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Thread: "A Suspending order has been entered in your case"

  1. #1
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    They are requesting supplementary information, Voter information, vehicle registration to be submitted (over 40 days after I applied mind you).

    Should I mail in photocopies of the proof of residency (i guess it is to difficult to check my tax records).

    Or would it be better to file a ore tenus hearing? I just desire my CCW and want it the quickest way possible and am extremely annoyed about this.

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    i had the same thing happen. i just went to the courthouse and submitted the info that they needed. no fuss,no muss. it is painless.

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    fizzer wrote:
    i had the same thing happen. i just went to the courthouse and submitted the info that they needed. no fuss,no muss. it is painless.
    well that is good. i was all excited when i saw the paper from the court house, then i started reading at got all

    how long did it postpone you getting your permit?

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    Do remember that you're not required to give your SSN.

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    Maybe if you could give us more information.

    I would not schedule any hearings, yet.

    Either you supplied all the statutorily required information or you didn't.

    Either you are qualified to have a CHP or you're not.

    Give us the full details and maybe we can help.

    What paperwork, exactly, did you submit with your application?

    I don't recall "a suspending order" being one of the statutorily authorized options for the locality.If I recall, after the 45 days, they either have to refuse the application, or you get to use your application as a temporary permit. There may be some validation marking required from the Clerk of the Court for it to act as your temporary permit. Its covered under VA Code 18.2-308, I think. I'll look it up meanwhile.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  6. #6
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    from my own personal experience going thru ffx co. a suspending order only means your application has been put on hold until you either 1) give them the requested info or 2) the time period to submit additionalinfoexpires, it is either 30 or 45 days, after that you have to start over or 3) you ask for a ore tenus hearing.



    it took app 3 more weeks to receive my chp. i will say that the woman who worked the counter at the civil intake division of the courthouse was very nice and helpful.

  7. #7
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    fizzer wrote:
    from my own personal experience going thru ffx co. a suspending order only means your application has been put on hold until you either 1) give them the requested info or 2) the time period to submit additionalinfoexpires, it is either 30 or 45 days, after that you have to start over or 3) you ask for a ore tenus hearing.
    A suspending order is not one of their options. They may only grant or deny the application.

    However, if you didn't submit all the information lawfully required, then in a sense, you haven't yet really applied. In which case, their telling you could be construed to be doing you a favor.

    Here is the link to 18.2-308D. Just scroll a ways down the page until you get to "D".

    http://tinyurl.com/5uwnq

    I've highlited some things that might be applicable in the text below. VA Code 18.2-308(D):

