Talking to a mall ninja

Agent 47 · Nov 19, 2007

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So today I got to talk with a security guard from the Alderwood mall, He has worked at the Alderwood mall for a couple months and worked for the Everett mall for a couple years before that.

Our conversation centered around open carry as I asked him if there were any policies in place either at the Everett or Alderwood malls. He kind of avoided this as a direct question throughout our entire conversation but related a story from a few weeks ago that a large man OC'ing a small framed Glock had been in the Alderwood mall and they had called the police on him as it is against their policy to confront anyone with a weapon. They saw the police approach the individual and thought the evildoer was getting what he deserved until several minutes later that criminal went walking right past my buddy the security guard still happily carrying his Glock and continuing to enjoy his shopping experience, completely unmolested. Well mr. mall ninja made a beeline to the police officers who promptly informed him that the man was breaking no laws he was well within his rights and to please not call them again unless it was a real emergency. Well now (as mr. mall ninja proudly told me ) The mall director is having a meeting with the Lynwood Chief of police today to determine what the mall can legally do to prevent people being able to openly carry inside the mall.

This part concerns me, He said that with the holiday season approaching the idea of the panic that an OC'er would cause in a crowded mall is simply to much for the directors ( and security staff ) to deal with and they are trying their very best to put an end to this heinous practice. It was about this time that I informed him that I am one of those crazy nut jobs that he was referring to and the conversation kind of died out reel quick. I think ( If indeed the Alderwood mall is a privately owned mall like he said and the possibility of whomever being able to implement a mall-wide ban of guns is a real possibility ) that someone should convey to them that their individual store owners may not like being painted with that brush as it will lead to several law abiding, money spending citizens to boycott all stores within the mall and given the 13% +- population in this state of CPL holding shoppers that would constitute a dramatic loss in business.

gregma · Nov 19, 2007

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Agent 47 wrote:

that someone should convey to them that their individual store owners may not like being painted with that brush as it will lead to several law abiding, money spending citizens to boycott all stores within the mall and given the 13% +- population in this state of CPL holding shoppers that would constitute a dramatic loss in business.

And all that will have to happen is to get this person a list of all the malls who have tried this practice of disarming it's customers and gotten into serious financial trouble due to boycotts so recinded that policy. Let's see... Nope, I can't think of one. Southcenter who bans weapons is doing just fine. Auburn "super" mall bans weapons is doing just fine. Might be a tough sell with that threat.

I'm sure you and I and several OC'ers will boycott. But the rest will just say "concealed means concealed" and go anyway. It's a losing battle.

openryan · Nov 19, 2007

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gregma wrote:

Agent 47 wrote:

that someone should convey to them that their individual store owners may not like being painted with that brush as it will lead to several law abiding, money spending citizens to boycott all stores within the mall and given the 13% +- population in this state of CPL holding shoppers that would constitute a dramatic loss in business.

Click to expand...

And all that will have to happen is to get this person a list of all the malls who have tried this practice of disarming it's customers and gotten into serious financial trouble due to boycotts so recinded that policy. Let's see... Nope, I can't think of one. Southcenter who bans weapons is doing just fine. Auburn "super" mall bans weapons is doing just fine. Might be a tough sell with that threat.

I'm sure you and I and several OC'ers will boycott. But the rest will just say "concealed means concealed" and go anyway. It's a losing battle.

Gregma is right.

How many of that 13% actually carries all the time, and would be willing not to have those designer clothes. The people who do not carry all the time, and simply have the CPL to carry @ work, or while hiking, or being in a bad area... will not have a problem complying with disarming. Or they will just conceal and go in anyway.

A financial boycott will be a hard sell, and will most likely fail.

Nebulis01 · Nov 19, 2007

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Agent 47 wrote:

So today I got to talk with a security guard from the Alderwood mall, He has worked at the Alderwood mall for a couple months and worked for the Everett mall for a couple years before that.

Our conversation centered around open carry as I asked him if there were any policies in place either at the Everett or Alderwood malls. He kind of avoided this as a direct question throughout our entire conversation but related a story from a few weeks ago that a large man OC'ing a small framed Glock had been in the Alderwood mall and they had called the police on him as it is against their policy to confront anyone with a weapon. They saw the police approach the individual and thought the evildoer was getting what he deserved until several minutes later that criminal went walking right past my buddy the security guard still happily carrying his Glock and continuing to enjoy his shopping experience, completely unmolested. Well mr. mall ninja made a beeline to the police officers who promptly informed him that the man was breaking no laws he was well within his rights and to please not call them again unless it was a real emergency. Well now (as mr. mall ninja proudly told me ) The mall director is having a meeting with the Lynwood Chief of police today to determine what the mall can legally do to prevent people being able to openly carry inside the mall.

