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Thread: Open Carry In Utah Reality

  1. #1
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    I have lived in Utah for a long time
    I took a job with the Federal Govenment in Arizona for a couple of years.

    I witnessed my first in city open carry on the highway in Arizona.
    I pulled up on a fellow motorcyclist and noticed his 9mm strapped to his leg.
    I was unfamilliar with the OC laws, so I backed the hell off, just like all the other drivers for 100 yards.
    I stopped by the local Bike shop and nearly everyone in the shop was OC by hip, leg or shoulder.
    I was educated at to the law in AZ at the shop.
    I was also very exited and thrilled.

    I moved back to Utah after 20 months and got my CCW permit.
    The more I ride my motorcycle the more I recognize why all those guys OCed. they wanted their space and they were taking it by force.
    I am nearly run off the road at least 4 times per week and I am sick of it.

    I would like to create my own little private bubble, but I am concerned about the cascading effects of open carry.

    1. Will I be (more) harrassed by the police than I already am (Bright Orange Kawasaki Z1000 with matching helmet and coat)?
    2. Are there any special rules/laws relating to the change from OC to CC?
    3. Am I asking for (more) trouble from other drivers??
    4. Am I at increased risk of being shot by a foolish noob police officer (there are many that I have encountered)?
    5. Can I anticipate being laid on the ground and handcuffed if I am pulled over?
    6. Can I anticipate rough and abusive treatment by police officers if (when) I am pulled over?

    I know there is "what should happen", but I am more interested in "what WILL happen".
    personal experience is appreciated and any other input.

    I intend to OC while on the bike and switch to CC when I step off.
    I also work in a rough area (33rd and main)

    I want to increase my personal safety.
    Help me make a wise choice.

    Thanks in advance

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    mrbigthoughguychris wrote:
    I have lived in Utah for a long time
    I took a job with the Federal Govenment in Arizona for a couple of years.

    I witnessed my first in city open carry on the highway in Arizona.
    I pulled up on a fellow motorcyclist and noticed his 9mm strapped to his leg.
    I was unfamilliar with the OC laws, so I backed the hell off, just like all the other drivers for 100 yards.
    I stopped by the local Bike shop and nearly everyone in the shop was OC by hip, leg or shoulder.
    I was educated at to the law in AZ at the shop.
    I was also very exited and thrilled.

    I moved back to Utah after 20 months and got my CCW permit.
    The more I ride my motorcycle the more I recognize why all those guys OCed. they wanted their space and they were taking it by force.
    I am nearly run off the road at least 4 times per week and I am sick of it.

    I would like to create my own little private bubble, but I am concerned about the cascading effects of open carry.

    1. Will I be (more) harrassed by the police than I already am (Bright Orange Kawasaki Z1000 with matching helmet and coat)?
    2. Are there any special rules/laws relating to the change from OC to CC?
    3. Am I asking for (more) trouble from other drivers??
    4. Am I at increased risk of being shot by a foolish noob police officer (there are many that I have encountered)?
    5. Can I anticipate being laid on the ground and handcuffed if I am pulled over?
    6. Can I anticipate rough and abusive treatment by police officers if (when) I am pulled over?

    I know there is "what should happen", but I am more interested in "what WILL happen".
    personal experience is appreciated and any other input.

    I intend to OC while on the bike and switch to CC when I step off.
    I also work in a rough area (33rd and main)

    I want to increase my personal safety.
    Help me make a wise choice.

    Thanks in advance
    ?!

  3. #3
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    /\ that is not very helpful

    I really need to know the answers to my questions

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    mrbigthoughguychris wrote:
    The more I ride my motorcycle the more I recognize why all those guys OCed. they wanted their space and they were taking it by force.
    I am nearly run off the road at least 4 times per week and I am sick of it.
    How will OC helpyou with this problem?

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    as i stated before.
    OC bikers get a bubble effect similar to the bubble that police officers get.

    I also believe that folks will remember me and remember to look for me after I pass them.

    I usually get run off the road by people that I have already passed and are repassing me at the light getting off the freeway or after a red light. It is like they forgot that I was there.
    I would like to make an impact so that they will remember that I am there.

    I am college educated (dual degrees) and I am a mortgage professional. I have a wife and 2 kids and I like to think that I make good decitions 99% of the time. I am older than 30, not some wild kid that has somthing to prove.

    I really would like answers to the questions I posed.

    the "Take it by force" comment was a mistake and folks are getting hung up on it. I hereby retract the taken by force comment and replace it with

    "....excersize their rights and therefore increase awareness of both issues (motorcycle rights and 2nd amendment rights)."