    D. Any person 21 years of age or older may apply in writing to the clerk of the circuit court of the county or city in which he resides, or if he is a member of the United States Armed Forces, the county or city in which he is domiciled, for a five-year permit to carry a concealed handgun. There shall be no requirement regarding the length of time an applicant has been a resident or domiciliary of the county or city. The application shall be made under oath before a notary or other person qualified to take oaths and shall be made only on a form prescribed by the Department of State Police, in consultation with the Supreme Court, requiring only that information necessary to determine eligibility for the permit. The clerk shall enter on the application the date on which the application and all other information required to be submitted by the applicant is received. The court shall consult with either the sheriff or police department of the county or city and receive a report from the Central Criminal Records Exchange. As a condition for issuance of a concealed handgun permit, the applicant shall submit to fingerprinting if required by local ordinance in the county or city where the applicant resides and provide personal descriptive information to be forwarded with the fingerprints through the Central Criminal Records Exchange to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for the purpose of obtaining criminal history record information regarding the applicant, and obtaining fingerprint identification information from federal records pursuant to criminal investigations by state and local law-enforcement agencies. However, no local ordinance shall require an applicant to submit to fingerprinting if the applicant has an existing concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to this section and is applying for a new five-year permit pursuant to subsection I. Where feasible and practical, the local law-enforcement agency may transfer information electronically to the State Police instead of inked fingerprint cards. Upon completion of the criminal history records check, the State Police shall return the fingerprint cards to the submitting local agency or, in the case of scanned fingerprints, destroy the electronic record. The local agency shall then promptly notify the person that he has 21 days from the date of the notice to request return of the fingerprint cards, if any. All fingerprint cards not claimed by the applicant within 21 days of notification by the local agency shall be destroyed. All optically scanned fingerprints shall be destroyed upon completion of the criminal history records check without requiring that the applicant be notified. Fingerprints taken for the purposes described in this section shall not be copied, held or used for any other purposes. The court shall issue the permit and notify the State Police of the issuance of the permit within 45 days of receipt of the completed application unless it is determined that the applicant is disqualified. Any order denying issuance of the permit shall state the basis for the denial of the permit and the applicant's right to and the requirements for perfecting an appeal of such order pursuant to subsection L. An application is deemed complete when all information required to be furnished by the applicant is delivered to and received by the clerk of court before or concomitant with the conduct of a state or national criminal history records check. If the court has not issued the permit or determined that the applicant is disqualified within 45 days of the date of receipt noted on the application, the clerk shall certify on the application that the 45-day period has expired, and send a copy of the certified application to the applicant. The certified application shall serve as a de facto permit, which shall expire 90 days after issuance, and shall be recognized as a valid concealed handgun permit when presented with a valid government-issued photo identification pursuant to subsection H, until the court issues a five-year permit or finds the applicant to be disqualified. If the applicant is found to be disqualified after the de facto permit is issued, the applicant shall surrender the de facto permit to the court and the disqualification shall be deemed a denial of the permit and a revocation of the de facto permit. If the applicant is later found by the court to be disqualified after a permit has been issued, the five-year permit shall be revoked.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  8. #8
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    Ill second that, I applied for my CCW in Alexandria a month after I moved to VA.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Maybe if you could give us more information.

    I would not schedule any hearings, yet.

    Either you supplied all the statutorily required information or you didn't.

    Either you are qualified to have a CHP or you're not.

    Give us the full details and maybe we can help.

    What paperwork, exactly, did you submit with your application?

    I don't recall "a suspending order" being one of the statutorily authorized options for the locality.If I recall, after the 45 days, they either have to refuse the application, or you get to use your application as a temporary permit. There may be some validation marking required from the Clerk of the Court for it to act as your temporary permit. Its covered under VA Code 18.2-308, I think. I'll look it up meanwhile.
    Citizen,

    Below are the documents which I recieved (sans the ore hearing paper).

    (First page of the letter I received)
    http://filebox.vt.edu/users/hsmith/o...CCW-Page-1.jpg

    (Second page of the letter I received)
    http://filebox.vt.edu/users/hsmith/o...CCW-Page-2.jpg

    I filed SP-248, along with my background of residences (moved a lot in college) at the Fairfax Courthouse. I will have to dig up the paperwork as I filed my copies away, but I am 100% positive I filed all necessary "residence" information due to the fact I had to have it for other background checks.

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    fizzer wrote:
    from my own personal experience going thru ffx co. a suspending order only means your application has been put on hold until you either 1) give them the requested info or 2) the time period to submit additionalinfoexpires, it is either 30 or 45 days, after that you have to start over or 3) you ask for a ore tenus hearing.



    it took app 3 more weeks to receive my chp. i will say that the woman who worked the counter at the civil intake division of the courthouse was very nice and helpful.
    I agree, she was a pleasure when I filed my paperwork.



  11. #11
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    OK. I've read them. It seems the suspension order suspends the denial of your application, giving you a chance to supply the requested information. As opposed to suspending your application and/or its process.

    First, I'd just first dig up the info. and see what you provided.

    I talked to Carol Snow, the deputy clerk who signed the second document, a few weeks ago. They're swamped with applications. Ffx Co. processed some 1600 applications last year, they're at 1900 already this year. So, I can imagine they might be running a little behind.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  12. #12
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    hsmith wrote:
    I filed SP-248, along with my background of residences (moved a lot in college) at the Fairfax Courthouse. I will have to dig up the paperwork as I filed my copies away, but I am 100% positive I filed all necessary "residence" information due to the fact I had to have it for other background checks.
    Please note that the requested information is not your residence history but proof of residence, meaning currently.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  13. #13
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    Just bring them a copy of your lease or a power / phone bill with your name and address on it. Looks like that's all they need to reopen the application.