This part concerns me, He said that with the holiday season approaching the idea of the panic that an OC'er would cause in a crowded mall is simply to much for the directors ( and security staff ) to deal with and they are trying their very best to put an end to this heinous practice. It was about this time that I informed him that I am one of those crazy nut jobs that he was referring to and the conversation kind of died out reel quick. I think ( If indeed the Alderwood mall is a privately owned mall like he said and the possibility of whomever being able to implement a mall-wide ban of guns is a real possibility ) that someone should convey to them that their individual store owners may not like being painted with that brush as it will lead to several law abiding, money spending citizens to boycott all stores within the mall and given the 13% +- population in this state of CPL holding shoppers that would constitute a dramatic loss in business.

I am that large individual aka "evildoer"! And it's not a small framed Glock! It's a Springfield XD .40 4" Service

I sincereley hope they don't prevent OC, as they will lose the business of myself and many others during the upcoming holiday season.

American Rattlesnake · Nov 20, 2007

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Agent 47 wrote:

They saw the police approach the individual and thought the evildoer was getting what he deserved until several minutes later that criminal went walking right past my buddy the security guard still happily carrying his Glock and continuing to enjoy his shopping experience, completely unmolested. Well mr. mall ninja made a beeline to the police officers who promptly informed him that the man was breaking no laws he was well within his rights and to please not call them again unless it was a real emergency.

Now that is funny!!

amlevin · Nov 20, 2007

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After their meeting, the first thing the Mall should do is fire all their security bozo's and hire some with intelligence.

Bear 45/70 · Nov 20, 2007

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amlevin wrote:

After their meeting, the first thing the Mall should do is fire all their security bozo's and hire some with intelligence.

They can't do that........on one with intelligence will work for them at the wage scale.

Citizen · Nov 20, 2007

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American Rattlesnake wrote:

Now that is funny!!

Here's a couple.

How can you tell Virginia Citizens Defense League is visiting the General Assembly office building on Lobby Day? BEEP, BEEP, BEEP. (Metal detector)

Last January at the General Assembly building, a fella walked right past the scanner belt without depositing anything for x-ray.A lady asked, "Why does he get to go right through?" Answer, "Because he has a gun." :what:

BluesBear · Nov 21, 2007

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Agent 47 wrote:

...and they had called the police on him as it is against their policy to confront anyone with a weapon.

You know what you call an unarmed security guard. (well besides useless)

An usher.

Johnny Law · Nov 21, 2007

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BluesBear wrote:

Agent 47 wrote:

...and they had called the police on him as it is against their policy to confront anyone with a weapon.

Click to expand...

You know what you call an unarmed security guard. (well besides useless)

An usher.

Agreed....... Unfortunately the majority ofarmed security guards are highly undertrained, and fall into the same category as bounty hunters......DANGEROUS!

Agent 47 · Nov 21, 2007

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Oh, come on JL you don't like bounty hunters ?? but Dog is so cool.

Trigger Dr · Nov 21, 2007

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Agreed....... Unfortunately the majority ofarmed security guards are highly undertrained, and fall into the same category as bounty hunters......DANGEROUS!

and ROOKIE COPS

Jim

Johnny Law · Nov 21, 2007

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Trigger Dr wrote:

Agreed....... Unfortunately the majority ofarmed security guards are highly undertrained, and fall into the same category as bounty hunters......DANGEROUS!

and ROOKIE COPS

Jim

Even rookies have completed a lot of training, not only Academy, but Departmental as well. They then have several FTO's and have to prove themselves capable of doing the job properly and safely, or they are washed out.

sv_libertarian · Nov 21, 2007

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Johnny Law wrote:

Even rookies have completed a lot of training, not only Academy, but Departmental as well. They then have several FTO's and have to prove themselves capable of doing the job properly and safely, or they are washed out.