    I definitely realize this is not a joking matter and making light of the subject went wrong sorry

    wish there was a spell checker i feel naked without it.


  6. #6
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    Firefox has a spellchecker.

  7. #7
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    although spelling is definitly a problem for me, the issue is "The Reality of Utah OC"

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    mrbigthoughguychris wrote:
    1. Will I be (more) harrassed by the police than I already am (Bright Orange Kawasaki Z1000 with matching helmet and coat)?
    2. Are there any special rules/laws relating to the change from OC to CC?
    3. Am I asking for (more) trouble from other drivers??
    4. Am I at increased risk of being shot by a foolish noob police officer (there are many that I have encountered)?
    5. Can I anticipate being laid on the ground and handcuffed if I am pulled over?
    6. Can I anticipate rough and abusive treatment by police officers if (when) I am pulled over?
    1. You shouldn't receive any different treatment than you do already. I OC'ed on my bike for 2 years and never had any problems.

    2. Since you have a CCW permit, it doesn't matter if you OC or CC and the transition from one to the other is not a big deal either

    3. I noticed a few people that would see my gun and then back off, but in all honesty, most of the drivers on the road, especially the ones that already have a hard time seeing a motorcycle, are not going to even notice that have a gun....so if that is your main reason, I would consider rigging up an air horn

    4. any time an officer sees that you are armed, they are forced to go into the good guy-bad buy scenerio in their head. More and more officers are becoming used to seeing OCers but you always take that risk when you choose to protect yourself in this manner.

    5. I doubt you will ever be laid on the ground and cuffed just for carrying a gun, and if you were, you would probably have a lot of money coming your way. Unless you give them a reason to act aggressively, they are generally aware, but cordial when they are dealing with an armed person. They may remove the gun from your person, and unload it if they have reason to believe you have bad intentions, but most of the time they don't even go that far.

    6. same as #5

    Although you are completely within your rights and within the law to OC while riding, I feel your intentions are a little out of line. If you carry a gun all the time and it is always concealed, then choosing to OC when on your bike just to intimidate (that is actually what you are talking about) the other commuters is a bad decision and those type of thoughts often lead to the "road rage" drama that we are all so tired of hearing about. The last thing we need is a bunch of OCers trying to scare cars off the road because the want their own little "bubble" .

    This is not meant to take a shot at your thought process, but you said you wanted answers.....so you have my opinion and experiences. B

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    awesome thank you

    I definitly see your point.

    I do CC every day and my decition to OC would be to "intimidate" and to look cool. ( I think OC on a bike looks awesome).
    but you are right about my reasoning.

    I would never brandish my weapon or use it in a strictly intimidating fashion, so maybe this is not right for me.

    What reasons should I have for OC???

    WHy did you stop OC on your bike??

    thanks for your honest and helpful response

    my wife is losing her mind that I want to OC on the bike, but I am trying to explore my constitutional rights and figure out what is right.

    ps my father is an atty. I would just hate to have to utilize his services for some stupid situation that I got myself into. I have already sued SLCPD for excessive force once in the federal court. that was not fun.

    thanks agian

  10. #10
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    mrbigthoughguychris wrote:
    I do CC every day and my decition to OC would be to "intimidate" and to look cool. ( I think OC on a bike looks awesome).
    but you are right about my reasoning.

    What reasons should I have for OC???

    WHy did you stop OC on your bike??
    If you are seriously thinking about OC'ing to "intimidate or look cool" then you need to take a step back and reevaluate why it is you carry a firearm in the first place. That should never be a reason to carry, CC or OC. I equate this to CC'ers who, when asked for ID somewhere, they show their CFP instead of their DL. I have worked retail before, and some A-hole in a pissy mood did this to me. I told him that I didn't need to know if he was armed, I needed his DL number for his check. (Oh yeah, stop using checks! )

    Your reasons for carrying should be simple and personal. Here are a few of my favorites...

    * It is my right to do so.
    * It is a right that I have fought to keep.
    * For personal protection.
    * To help educate someone who might have a concern about OC.
    * When seconds matter, the police are minutes away.

    Also, your attitude is everything if you choose to open carry. Do you want to sound like and intimidating ******* with a gun on your thigh? This will send the wrong message. Some people might think that anyone who is armed is an unstable lunatic. Be polite, dress appropriately , and have fun! Don't give the "Brady Bunch" any reason to believe that we are just a bunch of goofs with guns.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

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    I've go to agree with Sgt. Jensen on this one. You really do need to reevaluate your reasons for OC. You said you'd never brandish your weapon or use it in a 'strictly intimidating fashion', right after you stated that intimidation was your goal.

