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Talking to a mall ninja

Trigger Dr

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What Blues Bear said...

Also the biggest thing I had seen in my 27 year career was the apathy instilled in the "new Rookie"by the "Old Rookie" who was the FTO, was his training method. It went something like this

HERE'S THE CAR, THIS IS THE PHONE, HERE'S YOUR GUN, YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN

Yes this does happen only too often. Thanks BluesBear, I would have liked to partner with you.

Jim
 

Pa. Patriot

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Trigger Dr wrote:
HERE'S THE CAR, THIS IS THE PHONE, HERE'S YOUR GUN, YOU'RE ON YOUR OWN
Yep, scary. Years ago, being directly involved in LEO force on force/environmental awareness training, I was highly disturbed when some of these fast-track LEO would show up and actualy have a chip on their shoulder in regards to thinkning they already "knew everytihing"... They we're usually humbled within the first 15 minutes of instruction ;)
 

BluesBear

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Pa. Patriot wrote:
BluesBear wrote:
But I must admit that I am getting sick and tired of so many threads here turning into a badge versus constitution pissing match.


Hmmmm. Fair enough... but which party initiated the issue in the first place? The badge or the citizen defendng the constitution?

After you 've been soaked by the splatter does it really matter who unzipped first?
 

expvideo

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All right, BluesBear, I am happy to say that I am wrong. It is very refreshing to hear that veteran realist police officers do care about helping people. I think I may have gone a little overboard in that post, but thank you for taking the time to post what you did. Knowing that there are police officers that feel that way is a breath of fresh air.

I know my view of police officers is tainted and I have a bad attitude toward them. It's prejudice and I need to work on it. My several bad experiences are not justification to make blanket statements like that. I really do appreciate what police officers do, and I really am greatful for their courage to get out there and try to make a difference. There are a few bad apples, like any profession, and I've met some of them. It's frustrating to have to go to court and fight a charge that isn't even illegal, or read a police report that blatantly lies about the situation, and eventually it wears one down. I shouldn't take my frustration on a few bad cops out on all of the people that in all reality are heros that strap on a duty belt every day, knowing that they will be putting their lives on the line for some unappriciative people who would paint them all as criminals. I was out of line. I hope you can accept my appology.
 

BluesBear

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Dude, you have absolutely nothing to appologize for.

You went through a shitstorm. Youhave a right to be bitter. Hopefully now you'll just focus that bitterness on those who really deserve it. Someday we'll sit down over some sweet tea and cornbread and you can tell me the entire story. I'd like to understand more.
 

.45lovinchick

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So Mr. Sams Gunshop employee I don't think that your friend the mall ninja would have said it like that. Does he like guns? As for the policy on not confronting people with weapons because of being unarmed security, do you think that prevented him from wanting to make contact with the gentleman? I have worked security for 8 years and I understand having to follow policy regardless of your personal feelings on a subject. When you wrote about the mall having a meeting with the police are you sure he said the goal was to prevent OC"ing? It could been about finding an understanding between policy and law and not infringing on peoples rights. I'm all for the legal right of open carrying, but can you see how it might make some people who are not educated on the subject a little nervous? The mall had what some 30,000 people there on friday? As for a beeline for the police, if mall security was not educated on the law of open carry don't you think they were a little confused. Thinking maybe he was an off duty officer or something? I can't help but be a little offended about the comment on unarmed security being useless. I worked as a security officer for years and with some companies all there is is unarmed security. Are you saying there is no need for it? As for changing the topic when you mentioned you were an OCer maybe he didn't want to offend you, he was probably still surpirsed about the law, and may have said a comment on it that he didn't want you to take wrong. Like I said I am an OCer myself (you should see the looks you get wearing a tank top with nice tits and a .45) but I think you may have taken his conversation out of context. And if he is your friend why don't you clarify the points with him before posting them. :celebrate
 

Bear 45/70

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.45lovinchick wrote:
So Mr. Sams Gunshop employee I don't think that your friend the mall ninja would have said it like that. Does he like guns? As for the policy on not confronting people with weapons because of being unarmed security, do you think that prevented him from wanting to make contact with the gentleman? I have worked security for 8 years and I understand having to follow policy regardless of your personal feelings on a subject. When you wrote about the mall having a meeting with the police are you sure he said the goal was to prevent OC"ing? It could been about finding an understanding between policy and law and not infringing on peoples rights. I'm all for the legal right of open carrying, but can you see how it might make some people who are not educated on the subject a little nervous? The mall had what some 30,000 people there on friday? As for a beeline for the police, if mall security was not educated on the law of open carry don't you think they were a little confused. Thinking maybe he was an off duty officer or something? I can't help but be a little offended about the comment on unarmed security being useless. I worked as a security officer for years and with some companies all there is is unarmed security. Are you saying there is no need for it? As for changing the topic when you mentioned you were an OCer maybe he didn't want to offend you, he was probably still surpirsed about the law, and may have said a comment on it that he didn't want you to take wrong. Like I said I am an OCer myself (you should see the looks you get wearing a tank top with nice tits and a .45) but I think you may have taken his conversation out of context. And if he is your friend why don't you clarify the points with him before posting them. :celebrate
What planet have you been living on? A guy openly carrying a gun (if he was a cop, off duty or otherwise, why would the ninja call the cops?)isn't gonna be a problem. It's the gang bangers, wannbes and crazieswho all conceal until they commit a second crime. As to unarmed security people, they satisfy an insurance requirement, but make the mall safer? Not one whit, none, nada, zero........ If all the ninjado is call a cop it the person in question is armed, then anyone can do that, even a child. Mall security is like airport security, all show and makes no one safer.
 

