think it was the prudent thing to do in the Suffolk event. Thats my opinion. OC and RKBA weren't being criticized, just the behavior.

Right is right, wrong is wrong, smart is smart, and unwise is unwise. Thats all.:monkey

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I'm not just talking about Dan, though his lastest escapade is what finally got me to put text to screen, so to speak, and that's why I am trying to stay near it.

And yes, I realize that a lot of people are NOT out shrieking everytime someone has anything other than a positive or neutral encounter.

I'm talking about people that go out of their way to berate the other people on this board, because the way someone handled a tense situation did not fall under the rules set by the complainer's Cracker-Jack box diploma.

Again, what I was saying was...

1. If you don't think someone did something the right way, it's pretty pointless to whine about it without at least giving a plausible idea of what to do.

2. Counter-act those "bad for OCer events" by doing something good, not pointing with your giant foam finger. If nothing else, it's getting you to do something to further the cause. Otherwise, you are just infighting.

3. If you're cowering in fear of your lost rights, just turn in your gun.

I'm not kidding. If you're not willing to train your RKBA on a trial basis (carrying), then why should anyone, including yourself, believe you would actually use it if truly needed?

4. Again, I'm sick of "You shouldn't have done that!"

Shut up. Get out of your chair, and go SHOW people how it should be done.