    If I thought that I was carrying to look cool or to intentionally cause fear, I think I'd leave my gun home for a while.

    Curious... can you tell more about the incident with the SLCPD?

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    Intimidating the "yoofs" is okay by me, but you should (and I see you already have) considered that you are representing all of us at other times.

    THANK YOU for coming here. I hope you continue to post and read, and I hope your questions garner more answers.

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    I am coming across as something I am not.

    Suppose my name does not help

    I do feel strongly about exersizing my constitutional rights

    I have not directly fought (military) for this right, but I have done 2 years (20 months) of worthless govenrment service (TSA).

    I CC so I do utilize a firearm for personal protection

    (i have a thought that OC spreads my personal protection to all of those that can see my weapon)

    I live in a "safe" neighborhood, but I work in one of the rougher areas in SLC (if you can imagine) and I always leave after dark.

    I am very willing to educate anyone that might ask and to represent properly.

    I feel that I am a polite and courteous person

    I do not want to cause fear, just memory and I will not OC just to be "cool", but you have to admit it looks pretty nice strapping on your piece. it is not all for the cause.

    "intimdate" is not really the right word either

    intimidate




    verb

    To domineer or drive into compliance by the use of as threats or force, for example: bludgeon, browbeat, bulldoze, bully, bullyrag, cow, hector, menace, threaten. Informal: strong-arm
    Maybe coerce

    coerce




    verb
    1. To compel by pressure
    2. To cause (a person or thing) to act or move in spite of resistance

    Althor

    you can contact me privately and we can discuss SLCPD depending on who you are and why you want to know. I do have to protect myself at this point due to where I am in the process



    Thanks for all your help

    your challenges are allowing me to make a really ture and educated decision

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    mrbigthoughguychris wrote:
    Thanks for all your help

    your challenges are allowing me to make a really ture and educated decision
    I think that sharing ideas on a forum like this one can help in considering how to interact with people who are less familiar withor less accepting of things like OC and CC.

    Exercising our rights is a good thing and there are times when an 'inyour face'attitude is necessary. But most of the time I think that finding a way to educate and be respectful at the same time, without giving up those rights is much better.

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    SGT Jensen wrote:
    mrbigthoughguychris wrote:
    I do CC every day and my decition to OC would be to "intimidate" and to look cool. ( I think OC on a bike looks awesome).
    but you are right about my reasoning.

    What reasons should I have for OC???

    WHy did you stop OC on your bike??
    If you are seriously thinking about OC'ing to "intimidate or look cool" then you need to take a step back and reevaluate why it is you carry a firearm in the first place. That should never be a reason to carry, CC or OC. I equate this to CC'ers who, when asked for ID somewhere, they show their CFP instead of their DL. I have worked retail before, and some A-hole in a pissy mood did this to me. I told him that I didn't need to know if he was armed, I needed his DL number for his check. (Oh yeah, stop using checks! )

    Your reasons for carrying should be simple and personal. Here are a few of my favorites...

    * It is my right to do so.
    * It is a right that I have fought to keep.
    * For personal protection.
    * To help educate someone who might have a concern about OC.
    * When seconds matter, the police are minutes away.

    Also, your attitude is everything if you choose to open carry. Do you want to sound like and intimidating ******* with a gun on your thigh? This will send the wrong message. Some people might think that anyone who is armed is an unstable lunatic. Be polite, dress appropriately , and have fun! Don't give the "Brady Bunch" any reason to believe that we are just a bunch of goofs with guns.
    +100 on this one. SGT Jensenis Right.

    Since I started to carry I had to start behaving in a totally different manner than before. It doesn't matter if I CC or OC. I will ALWAYS have to be on my BEST behavior because there MAY come a time when a situation occurs and your behavior ALONE can either help you or take you down.

    Let's say that you and another person starts to be "passionately" (yelling ?),discussing something and people around you and this other individual don't know you from Adam. At this occasion you are CCing. One of the bystanders have called the local P.D cause they are "concerned". Officers arrive at the scene and starting asking Q's and people point the fingers at YOU. An officer approches and per State Law you have to tell him/her that you have a "Permit" and yes I am carrying. "Witnesses" are stating that you were "out of control".

    You get the picture...It doesn't matter wether you OC, CC or don't even carry sometimes. Your behavior alone can be your "chillies heel" because you have guns around you.

    I don't agree that this right but better safe than sorry. Try not to put yourself in a position where you might loose your right to carry your Rights.

    I OC due to conveinience. It's warm...I OC. Sometimes it depends where you might go and CC is more appropriate. Use your best judgement.