.45lovinchick

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not everyone is as informed about guns and the laws as we are. They probably followed procedure as there jobs dictate, it doesn't mean that the mall ninja didn't want to ask the man personally but for the sake of a paycheck and the ability for the need to retain a job left that part to the police. And for the sake of it not all sane people are the ones open carry, the tacoma mall shooting don't think that guy concealed. Properly trained security gaurds do make a difference whether you think so or not, on that subject I feel you are the one uneducated.
 

Bear 45/70

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.45lovinchick wrote:
not everyone is as informed about guns and the laws as we are. They probably followed procedure as there jobs dictate, it doesn't mean that the mall ninja didn't want to ask the man personally but for the sake of a paycheck and the ability for the need to retain a job left that part to the police. And for the sake of it not all sane people are the ones open carry, the tacoma mall shooting don't think that guy concealed. Properly trained security gaurds do make a difference whether you think so or not, on that subject I feel you are the one uneducated.
I've said it before and I'll say it again; the Tacoma Mall was a known gang hangout and unasfe place many, many years before that shooting. I seem to remember he didn't OC until he opened up, but then he never acted normal either and nobody tried to stop him before he started shooting and the mall ninjas all went "poof" when the shooting started, so explain how the ninjas made the mall safer that day.
 

heresolong

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Is it really considered "open carry" when you are pointing and shooting? I would maintain that we have clearly distinguished between the two here on numerous occasions.
 

compmanio365

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.45lovinchick wrote:
not everyone is as informed about guns and the laws as we are. They probably followed procedure as there jobs dictate, it doesn't mean that the mall ninja didn't want to ask the man personally but for the sake of a paycheck and the ability for the need to retain a job left that part to the police. And for the sake of it not all sane people are the ones open carry, the tacoma mall shooting don't think that guy concealed. Properly trained security gaurds do make a difference whether you think so or not, on that subject I feel you are the one uneducated.

In the Tacoma Mall shooting, the guy had his rifle hid under his trenchcoat before he opened up. And as it has been said, where was the security at that point to make the mall "safer"? Oh yeah, they all disappeared. Give me a break. Mall security exists to harass and make a phone call to the real cops and that's about it.

You know how much they wanted to pay me as unarmed security? Not much more than minimum wage. Do you trust your life to an unarmed, minimum wage employee that has no benefits or reason to be committed to their job? I sure as hell don't. I knew I wasn't taking that job and being sent to the Port of Tacoma to get shot at every night, for minimum wage, and not being able to be armed while I was doing it. I was going to be nothing more than a walking, talking target, which is all unarmed security is. End of story.
 

joshmmm

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I have to disagree. Unarmed security is very useful to the businesses.

Armed security makes places safer. Unarmed security looks for, reports, and deters property crime and shoplifting. They have different uses/purposes.

Obviously, mall owners are more concerned with graffiti, shoplifting, etc. A few rare cases of violence aren't going to hurt their pockets near as much as constant property crime. They focus on the bottom line. The bottom line for them is protecting profits, and unarmed security is cheaper and just as effective as armed security for these purposes. They figure the cheap, unarmed security can just call the well-trained, but free, armed security(the police.)

Both sides of this silly issue are arguing whether unarmed security is useless. One side is recognizing the limitations of unarmed security while not acknowledging its usefulness. The other side is only recognizing its usefulness while ignoring its limitations. If either side was to look at this from both angles, each would see that his/her point is not contradicted by the other's. (except for the absolute statements that are just plain silly. ie: unarmed security is absolutely worthless, period.)
 

Bear 45/70

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joshmmm wrote:
I have to disagree. Unarmed security is very useful to the businesses.

Armed security makes places safer. Unarmed security looks for, reports, and deters property crime and shoplifting. They have different uses/purposes.

Obviously, mall owners are more concerned with graffiti, shoplifting, etc. A few rare cases of violence aren't going to hurt their pockets near as much as constant property crime. They focus on the bottom line. The bottom line for them is protecting profits, and unarmed security is cheaper and just as effective as armed security for these purposes. They figure the cheap, unarmed security can just call the well-trained, but free, armed security(the police.)

Both sides of this silly issue are arguing whether unarmed security is useless. One side is recognizing the limitations of unarmed security while not acknowledging its usefulness. The other side is only recognizing its usefulness while ignoring its limitations. If either side was to look at this from both angles, each would see that his/her point is not contradicted by the other's. (except for the absolute statements that are just plain silly. ie: unarmed security is absolutely worthless, period.)

Isn't "unarmed security" an oxymoron?

No matter how you justify unarmed security, they make nothing secure for the customers and uniformed unarmed security is worthless at spotting anything except each other.
 

BluesBear

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Perhaps the PC term "Loss Prevention Employee" is a better title than security guard? An unarmed person cannot make any place secure, (unless you defination of secure area is to lock the doors AFTER a danger has appeared) they can only serve to create an ILLUSION of being secure. Neither are they able to guard very much. Another good name for them could possibly be "witness"?

And I don't carehow nice your tits are, they can't do anything to ensure MY security.
 
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