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CA - 911 call of man that shot and killed 2 people that were burglarizing the house next door

openryan

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Shotgun wrote:
The call was a good example of "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

Legally, he probably would have been better off to hang up after making the call rather than letting it all get recorded. I could see him getting prosecuted, but the DA ought to consider whether the greater good would be served by prosecuting this man and discouraging citizen action, or by keeping would-be burglars guessing whether the house they're breaking into might have somebody present or nearbywho is armed and willing to confront them.
FALSE -- the police arrived right when they were escaping, had the guy not shot them, they probably would have ran right into the police car.

This man KNEW Police were on the way, and close. He sounded like he had a very itchy trigger finger, even if it was legal.

If it is legal, and the police are coming, and I am not in IMMEDIATE danger, I will let the police handle it and keep my behind out of a courtroom or even a chance of being in one.

I don't think this guy would have handled teepee-er any differently, I think he just wanted to shoot somebody. He sounded genuinely concerned to me at first, but I played it again. There was almost no verbal warning before shots were fired.

I am willing to bet he shot the one, and the other immediately ran, but he shot him anyway "because they were stealing, and its wrong".

I do think he will at LEAST catch some heat for shooting someone who retreated.
 

MetalChris

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Is this really the correct forum for this story? I fail to see how this was self defense in any sense of the term...

The guy is going down, and rightfully so. Make the "sheeple" argument all you want guys, but he had no business going out his front door. Now if the thieves had kidnapped his neighbor or something like that, he'd have justification, but from what we all heard, he certainly shouldn't have left his home.
 

IanB

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USAF_MetalChris wrote:
Is this really the correct forum for this story? I fail to see how this was self defense in any sense of the term...

The guy is going down, and rightfully so. Make the "sheeple" argument all you want guys, but he had no business going out his front door. Now if the thieves had kidnapped his neighbor or something like that, he'd have justification, but from what we all heard, he certainly shouldn't have left his home.
Agreed. This guy is a tool, and he's going to the grey bar hotel.
 

imperialism2024

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DreQo wrote:
imperialism2024 wrote:
The story wrote:
One man was found dead about two houses from where the reported burglary occurred. The other was found dead across the street, Corbett said.
Damn, did the guy use an 8-gauge or something?

:shock:

Uhhh wouldn't an 8 gauge do MORE damage than a 12, seeing as how it is bigger??
Oh, I was making reference to perhaps how the shotgun impact was enough to blow the guys many feet from where they were standing when they were shot, even though that's not physically possible.

Anyhow, I can see either side... Given the details, it doesn't sound like an instance where I would shoot, but I can understand why someone might consider it.
 

CA_Libertarian

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http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=local&id=5538780 another article on this incident. The article pants a slightly different picture. Somehow the article linked in the OP is missing audio (1:45 in this article's audio) where Mr. Horn states that the burglars were armed with a crowbar (which they used to break in). The article also mentions 3 shots (as opposed to 2 in the OP article). Three shots are clearly audible on the recording.

I think Mr. Horn was well within his right to try to arrest these guys. Armed or not, I can believe these thieves might have thought they could take down a 70-yr-old man.

The thing that bothers me the most: almost 8 seconds between the 2nd & 3rd shot (shots 1 & 2 were fired within 1 second of each other). here may be witnesses to the third shot (neighbors getting to their windows after hearing the first 2 shots). I wonder what happened in that 8 seconds: was burglar #2 running away at a dead sprint with Mr Horn giving chase? Or maybe #2 was ducking behind a corner fumbling in his waste band for a weapon?

I know we don't yet have the details to answer this last question. Hopefully another neighbor or passerby heard the first two shots and looked outside to witness the encounter.
 

Lew

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cloudcroft wrote:
There should be no law against looking outfor your neighbors...their property included.

He's definitely my kind of "good neighbor."

-- John D.
I agree entirely.
 

HankT

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cloudcroft wrote:
1. Yes, in TX itIS legal to use deadly force to protect personal property...at night. That's the real way to deal with crime.

2.I hope the guy walks, or if he goes to trial, no TX jury will find him guilty.

