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Thread: Anyone else catch this in the latest NRA American Rifleman magazine?

  1. #1
    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    I typed this article since I couldn't find a copy on-line to post:

    A woman from retired preacher Bill Willis' church invited him to take a concealed-carry class with her. Though Willis had never been particularly interested in firearms, he agreed, obtaining his permit, purchasing a .22 caliber pistol and practicing with it regularly. Not long after, Willis' wife, Judith , woke him in the middle of the might and announced there was an intruder. Willis spotted the man darting into the bathroom and quickly retrieved his Walther P22. Police say he warned the suspect three time, "Come out with your hands up. I have a gun and I will shoot." The man exited the bathroom and approached Willis, pretending to surrender, then pulled out a knife and viciously stabbed Willis' arm. Willis shot and killed the assailant. Deputies have temporarily seized Willis' pistol as evidence, but he purchased another. "It would be foolish not to be prepared," he said. (The Greenville News, Greenville SC 9/12/07)

    I have a couple of thoughts on this:

    Willis warned the man three times that he would shoot, but the man still got close enough to stab him. Maybe it's just me, but I'm telling the guy to get on the floor and not move.When you tell him to get on the ground it lets him know that advancing towards you is going to get him shot.And if he does, he'll be dead long before I have a knife sticking from my arm.

    Also, what's this about taking a man's gun whose home wasjust was broken in to? If law enforcement can take a weapon as evidence, shouldn't they be required to have a loaner, sort of like when you take your car to get worked on, the shop loans you a car until your car is fixed? It just doesn't seem right to leave a honestcitizen unarmed.

    Oh, and so much for .22 not being that lethal. I know a .45 has more stopping power, but .22 caliber will get the job done.

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    A loaner gun from the cops. That's rich. I needed a little levity, thanks, greer.

    -ljp

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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    No problem...

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    http://greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbc...WS01/309120002



    Bill Willis says he pointed his pistol at the bathroom door and yelled to the intruder who was on the other side.
    "Come out with your hands up," Willis recalled saying. "I have a gun. And I will shoot."
    Willis, 70, sat close to his wife, Judith, on Tuesday while recounting the night that would give chills to any homeowner.
    The retired preacher shot and killed a burglary suspect in his Donaldson Center-area home on Sept. 4, according to the Greenville County Sheriff’s Office.

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    Emzie Lee Smith, 54, was found dead inside 9 Lake Shore Drive with multiple gunshot wounds and a knife near his body, said Greenville County Deputy Coroner Scott Ramsey.

    Willis said he is a Bob Jones University graduate who has three children, seven grandchildren and a wife he vowed to protect when they married 45 years ago.

    The couple were in bed about 11:15 p.m. when she awakened him and said, "There’s an intruder in the house," Willis said.

    When he went to the guest bedroom and turned on the light, the door to an adjoining bathroom closed, he said.

    Willis said he went to his dresser to get his new Walther P22 pistol and pulled back the slide to load a bullet into the chamber.

    After warning the intruder three times, the man came out with his hands up, Willis said.

    The man then dropped his right hand behind his back, walked toward Willis and said, "Don’t shoot me," he recalled.

    The man pulled out a knife and stabbed Willis through the arm, he said.

    Willis said he shot about five times in the guest bedroom, twice in the hall and once in the den, where the man went down.

    "It was certainly not our intention to kill the man," Willis said. "We were just trying to defend ourselves."

    Judith Willis said she called a neighbor, who notified deputies, while her husband bled with a wound so deep his muscle was exposed.

    Bill Willis said he went to Greenville Memorial Hospital by ambulance. He needed 17 stitches in one arm and four in the other, he said.

    Deputies have said they don’t expect any charges to be filed in the case. Thirteenth Circuit Solicitor Bob Ariail said through a spokeswoman that he is waiting on their report before making a final determination.

    Bill Willis said he and his daughter recently took a concealed weapons class with a group of friends from church.

    He said he bought his gun about a month ago and practiced with it just a few days before his encounter with the intruder. But Bill Willis said he never dreamed he would have to use it the way he did.

    He said deputies have the pistol now, but he has bought a new one.

  5. #5
    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    Good find. I looked, but I didn't have any luck finding an article.

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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    It seems that Willis' daughter saved both her parent's lives by taking her dad to get his CCW.

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    dngreer wrote:
    Also, what's this about taking a man's gun whose home wasjust was broken in to? If law enforcement can take a weapon as evidence, shouldn't they be required to have a loaner, sort of like when you take your car to get worked on, the shop loans you a car until your car is fixed? It just doesn't seem right to leave a honestcitizen unarmed.
    I think that 'evidence' only exists if a crime has been committed. Homicide is not a crime (murder is). Unless the guy was suspected of murder, his gun should not have been seized.