    Strange that they let you submit your application without the necessary documentation though. The lady in Alexandria went over my paperwork fairly throughly before I submitted it.

  14. #14
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    I've glanced through VA State Police form SP-248, the CHP application. I can't see where it requires you to submit proof of current residency. Neither can I find it required in the 18.2-308, linked above.

    I wonder if this is the problem Mike, SuperModerator, was talking about. I don't quite recognize it as such. The suspension order and the information requested is throwing me.

    It was my understanding that a judge in Ffx Co. was at some pointrequiring proof of residency in Fairfax County so the Court could see that it had jurisdiction.The information requested in your second form is proof of VA residency. Mike foughthis and won, which I understood to be a question of Ffx Co. residency, when he scheduled and arrived for an Ore Tenus hearing. If I recall, the judge folded his hand when he saw Mike's personally hired court reporter setting up his equipment.

    You might PM SuperModerator Mike and call his attention to this thread.

    As an interesting note, I did see where 18.2-308(D?) says the application form is to be established by the State Police in consultation with the VA Supreme Court. I guess the judge in Fairfax County figures he knows more than the Supreme Court since he requires something the Supreme Court seemingly didn't feel was necessary--proof of residency.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  15. #15
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    COMPLETE AND NOTARIZED APPLICATIONS FOR RESIDENT PERMITS SHALL BE FORWARDED TO THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE COUNTY OR CITY IN WHICH THE APPLICANT RESIDES
    . THE APPLICANT SHOULD CONSULT WITH THE COURT AUTHORITIES FOR INSTRUCTION AND GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO THEIR APPLICATION.






    i believe this is the section you are looking for, it is from the ffx section for chp.













    First Time Application:






    In addition to the completed application, you must provide the clerk with:






      1. • Two additional copies of the original completed application.











  16. • A self-addressed stamped envelope.








  17. • Three copies of your certificate of competence with a handgun (see p.5).








  18. • Three copies of documentation to verify residence in Fairfax County



CONCEALED HANDGUN


APPLICANTS


TO: ALL APPLICANTS


FROM: FAIRFAX COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT


CONCEALED WEAPONS UNIT


RE: VERIFICATION OF RESIDENCE IN FAIRFAX COUNTY


As part of the Concealed Handgun Application investigation process the Fairfax County Police Department
must verify your residence in the County of Fairfax . By attaching one of the appropriate documents listed below to your completed application, this will expedite the investigation process.





i believe my work is done here.


a) the state leaves it up to the individual juristictions on what the residency requirement is.

b) ffx co. requires proof of CURRENT county residency.








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  • #16
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    I can't tell whether this application has been denied or suspended - I ask the poster to please PM me so we can talk on the phone. the law does not contemplate a denial for not showing proof of residency, period.

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    fizzer wrote:

    i believe my work is done here.


    a) the state leaves it up to the individual juristictions on what the residency requirement is.

    b) ffx co. requires proof of CURRENT county residency.
    Huh? State law preempts localities on making this crap up, and, nor ordinance for such proof or residence even exists.

  • #18
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    If the address cannot be verified and you fail to submit one of the stated documents, this may significantly delay the processing of your application or result in its denial.


    ALL APPLICANTS MUST ATTACH ONE
    OF THE FOLLOWING DOCUMENTS TO YOUR COMPLETED APPLICATION:


    1. A copy of a current utility bill, cable or telephone bill in the applicant’s name.


    1. • A copy of a current personal property tax receipt. (Note: County sticker receipt is not acceptable.)


    1. • A copy of a voter registration card.