You mean like that guy in Wisconsin? Or David Brame? Oh wait, Brame wasn't a rookie. Just a loony. You know as well as I do there is a HUGE difference between the way a rookie cop acts and an experienced cop acts. One has more real world experience, and the other one has only what he has read in a book or taught in a classroom. You also know as well as I do that the mindset of a rookie cop is different from an experienced cop. Heck the mindset of a rookie on any job is different that an experienced person. The rookie does everything "by the book" is often "gung ho" to prove he/she can do the job, etc...

I am not anti cop. I am anti stupid. I am also anti infringing on rights. Make of this what you will. And if you read my encounter with local cops you should also see how I behave to them. Make of my actions what you will. But at least realize the difference between experienced and rookie.

Johnny Law · Nov 21, 2007

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sv_libertarian wrote:

Johnny Law wrote:

Even rookies have completed a lot of training, not only Academy, but Departmental as well. They then have several FTO's and have to prove themselves capable of doing the job properly and safely, or they are washed out.

Click to expand...

You mean like that guy in Wisconsin? Or David Brame? Oh wait, Brame wasn't a rookie. Just a loony. You know as well as I do there is a HUGE difference between the way a rookie cop acts and an experienced cop acts. One has more real world experience, and the other one has only what he has read in a book or taught in a classroom. You also know as well as I do that the mindset of a rookie cop is different from an experienced cop. Heck the mindset of a rookie on any job is different that an experienced person. The rookie does everything "by the book" is often "gung ho" to prove he/she can do the job, etc...

I am not anti cop. I am anti stupid. I am also anti infringing on rights. Make of this what you will. And if you read my encounter with local cops you should also see how I behave to them. Make of my actions what you will. But at least realize the difference between experienced and rookie.

I'm not disputing that there is a difference in mindset. Rookies do have quite a bit of field training (in car with veteran Officer) before they are ever released on their own. Depending on where they work, they may have faced some challenging calls during this time,or maybe not. The street truly is the best teacher.

Also, hiring standards are different from Dept. toDept., but Departments strive to hire the best they can, and usually you can find one qualified person in approx 100 applicants if you're lucky.

expvideo · Nov 21, 2007

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From my experience, I'd rather deal with a rookie. Sometimes they're on a power trip, but sometimes they are new enough to still care about why they became a cop, and might actually want to help people. Call them naive, but I'd rather talk to the cop that naively hopes to make a difference, than the realist cop that doesn't care anymore.

Not trying to paint all seasoned veteran officers with the same brush, this doesn't apply to everybody. I've met plenty of good rookies and plenty of good vets. Unfortunately I've met a lot of bad ones too, on both ends of tenure.

Agent 47 · Nov 21, 2007

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I do see a lot of veteran cops who you can kind of tell are a little burned out on the job and just seem pissed off at the world and honestly at that point they no longer have any business in uniform.A greater number of experienced officers, however,have mellowed out and are quite pleasant to deal with.

BluesBear · Nov 21, 2007

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DISCLAIMER: First of all this, is directed at no one person in particular. Every personal opinion expressed hereinis directed to the subject at large. NO artificial dyes or colourings were used and no aminals were injured during the making of this post. However some toes will probably feel stepped on. Tough.

expvideo wrote:

Call them naive, but I'd rather talk to the cop that naively hopes to make a difference, than the realist cop that doesn't care anymore.

Not trying to paint all seasoned veteran officers with the same brush, this doesn't apply to everybody. I've met plenty of good rookies and plenty of good vets. Unfortunately I've met a lot of bad ones too, on both ends of tenure.

Okay now you've done it. I wasn't going to say anything but now I gotta. I take offense at the phrase, realist cop that doesn't care anymore. As a former realist cop, I WAS the one who truly DID care. In my experience it's the realist cops that DO make a difference. It's the self-righteous, omnipotent and (yes, I'll say it) fascist cops that are the problem.

MOST cops are good decent people who honestly try to make a difference. However when you have a department with low morale and no confidence in their upper command and local legal system, things tend to deteriorate faster than normal.

It's been almost 20 years now since I did the job and to be honest I haven't seen much of an improvement in the attitude of the rank and file but I have seen a shocking decline in integrity of the upper echelons. But I must admit that I am getting sick and tired of so many threads here turning into a badge versus constitution pissing match.

