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Thread: Visiting MO, thinking about Open Carry

  1. #1
    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    .....
    Last edited by Ian; 07-26-2011 at 10:37 AM.

  2. #2
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    State preemption exists for concealed, but locales can make up ordinances for OPEN CARRY.

    I could not find an ordinance against it, however that certainly does not mean one doesn't exist... I would call an attorney before going. I do not think notifying the police is necessary, print up the law before hand (if it is legal) and carry that with you.

    Here is the KC website, you can search through all the ordinances here, at least the ones they put on line and are up to date...

    Wish I could help more...

    OC is a unique experience, I hope you get to try!

    I do however hope you get some sound legal advice before trying it, I strongly suggest contacting an attorney in KC, or studying all the firearms related clauses.

    http://www.kcmo.org/kcmo.nsf/web/home?opendocument

    (Left hand bar, almost all the way down, click on ordinances)


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    Kansas City and St Joe are both very anti-gun. If you have a barrel full of $100.00 bills for you defense in court go ahead and try open carry. I guarantee you that you will get the attention of the police departments very quickly.

  4. #4
    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    Okay here's the closest thing I could find for open carry (or rather the lack of mentioning it)


    Kansas City Code:


    Sec. 50-261. Unlawful use of weapons--generally.


    (a)A person commits the ordinance violation of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

    (1)Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use



    St. Joseph Code:

    Sec. 20-163. Carrying concealed weapons; prohibited in city buildings, other posted locations.



    (a) No person, unless authorized by law, shall, in the city, wear under his or her clothes or otherwise conceal on or about his or her person, or conceal in any vehicle he or she is operating, or in which he or she is a passenger, any blackjack; billy; bowie knife; cross knuckles; dagger; dirk; firearm; knife resembling a bowie knife; knuckles of lead, brass or other metal; razor; sandbag; slingshot; or any other dangerous or deadly weapon, except as authorized by Section 571.094 RSMo.




    I'm guessing that means that this doesn't apply to open carry since it clearly only mentions concealed carry?

    I'll still ask an attourney, but this is what I'm gathering from the city ordinances.


    Oh and this means that I cannot open carry onto any property owned by the city correct?

    Sec. 20-163.

    (b) No person who has been issued a concealed carry endorsement by the Missouri Department of Revenue under Section 571.094 RSMo, or who has been issued a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state, shall, by authority of that endorsement or permit, be allowed to carry that firearm either concealed or in plain view onto any property or portion of that property owned, leased or controlled by the City of St. Joseph, Missouri. The following provisions shall also apply:
    Last edited by Ian; 07-26-2011 at 10:38 AM.

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    I've always heard St. Joe was ok for OC but they are nervous up there and will respond if someone calls it in. You might try to call Total Range in St. Joe (ask 4 Bill, he should know) at: (816) 364-3206

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    Ianmtx wrote:
    Okay here's the closest thing I could find for open carry (or rather the lack of mentioning it)


    Kansas City Code:


    Sec. 50-261. Unlawful use of weapons--generally.


    (a)A person commits the ordinance violation of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

    (1)Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use



    St. Joseph Code:

    Sec. 20-163. Carrying concealed weapons; prohibited in city buildings, other posted locations.



    (a) No person, unless authorized by law, shall, in the city, wear under his or her clothes or otherwise conceal on or about his or her person, or conceal in any vehicle he or she is operating, or in which he or she is a passenger, any blackjack; billy; bowie knife; cross knuckles; dagger; dirk; firearm; knife resembling a bowie knife; knuckles of lead, brass or other metal; razor; sandbag; slingshot; or any other dangerous or deadly weapon, except as authorized by Section 571.094 RSMo.




    I'm guessing that means that this doesn't apply to open carry since it clearly only mentions concealed carry?

    I'll still ask an attourney, but this is what I'm gathering from the city ordinances.


    Oh and this means that I cannot open carry onto any property owned by the city correct?

    Sec. 20-163.

    (b) No person who has been issued a concealed carry endorsement by the Missouri Department of Revenue under Section 571.094 RSMo, or who has been issued a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state, shall, by authority of that endorsement or permit, be allowed to carry that firearm either concealed or in plain view onto any property or portion of that property owned, leased or controlled by the City of St. Joseph, Missouri. The following provisions shall also apply:
    If that is all that references it in KC, you should be OK, however when I searched before I saw that there was a code in KC that went sometime to the tune of .... If someone exhibited a weapon in a threatening manner...blah blah blah.

