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  1. #1
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    I have been reading post now for several months. You guys can say whatever you want as far as defending your rights;however all I can see you doing is pointing out how wrong everyone else is. ALL of us on this site are on the same side-ALL we do is bicker back and forth about the same stuff!!!! We are not helping the general public by doing this if anything we helping them. When they see us arguing amongst ourselves they say even they cant agree so we must be right.How can we change or educate them when we dont agree.DONT be foolish enough to think people dont monitor this site because I know for fact they do!!All the arguing can only be taken as hostile and does the public person want a hostile person caaying a loaded weapon-NO you are helping them win the fight

  2. #2
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    Are you related to APjonas?

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    I've found that bickering back and forth is the nature of any Internet forum. Luckily this site has a good group of moderators; they ride the line between disruption and facilitation very well. I'm terribly sorry to hear that your voice will no longer be heard on this site. I see from your post history that you have raised some very valuable points.

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    We do argue rather often here. :?

    I have no personal desire to do this but I find a great deal of what I post to be picked apart. There are even members that want to start problems for their own personal reasons and blow things way out of proportion.


    I amviewed by many as the enemy and treated as such. These are the same people that think the LEO should treat armed people like any other member of society. Practice what you preach.

    This forum is monitored by the anti groups. I can guarantee it. When a member spits in the face of reasoning... it is viewed as thementality of the entire group.

    I have had many other members contact me at tell me they are dumping this board for the same reasons as wikie.

  5. #5
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    It is a good thing we gather in this online forum. After all, if we were to gather at the local library or Holiday Inn, the sweet smell of smokeless powder would hang heavy in the air and blood would be running into the street!

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    We do argue rather often here. :?

    I have no personal desire to do this but I find a great deal of what I post to be picked apart. There are even members that want to start problems for their own personal reasons and blow things way out of proportion.


    I am the viewed by many as the enemy and treated as such. These are the same people that think the LEO should treat armed people like any other member of society. Practice what you preach.

    This forum is monitored by the anti groups. I can guarantee it. When a member spits in the face of reasoning... it is viewed as thementality of the entire group.

    I have had many other members contact me at tell me they are dumping this board for the same reasons as wikie.
    Showing patience, courtesy and consideration for the other person costs no one anything; however, lack of consideration, cheap shots and personal attacks are a blight on what should be a positive experience. It is a lot like the old saw - "airing your dirty laundry in public."

    I've said it before so I'll say it again, "Either we pull together or we pull apart."

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  7. #7
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    lockman wrote:
    It is a good thing we gather in this online forum. After all, if we were to gather at the local library or Holiday Inn, the sweet smell of smokeless powder would hang heavy in the air and blood would be running into the street!
    I would have been shot long ago...

    But honestly.... I have been to a few gatherings.. We disagree on things but there is no flaming. Each person was treated with absolute respect. We honored each others opinion and could see from the persons expressions if they were joking or very serious.

    On here... you have people that do not take anything into consideration. They turn on the flames because they know nothing will happen to them and you cannot touch them. They get a little brave on the Internet. This is extremely common.

    I guess that since everyone is armed when meeting in person.. you do not go out of your way to flame someone for fear they will throw some lead your way.



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    LEO you are one hundred percent correct.Its like driving in your car when someone cuts you off you flip them the finger. No fear of whats going to happen cause your in your car and no one can touch you. It appears the internet is the same way. I hope LEO will continue to be the voice of reason even I quit.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Hate to lose ya, I hope you change your mind. The forum is what we make of it, when it started everyone mostly knew each other and we acted accordingly. I'm hoping people will start to realize that they may meet the person they are flaming someday and not fall into the GIDT.

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    longwatch wrote:
    Hate to lose ya, I hope you change your mind. The forum is what we make of it, when it started everyone mostly knew each other and we acted accordingly. I'm hoping people will start to realize that they may meet the person they are flaming someday and not fall into the GIDT.
    What is GIDT? I think too much of what is said here is taken personally, and that what one person may say relfects a disagreement with the other persons opinion, or stance on a view they may have that is not shared.