    However, the reality is that the gun will be seized 99.9% of the time in cases like this. It's a good idea to keep at least one other gun in a secure place (safe, bank vault deposit box, etc). Or just know which friend or family member would be willing to loan you a gun until you get yours back.
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    dngreer wrote:
    If law enforcement can take a weapon as evidence, shouldn't they be required to have a loaner


    This cracked me up.

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    I'm glad Brother Willis was armed and able to neutralize the BG. I just wish he'd shot him before he attacked him with the knife. I'm not sure if SC has the "castle doctrine" but since I'm in TN and we do...I think after just his second step towards me I would have put him down then.

    As far as a loaner gun...I agree in this case there really is no reason for the cops to take the gun...all agree it was that gun that shot and killed the man...what do they need to figure out from it? But...I don't think I'dtake a loaner gun for the cops either. If I didn't have my own BUG or a friend's I could borrow...I might try to find a sympathetic gun shop that would loan me one till mine was returned.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

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    Yeah, I saw that one too. I've always believed that the .22 is useful at times, so the fact the bad guy was killed with one is not surprising. Confiscating the gun, yeah that surprised me. BAD Cop! I like the idea of loaner guns!:celebrate

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    It is a shame that he was injured, but I'm glad that Willis had a gun and killed the guy. One less crack pipin, ass whipin, motherless low life on the street.(I just watched Boondock Saints for the 10th time)

    I would be interested to know how many times Willis hit the BG before he went down. It says he fired 8 times, but I wonder if any were misses. If not, this is a great testament to the lack of efficiency in the .22lr cartridge for SD. Either way, glad Willis lived to tell the tale.

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    It says that he bought a new one, so he's not disarmed while the cops have his. Do you think he upgraded to a more effective caliber. If I had to shoot 8 times to get a BG to stop, I'd definately be thinking of how I could improve for the future.

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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    Sitrep wrote:
    It says that he bought a new one, so he's not disarmed while the cops have his.
    That's the problem. Why should he have to go spend more money on another gun just because he had to use his? (I guess it would be a good excuse to add a gun to the "arsenal" )

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    dngreer wrote:
    Sitrep wrote:
    It says that he bought a new one, so he's not disarmed while the cops have his.
    That's the problem. Why should he have to go spend more money on another gun just because he had to use his? (I guess it would be a good excuse to add a gun to the "arsenal" )
    It's a good thing his state didn't make him wait to have a "cooling off period" before being able to pick up the gun he bought.

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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    Wouldn't it begreat if every time someone shotan intruder in self defense that it were mandatory for the gun to be taken (bad gun, bad gun, don't kill people, you bad gun) and the shooter to undergo psychological evaluation and treatment? That way we could be sure the shooter/victim isn't crazy (because after all, he has a gun, he probably is crazy, right?), and he didn't really want to hurt the criminal/intruder. And also the gun would never be able to go on a shooting rampage.

    Wow, my ideas can be so amazing. I think I should call the Brady bunch and pass this idea along to them, right?

    (sarcasm ) The scary thing is that it isn't too crazy to imagine this happening someday; God forbid.


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    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    [quote][b]dngreer wrote:
    However, the reality is that the gun will be seized 99.9% of the time in cases like this.* It's a good idea to keep at least one other gun in a secure place (safe, bank vault deposit box, etc).* Or just know which friend or family member would be willing to loan you a gun until you get yours back.
    Wait, why would I have a need to buy another one?

    It sounds like they'd take ALL the guns in your house?

    :shock:
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    I think the thugs should be charged with theft for taking his weapon in this case....hell, they should have replaced his ammo AND given him a "good citizens award".
    I'm not at issue with "8 shots fired" or the fact that it was a .22....hell, I read somewhere where 4 cops fired over 120 rnds at a single guy to hit him 3 times.......it all comes down to shot placement. Anyone know how many times the guy was hit?

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    dngreer wrote:
    Wouldn't it begreat if every time someone shotan intruder in self defense that it were mandatory for the gun to be taken (bad gun, bad gun, don't kill people, you bad gun) and the shooter to undergo psychological evaluation and treatment? That way we could be sure the shooter/victim isn't crazy (because after all, he has a gun, he probably is crazy, right?), and he didn't really want to hurt the criminal/intruder. And also the gun would never be able to go on a shooting rampage.

    Wow, my ideas can be so amazing. I think I should call the Brady bunch and pass this idea along to them, right?

    (sarcasm ) The scary thing is that it isn't too crazy to imagine this happening someday; God forbid.
    I agree that one sad thing is that this could occur in the future. The other sad thing is that you would be court directed to get a mental evaluation. Do you see this possibly leading to the loss of your right to own any guns or the expense of trying to get it expunged from your record. It scares me.