3.There should be no law against looking outfor your neighbors...their property included.

4.He's definitely my kind of "good neighbor."

1. It wasn't at night. It was broad daylight.

2. I hope that justice is done.

3. There is, in fact, no law for looking out for a neighbor. Plenty of lawsagainst cold-blooded killing. Unfortunately, no laws against being stupid

4. Joe Horn is a stupid neighbor. And a stupid killer. And now he pays the price for his stupidity.I bet he is quite regretful. Now.
 

PT111

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I don't know what the outcome is going to be but two BG's are dead and a GG is in a heap of trouble. If he gets turned loose it will be by a jury after much time and expense because the DA is going to prosecute this case.
 

MetalChris

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Lew wrote:
cloudcroft wrote:
He's definitely my kind of "good neighbor."

-- John D.
I agree entirely.
So you guys would want trigger happy neighbors who will kill over a couple of possessions that would more than likely be covered by insurance? :shock:
 

HankT

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USAF_MetalChris wrote:
Lew wrote:
cloudcroft wrote:
He's definitely my kind of "good neighbor."

-- John D.
I agree entirely.
So you guys would want trigger happy neighbors who will kill over a couple of possessions that would more than likely be covered by insurance? :shock:

yessmiley.gif
yessmiley.gif
 

cloudcroft

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USAF_MetalChris,

Yeah...it's called "taking a bite out of crime." No, wait, I believe that's McGruff the Crime Dog's slogan. Yeah, HE sure is scary isn't he...some cartoon dog in a raincoat...and probably unarmed. Criminals fear The Dog.

Well, I'll take "shooter guy" as my neighbor over Hank T. and McGruff any day.

And Hank, KEEPING your property because the criminal doesn't get away with it helps to keep insurance rates DOWN, which isa public service to us all.

Frankly -- and contrary to ignorant but naive popluar public belief -- criminals lives aren't worth my or anyone else's property...property is worth more. That's how it's always been...you must have missed something being up there in the Air Force.

-- John D. (US Army, Armored Cav, Recon)
 

HankT

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cloudcroft wrote:
Yeah...it's called "taking a bite out of crime." No, wait, I believe that's McGruff the Crime Dog's slogan.

Well, I'll take the shooter as my neighbor over Hank T. and McGruff any day.

Frankly -- and contrary to ignorant but naive popluar public belief -- criminals lives aren't worth my or anyone else's property...property is worth more. That's how it's always been...you must have missed something being up there in the Air Force.


How much are the criminals' lives worth, John?

About 2/5 the property?

1/5?

What's your very best estimate?


:uhoh:
 

HankT

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cloudcroft wrote:
My best estimate is zero. Trash isn't worth anything to me.

-- John D.

That's obviously wrong.

At least the cost of a couple of of 12 gauge shells. ;)

C'mon. Your accountant will be p*ssed.

And don't forget the legal fees....the remortgaging costs.....etc.
 

MetalChris

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cloudcroft wrote:
My best estimate is zero. Trash isn't worth anything to me.

-- John D.
Dude, my SD shotgun rounds cost about $1.25 each...I wouldn't dream of using them on trash... :p
 

HankT

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USAF_MetalChris wrote:
cloudcroft wrote:
My best estimate is zero. Trash isn't worth anything to me.

-- John D.
Dude, my SD shotgun rounds cost about $1.25 each...I wouldn't dream of using them on trash... :p

Pops... it wouldn't be self defense..... :lol:
 

cloudcroft

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I reload so my 12-guage ammo costs next to nothing...expecially my "SD 69-caliber round musket ball" stuff.

Besides, it's a whole lot more cost-effective to short-circuit the sorry criminal "justice" system...LOTS of taxpayer money saved that way.

-- John D.
 

MetalChris

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HankT wrote:
USAF_MetalChris wrote:
cloudcroft wrote:
My best estimate is zero. Trash isn't worth anything to me.

-- John D.
Dude, my SD shotgun rounds cost about $1.25 each...I wouldn't dream of using them on trash... :p

Pops... it wouldn't be self defense..... :lol:
Right, but I'd still be using my SD ammo, because that's what I have in my shotgun...