    I think we are all proponents of 2A rights, and I don't think there is much disagreement on that...

    I think a lot of disagreement comes into play when we discuss certain scenarios, or other topics that don't necessarily pertain to open carry, or even a mode of carry, or gun rights at all.

    Overall, I think we are all FOR less restrictions on firearms and ownership. If people become a bit passionate on the issues inbetween thats good. When it crosses the line into personal attacks (not disagreements in opinion) thats wrong.



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    As one of the biggest culprits in picking fights, I have to say I agree. Bickering gets us nowhere...but it's true that internet forums by nature usually involve alotta bickering.

    I also agree that confrontation is a counter-productive style. While I will stand firm when approached by a LEO, I will be polite as I've always been. And while I support Dan's right to go up to LEO's to get status reports and such, I'm beginning to agree with those that say it's counterproductive to the movement as a whole.

  12. #12
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Wilkie,
    Stay if you will and contribute. I concur that some other sites are perhaps more polite but you will also have to admit that, at least to date, few others have had so much influence and impact. If we can but harness the energy expended here, we will prevail.

    At least on this thread, we are beginning to actually sound like brothers!

    Yata hey
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    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  13. #13
    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Well, I never knew you were here so I guess I won't miss ya.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    All I have to say about this whole topic is: I blame HankT... he friggin starts it damn near every time.

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    Wilkie,

    Why not stay a bit and be a voice for calm and reason?

    (I can use the help. )
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  16. #16
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    I have no personal desire to do this but I find a great deal of what I post to be picked apart. There are even members that want to start problems for their own personal reasons and blow things way out of proportion.


    I amviewed by many as the enemy and treated as such. These are the same people that think the LEO should treat armed people like any other member of society. Practice what you preach.
    I also think you get personal attacks made upon you. But the moderators usually let that go, for some reason....




    LEO 229 wrote:
    This forum is monitored by the anti groups. I can guarantee it. When a member spits in the face of reasoning... it is viewed as thementality of the entire group.
    I don't really know if that's true. But if it is, it's really bad. Some of the attitudes about shooting people and what some folks say they:

    a) have done, or

    b) will do

    in certain situation is quite out there sometimes. People say the darndest bubba things...

    Sometimes, I suspect, it's just talk. Sometimes, it's for real. Scary. For example the abominable knee-jerkcop-bashingcomments from some in thread on the Philly cop who got shot in the head and waskilled instantly in the Dunkin' Donuts were not OCDO's best shining moment.

    The more that reasoned voices that can be heard to balance the bubbas, the better it isfor the reputation of pro-2Aers and daily gun carriers such as myself. Especially, as you say, the anti groups (and LE?) are scanning the forum.

    And bad behavior on the part of some less-than-disiplined OCers, as well as the gushingonline praise here for such, don't really reflectfavorably on OCDO or the gun-owning/carrying communities. It feels good,I'm sure. And it is politically correct. But it looks really silly to outsiders. In the long run, it will produce negative results.

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    OCDO has some of the most polite and respectful people I've encountered on the internet. It also has the most hyper-sensitive. I get a laugh when people get so offended. You can argue with someone and not take it personally. I tend not to take anything on the internet seriously.

    Further, I think ya'll make the gravity of our appearance to anti spies out to be more than it is. If antis are cruising this site, why are they doing it? I imagine for kicks, mostly, and maybe to keep up on actions being taken. You think little squabbles on a forum really matter? What we're doing on the streets and in the courts matter. This is the internetz...

  18. #18
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    Lew wrote:
    OCDO has some of the most polite and respectful people I've encountered on the internet. It also has the most hyper-sensitive. I get a laugh when people get so offended. You can argue with someone and not take it personally. I tend not to take anything on the internet seriously.