    1. • A copy of a current lease agreement.


    seems like all is needed is to submit the above info.
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  • #19
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    fizzer wrote:


    COMPLETE AND NOTARIZED APPLICATIONS FOR RESIDENT PERMITS SHALL BE FORWARDED TO THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE COUNTY OR CITY IN WHICH THE APPLICANT RESIDES
    . THE APPLICANT SHOULD CONSULT WITH THE COURT AUTHORITIES FOR INSTRUCTION AND GUIDANCE SPECIFIC TO THEIR APPLICATION.

    i believe this is the section you are looking for, it is from the ffx section for chp.

    First Time Application:

    In addition to the completed application, you must provide the clerk with:

      1. • Two additional copies of the original completed application.


        • A self-addressed stamped envelope.

      2. • Three copies of your certificate of competence with a handgun (see p.5).

      3. • Three copies of documentation to verify residence in Fairfax County
    Thanks, fizzer.

    Lets split this discussion, or recognize that it has two separate questions.1) what is legal, and 2) what Ffx Co. wants. #1 seems to be a little different from #2. I'm thinking that#2 is an extra-legal requirement, not being statutorily required, and the formnot being able to provide legal authorization for the County to set its own requirements, which would essentially undermine pre-emption. Kinda would seem to violate the separation of powers, too--the State Police form, coming from the executive branch, authorizing a court to set restrictions or qualifications, bypassing the General Assembly.

    Separately, the information being requested of Hsmith is not residence in Ffx Co, but residence in VA. Of course, they well know that the proof of residence anywhere will also reveal whether he resides in Ffx Co. If he supplies proof of residence in VA and it shows he lives inanother county, they just tell him to apply there. Sneaky devils.

    It would seem Hsmith could go along with #2 to get along. Or he could stand his ground on 2A principle,refuse to provide the requested information, and go for Ore Tenus. I'd first check with SuperModerator Mike and see if this is the situation that he had and won.

    Also, it might be time to write a little letter to the Chief Justice of the VA Supreme Court. VCDL's website used to have a little notice to the effect that the Chief Justice was personally interested in whether citizens had trouble with their circuit courts over their CHP applications. I don't know if that notice is still on the VCDL website or whether that person is still the Chief Justice.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  • #20
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    Mike wrote:
    I can't tell whether this application has been denied or suspended - I ask the poster to please PM me so we can talk on the phone. the law does not contemplate a denial for not showing proof of residency, period.
    Check the next to last paragraph of the first document. The first paragraph of the document is what throws you. The next to last paragraph is clearer.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  • #21
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    hsmith wrote:

    Or would it be better to file a ore tenus hearing? I just desire my CCW and want it the quickest way possible and am extremely annoyed about this.
    submitting the info is the quickest and easiest method. who wants to take off work to go to court and possible have to hire an expert (lawyer) to argue your case. the end result is the same and less costly...chp in hand.

  • #22
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    I do wonder, though, if"in consultation with the VA Supreme Court" led to the phrase on the State Police form about the court authorities and "their specific application," meaning perhaps the VASC decided to give the circuit courts a little room on whether they wanted proof of jurisdiction or something else.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  • #23
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    fizzer wrote:
    hsmith wrote:

    Or would it be better to file a ore tenus hearing? I just desire my CCW and want it the quickest way possible and am extremely annoyed about this.
    submitting the info is the quickest and easiest method. who wants to take off work to go to court and possible have to hire an expert (lawyer) to argue your case. the end result is the same and less costly...chp in hand.
    or, litigate the denial to the appeals court and quash the stupid demand like we did Judge Pugh's denial of military members' applications.

  • #24
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    i believe either way, no matter how this turns out, by going to the hearing or submitting the info, hsmith should get his chp. it is up for him to choose. he has been given 2 good choices.

  • #25
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    fizzer wrote:
    i believe either way, no matter how this turns out, by going to the hearing or submitting the info, hsmith should get his chp. it is up for him to choose. he has been given 2 good choices.
    No, he could simply appeal the denial - no hearing, just a written appeal. This might have been the case we have been waiting for!

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