:cool:
 

protector84

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The biggest mistake the neighbor made was calling the cops. Now they have everything recorded. I agree with Cloudcroft about trash. I am a non-violent person but that doesn't mean I am a doormat. I'd rather not kill any person or animal and don't like hunting unless it is necessary for survival. However, the more good citizens choose to tolerate the trash that pervades society, the higher the cost is to you, your friends, and loved ones, and the more the problem gets out of control.

I, for one, am getting increasingly tired of this "blind acceptance" of everyone regardless of whether they are quality people (those who have wisdom, values, intelligence, and decency) or social garbage (those who live their entire lives using and abusing others to get ahead). I am also sick and tired of this "give 'em a hug" mentality that we should keep trying to coddle and reform this garbage that clearly doesn't want to be reformed and many of which aren't capable of being reformed. Being non-violent doesn't mean I won't commit violence if necessary to protect the good from the bad but it means my mentality is about preserving peace which often does require violence to eradicate or control those who destroy peace.

Time and time again I have witnessed the police literally do nothing against criminals when there is plenty of evidence to put them behind bars yet at the same time they want to harrass the good citizens simply for interrupting their donut break.

This talk of property isn't worth someone's life is bullshit. I work hard for my money, I have a lot of bills to pay, and I have to put food on the table and keep a roof over my head. Food, shelter, and the utilities that I pay bills on are required to keep me alive. Yet McGruffy the dog or whatever the hell his name is would tell me to hand over my recently cashed check to a criminal rather than pulling out a 9mm handgun and painting the sidewalk with his brains. Same with someone trying to steal my car. I can't get to work or anywhere I need to go without it. There is a basic law of nature that public opinion ignores and that is you have a naturalright to protect your life and property. Go try to steal something from a dangerous wild animal and see what they do to you. Hint: The tiger won't give you a free cable TV subscription.

Maybe it sounds a bit archaic but a quality of a civilized society is when you have true warriors who are willing to take a bit of risk to protect the good from the wicked. Our modern day uncivilized society instead is full of ignorant helpless useless scared stupid paralized people who cannot do anything to make things right when faced with that choice whether or not they are firearms owners.

Maybe what the neighbor did was illegal but morality and law aren't always equal. The fact is that these two pieces of trash were robbing a citizen of his property, the man intervened and it sounds like he did give them a chance to stop but they chose to come toward him so he handled it the way that things used to be handled a long time ago.

There is something seriously wrong with a society that wants to constantly give wicked people unlimited chances to fix their behavior yet never once gives the good citizens a break in life.

Not to change topics but I still stand by my "don't call the police" opinion after using force. The law enforcement in my state, county, and city are full of criminals themselves. Cops getting arrested for rape, child mollestation, violent crimes, domestic violence, drug trafficking, theft, and other forms of corruption. Most of the time they are commiting these crimes with the help of their badge.The police are not a respectable organization nor should they be trusted to be on the side of justice. Maybe some of them care about doing the right thing. If they do, then they will turn in their badges and get a different job. You cannot be a cop and not be corrupt considering the type of laws they enforce.

As said before, if you are being attacked on the street and have to shoot someone in self-defense, you have a 5th Amendment right to keep your mouth shut which also means that legally you do not have to call the police. I really don't care if the crook is lying there bleeding to death. Good for him! That's what he deserves. What about all the senior citizens he's mugged, families he's robbed, and women he's raped? It is not my responsibility to ensure that he gets saved so that he can get a couple of pills and then get released back in society so he can do it again. For those who think my "rules" are twisted or warped, realize we live in a twisted society. Look at the way the cops are constantly involved in questionable shootings, putting people away for years over something like marijuana, and allowing crazies and criminals to continue to pervade the streets. We have a President who cannot even speak English, millions of aliensinvading this country, you name it. But let's remain stupid helpless citizens who are afraid to do the right thing because we might get on the bad side of the corrupt cops or let's instead call the corrupt cops so we can at least look good to the corrupt leaders in this corrupt nation.
 
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