    Further, I think ya'll make the gravity of our appearance to anti spies out to be more than it is. If antis are cruising this site, why are they doing it? I imagine for kicks, mostly, and maybe to keep up on actions being taken. You think little squabbles on a forum really matter? What we're doing on the streets and in the courts matter. This is the internetz...
    I suspect they are doing it just like the pro gunners are going to the MMM meetings and video taping them.

    Both sides want to know what the other is talking about.



  19. #19
    Regular Member USMC91E6's Avatar
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    VAopencarry wrote:
    Well, I never knew you were here so I guess I won't miss ya.
    Don't think that way becausetheir are alot of poeple that we never knew but, if the miss, we would be missed by our family. (SNIPERSand other MARINES that had our backs since 1775. happy 232rdbithday)OIF 05-06

  20. #20
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    I suspect they are doing it just like the pro gunners are going to the MMM meetings and video taping them.
    You mean they're barging in here and scooping up all the secret OCforum information????

    Well, I never!

    If the antis/MMMers/Bradyites are here I wish they'd jump into the conversation once in a while. I think it would be very interesting to have a debate/argument/discussion/conversation about some issues that concern us mutually. It would be good.

    Of course, if the antis/MMMers register and post then we can track their accesses to this site and the linked sites, like vaguninfo.com. Nakedshoplifter could then post his referral log info and we could all do with it....well, you know, find out where they live and stuff.



  21. #21
    Regular Member USMC91E6's Avatar
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    USMC91E6 wrote:
    VAopencarry wrote:
    Well, I never knew you were here so I guess I won't miss ya.
    Don't think that way becausetheir are alot of poeple that we never knew but, if the miss, we would be missed by our family. (SNIPERSand other MARINES that had our backs since 1775. happy 232rdbithday)OIF 05-06
    VA born and bread. Stationed at Camp Lejeune.

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    USMC91E6 wrote:
    VAopencarry wrote:
    Well, I never knew you were here so I guess I won't miss ya.
    Don't think that way becausetheir are alot of poeple that we never knew but, if the miss, we would be missed by our family. (SNIPERSand other MARINES that had our backs since 1775. happy 232rdbithday)OIF 05-06
    Thank you for your service and welcome to OCDO!

    Indeed, unseen friends are still friendlies and unseen enemies are the worst kind.
    To those that fit either category, you will be known by your words and deeds. Hoorah!
    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I have been reading post now for several months. You guys can say whatever you want as far as defending your rights;however all I can see you doing is pointing out how wrong everyone else is. ALL of us on this site are on the same side-ALL we do is bicker back and forth about the same stuff!!!! We are not helping the general public by doing this if anything we helping them. When they see us arguing amongst ourselves they say even they cant agree so we must be right.How can we change or educate them when we dont agree.DONT be foolish enough to think people dont monitor this site because I know for fact they do!!All the arguing can only be taken as hostile and does the public person want a hostile person caaying a loaded weapon-NO you are helping them win the fight
    I understand and as a matter of fact, expressed my concerns to other members that we were driving people away.

    Leo 229 has a lot to offer and doesn't start sounding like a nut until he's pushed beyond any reasonable limit

    I said once that if GUN OWNERS as a group could get along, we could rule the General Assembly.....but unfortunately, we can't. None of us are that flexible!

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    peter nap wrote:
    I said once that if GUN OWNERS as a group could get along, we could rule the General Assembly.....but unfortunately, we can't. None of us are that flexible!
    Why unity is important

    Note to self: stop fighting with your friends

  25. #25
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    What do you use for 'principle'? I use, "that which will not be compromised." That said, one must carefully differentiate between 'principle' and 'precept.'

    It's kind'a like 'spine', what do you use for spine? Remember the terms 'ramrod' and '2x4'? Not very flexible are they but we honor those with spine - like the USMC. Hoo rah!

    Compromise is failure on the installment plan.

    Either we are equal or we are not. Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. LAB/NRA/GOP *******



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