    CARRY ON:celebrate



  16. #16
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    mrbigthoughguychris wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    mrbigthoughguychris wrote:
    The more I ride my motorcycle the more I recognize why all those guys OCed. they wanted their space and they were taking it by force.
    I am nearly run off the road at least 4 times per week and I am sick of it.
    How will OC helpyou with this problem?
    as i stated before.
    OC bikers get a bubble effect similar to the bubble that police officers get.

    I also believe that folks will remember me and remember to look for me after I pass them.

    I usually get run off the road by people that I have already passed and are repassing me at the light getting off the freeway or after a red light. It is like they forgot that I was there.
    I would like to make an impact so that they will remember that I am there.
    If you're getting run off the road 4 times a week, you're doing something wrong.

    Have you taken any motorcycle instruction or safety classes?



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    HankT wrote:
    mrbigthoughguychris wrote:
    HankT wrote:
    mrbigthoughguychris wrote:
    The more I ride my motorcycle the more I recognize why all those guys OCed. they wanted their space and they were taking it by force.
    I am nearly run off the road at least 4 times per week and I am sick of it.
    How will OC helpyou with this problem?
    as i stated before.
    OC bikers get a bubble effect similar to the bubble that police officers get.

    I also believe that folks will remember me and remember to look for me after I pass them.

    I usually get run off the road by people that I have already passed and are repassing me at the light getting off the freeway or after a red light. It is like they forgot that I was there.
    I would like to make an impact so that they will remember that I am there.
    If you're getting run off the road 4 times a week, you're doing something wrong.

    Have you taken any motorcycle instruction or safety classes?

    HankT...Shut UP.

    I'm ROTFLMAO. You are Fuuuny.

    ( I don't have that Emoticon that's laying down laughing and kicking)

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    and i dont have an emoticon that is flippig hank the bird and burning down his house

    yes i have taken safety courses and i am a very concious driver, but....
    utah drivers are notorious, #1, and #2 have killed more motorcyclists per capita than any other city.
    they just chat on their phones and pull right into you, even if you are at the front third of their cars.
    then they look at you like 'sorry, but move'
    i do not get literally pushed off the road in the dirt (mr exact phrase)
    i get displaced in my lane and have to make a move.
    for those familliar i drive from 9400 s to 215 on 2000 east (highland) then i get off on 3300 s at i15 and go to main st
    it is a rough drive in the afternoon

    i ride over 15000 miles on my bike per year and the only time i have been down was when i was run down by a truck
    not fun

    so... eat me hank what do you ride??? a geo metro

    hope this is all in good fun

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    Fellow UT rider here, and I can attest to the same thing. I have quit riding except on twisty low-traffic canyon roads, because Utard drivers simply don't care that you're there. I've been run out of my lane NUMEROUS times, even in front of cops... who did nothing.

    If he hadn't been riding very defensively, and taken defensive riding classes, chances are very good that he would NOT be posting here in the first place. "If you don't ride like the cars around you are about to kill you, they are."

    Hank, You sir are an ass who knows a whole lot of nothing, it would seem, about nearly everything.

  20. #20
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    Uraijit wrote:
    Fellow UT rider here, and I can attest to the same thing. I have quit riding except on twisty low-traffic canyon roads, because Utard drivers simply don't care that you're there. I've been run out of my lane NUMEROUS times, even in front of cops...
    At least 4 times per week?

    That's 200+ times a year. A LOT of run outs.

    I wonder if toughguy ever considered the possibility that he was the common denom....

    Er, never mind.

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    HankT wrote:
    Uraijit wrote:
    Fellow UT rider here, and I can attest to the same thing. I have quit riding except on twisty low-traffic canyon roads, because Utard drivers simply don't care that you're there. I've been run out of my lane NUMEROUS times, even in front of cops...
    At least 4 times per week?

    That's 200+ times a year. A LOT of run outs.

    I wonder if toughguy ever considered the possibility that he was the common denom....

    Er, never mind.
    I have had it happen to me 3 times in the same day! I have been riding for almost 9 years. I am not inexperienced, and I am not untrained. What other drivers do has nothing to do with the skill of the rider, other driver's actions are beyond the control of a rider. I always leave myself a "cushion" and an exit from most trafic situations, so not every time I am forced out of my lane is a "near miss".

    You have no idea what his riding habits are; where he rides, distances he rides, or frequency of his riding.

    Nearly every time I get on the freeway in my giant black Tahoe, I am cut off at least once. If they don't care enough to notice a full-sized SUV, they sure as hell don't notice a motorcycle.

    As a motorcycle rider, he IS the common denominator! People just don't care about motorcycle riders on the road. Whatever they'd rather be doing takes precidence over their driving... Eg: Cell phone, makeup, morning paper, breakfast, shaving, tying tie, etc.