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    When an incident like this happens, the firearms are seized as evidence. Justifiable or not, it is still considered a "homicide", and is treated as such. We "cops" even get our weapons taken away if WE shoot someone, until it is ruled as justified by the AG or DA. It is done in the course of a criminal investigation. If the homicide is determined to be justified, no charges are filed, and the property is returned. We "cops" don't make that determination. It is made by the DA's office. (Just a little insider information to quell the "cop bashing") Believe it or not, there are many "cops" who stand up for the Constitutional rights of all. Don't alienate us with all the "cop bashing" posts. This is a good site, and the friendlier towards us cops everyone is, the better relationship there will be between the "cops" and citizens, and the more apt we will be to share our pro-constitutional views with our fellow bretheren.

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    State Researcher dng's Avatar
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    I apologize; I didn't not mean for this thread to seem as though it is a LEO bashing thread. You're right, LEO bashing does happen on here quite often, but that wasn't my intent. All I was saying was that I hate for a citizen to be left without a firearm or to have to go buy another. There are a few people here that dislike all law enforcement, but it's a minority, and I'm not one of them.

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    AbNo wrote:
    CA_Libertarian wrote:
    dngreer wrote:
    However, the reality is that the gun will be seized 99.9% of the time in cases like this. It's a good idea to keep at least one other gun in a secure place (safe, bank vault deposit box, etc). Or just know which friend or family member would be willing to loan you a gun until you get yours back.
    Wait, why would I have a need to buy another one?

    It sounds like they'd take ALL the guns in your house?

    :shock:
    It's not uncommon for LEOs to confiscate every firearm and other 'dangerous weapon' on the premises. Just about a year ago the police raided my parents' place because my brother (still living with the parents) had allegedly received some stolen property. They took the stolen property and several items that were not stolen - including a sword, an axe handle (hillbilly home defense baseball bat), 3 rifles, a shotgun, and a handgun.

    All in all they took over 100 items (only 20 or so were the allegedly stolen property). No warrent was shown, no receipt was given, and a few items disappeared on the way to the station. Fortunately the guns were all returned. I encouraged my parents to pursue the matter legally, but they're too afraid that it wouldn't take much for these corrupt cops to fabricate evidence of crimes and put my folks in jail.
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    dngreer wrote:
    I apologize; I didn't not mean for this thread to seem as though it is a LEO bashing thread. You're right, LEO bashing does happen on here quite often, but that wasn't my intent. All I was saying was that I hate for a citizen to be left without a firearm or to have to go buy another. There are a few people here that dislike all law enforcement, but it's a minority, and I'm not one of them.
    Appreciated. As I am new here, it'll take some getting used to I guess.

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    It's not uncommon for LEOs to confiscate every firearm and other 'dangerous weapon' on the premises. Just about a year ago the police raided my parents' place because my brother (still living with the parents) had allegedly received some stolen property. They took the stolen property and several items that were not stolen - including a sword, an axe handle (hillbilly home defense baseball bat), 3 rifles, a shotgun, and a handgun.

    All in all they took over 100 items (only 20 or so were the allegedly stolen property). No warrent was shown, no receipt was given, and a few items disappeared on the way to the station. Fortunately the guns were all returned. I encouraged my parents to pursue the matter legally, but they're too afraid that it wouldn't take much for these corrupt cops to fabricate evidence of crimes and put my folks in jail.
    You base this comment on your 1 incident with the police? Speaking as an LEO, it IS uncommon for us to seize all weapons unless it is a domestic violence incident, or they are believed to be stolen property. I would guess your parents had no records of the weapons ownership, and as the police already seized stolen property in the house, it is standard procedure to insure the weapons are also not stolen. As far as a warrant goes, if the police are invited in, or otherwise legally on the property, they don't need one. No, we don't just show up and walk into people's houses and steal stuff... Your brother had stolen property, which is illegal. As far as no reciept being given, I can only speak for my department, we don't give reciepts for stolen property, we usually arrest those in possession of it. If the items in question were not stolen, a reciept should have been given. Your parents could have asked for a reciept at time of seizure. FYI-- the Constitution only forbids UNREASONABLE searches and seizures, not all of them. It is not unreasonable to, when recovering other stolen property, to check firearms, TVs, VCRs, ATVs, vehicles, and such to see if they are stolen. I know it's hard for you, but look at it from a cops point of view. Were one of those guns mine, I'd be happy they were seized...

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    I don't have any records of weapon ownership, Grog.

    Further more, I have to keep a few of my buddy Shayne's guns (including two family heirloom pieces) at my house.

    Does that mean if I shoot some idiot SOB that comes into my house trying to rob the place that both he and I, as legal gun owners are going to have a bunch of missing weapons on our hands?

    And by "missing", I mean "unrightfully seized".
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Yes, that means that, until the homicide is ruled justified, your guns will be seized. Just because a homicide is justified, does not mean an investigation is not done. I'm sure if someone shot you, you would want us to do the same thing, until a ruling is made.

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