    OC in and of itself should be threatening to nobody, however some people do freak out, not many, but some will totally flip. Also, you have to know how the cops are going to see it...they may use this and twist it against you.

    I'd still call the attorney, let us know what he said. And as said above, a few of the local gun shops might be helpful to you as well.

    But as for what I have seen so far, I haven't seen anything that explicity said OC was illegal in KC, only clauses that related to brandishing. But of course you can search these boards and find instances when OC was considered brandishing to give people a hard time.



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    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    Well, it's possible that an over zealous cop would arrest you for brandishing a weapon, but I seriously doubt that a DA would touch that case if you weren't doing anything illegal and just going about your business.

    Still, I think your demeanor and actions if/when you interact with law enforcement will most likely determine your fate. As long as you're courteous, and make sure that they know that you know your rights without sounding like a smartass or like you think they're an idiot, you should be okay.

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    Ianmtx wrote:
    Well, it's possible that an over zealous cop would arrest you for brandishing a weapon, but I seriously doubt that a DA would touch that case if you weren't doing anything illegal and just going about your business.

    Still, I think your demeanor and actions if/when you interact with law enforcement will most likely determine your fate. As long as you're courteous, and make sure that they know that you know your rights without sounding like a smartass or like you think they're an idiot, you should be okay.
    A DA might not touch it, and it could be defended against in most cases.

    However, you could end up sitting in jail for something stupid, on their part. A lot of cops can be over zealous, and some very decent, it depends on who you deal with, just like any other profession.

    If your carry yourself professionally, and act decent with them, show ID, etc... you should be able to talk your way out of most conflicts.

    I support your right to OC, and I hope you do, it is a unique experience, however I don't want to hear you came back from a 7 day va-ca with 1 of them spent in the slammer because of some idiot cop! Know the laws, and ordinance before you go (print them up possibly), and you will be good.

    By the way, what are you going to be packing, and what type of holster?

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Ianmtx wrote:

    Sec. 20-163.


    (b) No person who has been issued a concealed carry endorsement by the Missouri Department of Revenue under Section 571.094 RSMo, or who has been issued a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state, shall, by authority of that endorsement or permit, be allowed to carry that firearm either concealed or in plain view onto any property or portion of that property owned, leased or controlled by the City of St. Joseph, Missouri. The following provisions shall also apply:
    So if you have a permit you cant carry at all, but if you don't have a permit you can OC in public buildings? Am I missing something?

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    Deleted duplicate post.

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    lockman wrote:
    Ianmtx wrote:

    Sec. 20-163.


    (b) No person who has been issued a concealed carry endorsement by the Missouri Department of Revenue under Section 571.094 RSMo, or who has been issued a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state, shall, by authority of that endorsement or permit, be allowed to carry that firearm either concealed or in plain view onto any property or portion of that property owned, leased or controlled by the City of St. Joseph, Missouri. The following provisions shall also apply:
    So if you have a permit you cant carry at all, but if you don't have a permit you can OC in public buildings? Am I missing something?
    I was thinking the same thing, unless this was taken out of context...


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    Folks, it is not uncommon for localities to have preempted ordiances on the books - Mo is apparently no exception. State preemption in MO applies to permit holder carrying conceealed.

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    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    openryan wrote:
    Ianmtx wrote:
    Well, it's possible that an over zealous cop would arrest you for brandishing a weapon, but I seriously doubt that a DA would touch that case if you weren't doing anything illegal and just going about your business.

    Still, I think your demeanor and actions if/when you interact with law enforcement will most likely determine your fate. As long as you're courteous, and make sure that they know that you know your rights without sounding like a smartass or like you think they're an idiot, you should be okay.
    A DA might not touch it, and it could be defended against in most cases.

    However, you could end up sitting in jail for something stupid, on their part. A lot of cops can be over zealous, and some very decent, it depends on who you deal with, just like any other profession.

    If your carry yourself professionally, and act decent with them, show ID, etc... you should be able to talk your way out of most conflicts.

    I support your right to OC, and I hope you do, it is a unique experience, however I don't want to hear you came back from a 7 day va-ca with 1 of them spent in the slammer because of some idiot cop! Know the laws, and ordinance before you go (print them up possibly), and you will be good.

    By the way, what are you going to be packing, and what type of holster?
    I was probably going to gowiththe .45 ACP 1911 in a serpa.

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    Ianmtx wrote:
    openryan wrote:
    Ianmtx wrote:
    Well, it's possible that an over zealous cop would arrest you for brandishing a weapon, but I seriously doubt that a DA would touch that case if you weren't doing anything illegal and just going about your business.