    Your ignorant statements lead me to believe that you yourself have never been behind a set of clipons/handlebars.


    As I stated before, you seem to know a whole lot of nothing, on a wide variety of subjects. And you don't seem to mind sharing it.

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    thanks for the back up. hank is the same kind of ahole that ran me down on the freeway because, "i should have been looking out for him" and I deserve it because i am on a flashy bike. she was dressed provacatively so she deserved to get raped

    I have had many of the same police harrassment issues as you have.

    how many times have you heard "looked like you were going a little fast there......what kind of bike is that?"

    these cops think it is cool to pull you over to chat about your bike.

    what kind of bike you ride??

    "If you don't ride like the cars around you are about to kill you, they are." is what my dad always told me from day 1 on a bike.

    Hitting the ground at 70mph is scary, getting run over is scary, getting up and being confronted by an ahole in a harley shirt getting out of his ford f-350 threatening your life (after he almost already took it) is scary.

    but i probably deserved it, i was the common denominator

    dick

    i am not the most defensive rider in the world, but i do take caution and i do not take extreme risks (splitting lanes, popping wheelies etc) there is just nothing you can do to prevent the girl (usually is a girl, sorry) who is talking on her cell eating lunch and putting on her makup while changing the cd and smoking from coming into your lane with no signal or notice over a solid white line.

    Hank may your underwear be itchy and may you never kill a motorcyclist with your car. if you see my orange bike, jacket and helmet just stay the f away from me!!! caveman hank

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    I ride a 2002 Yamaha 600-R. I'm a 600 guy myself, it's more than enough power to haul my wirey ass around, -- and in a hurry if need be.

    Have you checked out the Utah Sport Bike Association? I was planning on starting racing with them at Miller Motorsports Park in the MoM series this season, but I'm going to be testing with Las Vegas Metro PD in January, so if things work out there, I won't be racing this season afterall... I'll be sweating my ass off in the police academy for 22 weeks! Woot!

    Yeah, I've had quite a few run-ins with the cops around here too. Like I said, I've never had any tickets, because there's never any real reason to pull me over in the first place. I guess they just figure that if you own a bike, then you MUST be speeding most of the time, so they might as well pull you over. Carving your lane, while a great way to make other drivers nervous (read: notice you), is also a great excuse for the cops to harass you too. Lights, Full Gear, or anything else that might make someone notice you and not kill you, also seems to make the cops notice, and deal out swift 'justice'.

    Anyway, if you haven't checked out the UT Sport Bike Association, you should. They're a great group of guys who have their heads on straight. Until I ran across them, I thought I was the only guy who wore any gear, let alone full gear, here in UT. Most of the guys I see around here are the, Shorts, flip-flops, Corona T-Shirt, and SNELL approved Oakleys type... Gotta love that... I wonder if they get harassed by the cops as much...:quirky

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    full gear all the time (including pants)
    road rash is no joke
    126 in phoenix is pretty hot and today was cold
    year round riding is crucial
    enjoy las vegas
    phoenix and surounding cities are always highering too
    i have not met any usba guys in person i hear them head up the canyon sundays (i assume that is them)
    pm me and tell me who to contact if you dont mind

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    mrbigthoughguychris wrote:
    thanks for the back up. hank is the same kind of ahole that ran me down on the freeway because, "i should have been looking out for him" and I deserve it because i am on a flashy bike. she was dressed provacatively so she deserved to get raped

    I have had many of the same police harrassment issues as you have.

    how many times have you heard "looked like you were going a little fast there......what kind of bike is that?"

    these cops think it is cool to pull you over to chat about your bike.

    what kind of bike you ride??

    "If you don't ride like the cars around you are about to kill you, they are." is what my dad always told me from day 1 on a bike.

    Hitting the ground at 70mph is scary, getting run over is scary, getting up and being confronted by an ahole in a harley shirt getting out of his ford f-350 threatening your life (after he almost already took it) is scary.

    but i probably deserved it, i was the common denominator

    dick

    i am not the most defensive rider in the world, but i do take caution and i do not take extreme risks (splitting lanes, popping wheelies etc) there is just nothing you can do to prevent the girl (usually is a girl, sorry) who is talking on her cell eating lunch and putting on her makup while changing the cd and smoking from coming into your lane with no signal or notice over a solid white line.

    Hank may your underwear be itchy and may you never kill a motorcyclist with your car. if you see my orange bike, jacket and helmet just stay the f away from me!!! caveman hank


    Uhhhg! I finally quit riding after 30 years. It just got too dangerous.

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