I"ve seen just as many bad cops as anyone. Hell's Bells™ I've even worked with more than a few. I've known lazy cops who just wouldn't do the job. I've known stupid cops who simply could not do the job. I've known cops who abused the law for their own satisfaction and I've known cops who misused the law just because they could. They taught me how NOT toact.And yes I made damn sure that a couple of them found alternate careers. But, most of the people I knew and worked with were fine upstanding decent human beings. Sadly the years take their toll and attitudes can change. Like any job after a time people can lose their inspiration. Apathy is as rampant as alcoholism. The instance of alcohol abuse is over twice as high as the average person. The divorce rate among cops is astounding. Even on a good day it's a tough job. Most burn out long before they turn out.

Some of y'all (on both sides) have a huge chip on your shoulder. Here's a news flash for you all. It's a cow chip and it's starting to stink! The sad fact is that there are folks on this forum who do paint with a wide brush. But as any painter will tell you, the bigger the brush the easier it is to make a mistake and the more likely you are to splatter some of that paint back onto yourself.

And while I'm on a roll, drop that, you work for us, we pay your salary crap. You never paid my salary. You paid taxes and a very small amount of that money was then used to pay my salary. AndI didn't work for you. I worked for those bastard politicians that YOU caused to get elected. I was paid to do what THEY told me to do. As I have said before on this and other forums, I doubt that I ever prevented a single crime. Sure I stopped a few in the act, but except for some stake outs, it was just blind luck. My real "duty" was to show up AFTER somethinghad happened and write reports about it. Or to be a marriage referee. The fact that anything was ever done in your favor or for your benefitwas due totally to my personal integrity and dedication to the concept of right and wrong. And let me tell you, some of y'all got much better treatment than you deserved. You have to understand, I'm a dinosaur. I served in the '70s and '80 back when the term f**kin' Pig was #1 on the hit parade. When you holler pig don't be surprised when someone serves you pork. It was true then and it's true today.

However, if you have an experience with a bad cop, (as opposed to a bad experience with a good cop - there IS a difference)get on here and tell us his or her name. Get the word out. Call them every filthy name you can think of. File a complaint with their department or jurisdiction and then tell us about that too. Fix the problem. Name names. We all want to know. Civilians will know who to look out for and other cops will know who to watch out for. Nobody likes a bad cop (except other bad cops and even then it's 50/50) Do your best to get them educated or expelled. But please STOP lumping all cops together. Get off your soap box. Single out the bad ones and leave the rest the hell alone.

Now IF and when that happens (I'm not holding my breath) then perhaps the cops on this board will stop taking such a defensive posture against everyone else. I am also getting sick and tired of all this "If I see you do that" or "That's not the way it's done on my beat". Give it a rest people. If you just want to showcase your bravado or tell war stories, there are much better forums out there for that. And why do most of y'allhave to choose a screen name that tells everybodyyou're a cop? Do you think it will make us treat you with any more respect? You don't respect a person because he or she wears a badge or uniform. You respect the badge/uniformbecause of the quality of people who wear IT. And let me say this, some of y'all are causing more tarnish than shine.

NowI do applaud the real police officers who come here. The realist cops, who come here as equals, just wanting to interact as a regular person. Because friends and neighbors (and brothers of the Blue and Brown), in here that's all any of us are. Just regular people. But honestly, the way some of you "supposed" officers act in this forum, the way you constantly want to argue and bicker and pound your chest, leads me to question just how cool, calm and collected you are on the street. For if you're really that thin skinned out there, you are a danger to yourself, your partner, your department,as well as everyone else. Maybe you should consider a different line of work? Perhaps the Post Office? They have uniforms. In the mean time you're just adding fuel to the us-vs-them wildfire.

Not all cops are ignorant thugs and not all civilians are uncaptured criminals. I've seen life from both sides of the shield. I've seen the elephant more than once, and lived to tell the tails. I did some things I am extremely proud of. I've also done some things that I can't exactly brag about. I've watched people come into this world and I've watched some leave it.(both are kinda gross if you ask me) But all in all,I'm proud of the years I served. I met a hell of a lot of good people. I even managed to put a few bad guys away.

It's not just National Ammo Week it's also Thanksgiving. So how about everybody put away their paint brushes and just be thankful for what we have. Personally I'm very thankful this forum exists. And extremely thankful I didn't have some of you for a partner and that some of you never lived in my city.

SicSemperTyrannis · Nov 21, 2007

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Well said. Thank you, BlueBear (also, you're a very good writer). Ibelieve what you wrote deserves wider exposure, on other threads. Just my opinion.

Ajetpilot · Nov 21, 2007

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Very nicely said, BluesBear. Thank you!

Talking to a mall ninja

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