    Still, I think your demeanor and actions if/when you interact with law enforcement will most likely determine your fate. As long as you're courteous, and make sure that they know that you know your rights without sounding like a smartass or like you think they're an idiot, you should be okay.
    A DA might not touch it, and it could be defended against in most cases.

    However, you could end up sitting in jail for something stupid, on their part. A lot of cops can be over zealous, and some very decent, it depends on who you deal with, just like any other profession.

    If your carry yourself professionally, and act decent with them, show ID, etc... you should be able to talk your way out of most conflicts.

    I support your right to OC, and I hope you do, it is a unique experience, however I don't want to hear you came back from a 7 day va-ca with 1 of them spent in the slammer because of some idiot cop! Know the laws, and ordinance before you go (print them up possibly), and you will be good.

    By the way, what are you going to be packing, and what type of holster?
    I was probably going to gowiththe .45 ACP 1911 in a serpa.
    Always a nice choice!

  15. #15
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    Things are a little goofy here in the great state of Missouri.

    If you have a concealed carry permit, you are good to go anywhere it is legal to do so. (No federal buildings, airports, or venues with more than 5000 people in attendance, etc.)

    Key word being "concealed".

    Open carrying is a crapshoot. Missouri does NOT have complete firearms preemption. This means local governments can pass laws not addressed by State law. State law only covers "concealed" weapons. So many counties have vague "feelings" about open carry. Some will be O.K., some will only seize your weapon, and some will arrest you for "brandishing" (even though it's in a holster).

    I've heard rumors of weapons being seized in St. Louis county. You can hire an attorney and file a motion to get it back, but........$1000 dollars in fees and "storage costs" or a new gun. You choose.

    As for me.......better safe than sorry. I'm legally allowed to carry concealed.....so I choose to carry concealed. This makes the guesswork of what the local ordinance is in what area I might currently be in a moot point.

    But, as I always recommend, never take anyone's advice on the law........including mine. So always get a bona-fide definitionfrom someone who is qualified to make a determination on what the law is.Because the only person who will suffer the consequences of being wrong is YOU.

  16. #16
    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    lockman wrote:
    Ianmtx wrote:


    Sec. 20-163.



    (b) No person who has been issued a concealed carry endorsement by the Missouri Department of Revenue under Section 571.094 RSMo, or who has been issued a valid permit or endorsement to carry concealed firearms issued by another state or political subdivision of another state, shall, by authority of that endorsement or permit, be allowed to carry that firearm either concealed or in plain view onto any property or portion of that property owned, leased or controlled by the City of St. Joseph, Missouri. The following provisions shall also apply:
    So if you have a permit you cant carry at all, but if you don't have a permit you can OC in public buildings? Am I missing something?
    Good point!

  17. #17
    Regular Member Superlite27's Avatar
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    No.

    If you do NOT have a Missouri CCW, or one from another state recognized by the state of Missouri, you cannot carry at all.

    If you have a CCW recognized by Missouri, you can carry CONCEALED anywhere but the following:

    1) Bars - unless 51% of their revenue comes from food sales, then it is considered a restaraunt. Applebees = OK........Jim's Tap = Not OK.

    2) Airports

    3) Government Buildings - No post offices, courthouses, police stations, etc.

    4) Venues seating more than 5000. Wedding reception = OK.......St. Louis Rams game = Not OK (Of course, whether the Rams can draw 5000 people this year is questionable)

    You will be running a gamut of vague and obscure city ordinances if you OPEN CARRY anywhere in the state of Missouri.

    You will be OK to open carry inSOME more rural counties. YOU GUESS WHICH ONES.

    If you should happen to choose to OPEN CARRY in St. Louis city or the surrounding suburbs, you might be OK, or you might be tackled, frisked, carted off to jail, and BURNED AT THE STAKE.

    Or, you could just carry CONCEALED and avoid the guesswork. Your choice.



  18. #18
    Lone Star Veteran Ian's Avatar
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    Where do you see that you cant carry at all in MO without a CCW. The point here is that I want to open carry for the experience because its not allowed down here in Texas.

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    I know this is an old post, but here's my 2 cents.

    Open carry in not allowed in the city of North Kansas City. The list I'm aware of is:

    St. Louis

    Cape Girardeau

    Grandview

    NKC

    Belton

    Aurora

    Looking through the weapon related stuff for St. Joe and KC I see nothing.


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